First Day - Arboreal Hide?

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...ArborealBP.jpg

I spent a week dialing in temps/heat in my T8 to be perfect for the arrival of my first little girl today. Then, after scoping out every nook and cranny, she settled on wedging herself between the light fixture and the back wall. So much for my hard work and expensive Herpstat/UTH getting the floor of the cage all set to go! :rolleyes:

According to my temp gun, nothing on that fixture is over 96 degrees so I'm not necessarily worried about her getting burned (should I be?). The lights are on a 12 on/12 off schedule, so she'll likely move herself down tonight when the lights turn off and take up a more traditional post in one of the two hides I've provided for her. Should I go ahead and pull her down from there anyway, or just let her do her thing and be hands-off with her like I had originally planned.

Thanks for your help in advance!

Eric

That is pretty funny... Like kids playing with the box the expensive toy came in. She's probably alright up there, just keep watching her.

Hey Eric,

Why are you using a light inside her tank? Ball Pythons do not require more than the usual daylight that they receive from the room (assuming there is a window or two in the room)

Anything above 91-92 degrees is completely unnecessary for a healthy ball python. Their natural environment in Africa rarely gets over that. You are definitely risking it.

She does not feel secure in that large tank, thus her wedging herself in that small space. Throw some crumpled up newspaper in there to help clutter it for a few weeks until she relaxes, and get her away from that light immediately. Show her the hide a few times until she figures it out.

Be sure your UTH is properly controlled by your herpstat. The UTH will get well over 100 degrees if it's not properly controlled. Those things have a mind of their own brother, so just be careful with it.

It might not be secure enough for her on the floor of the cage. Even with proper hides (which are unfamiliar) she might be scared so she went somewhere she felt safe. Let her come down on her own but maybe scrunch up some newspaper and put it along the edges to try and clutter it up some. A lot of people have BPs that climb and wedge into weird places even with perfect husbandry but it doesn't hurt to rule out the possibility that she's feeling insecure first.

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Originally Posted by j. cooper

Hey Eric,

Why are you using a light inside her tank? Ball Pythons do not require more than the usual daylight that they receive from the room (assuming there is a window or two in the room)

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People aren't allowed to light the insides of their enclosures now? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

People aren't allowed to light the insides of their enclosures now? :rolleyes:

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Sure! If you wish to burn them! I don't recommend any kind of 'light' to be INSIDE the enclosure, ever.

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Originally Posted by j. cooper

Hey Eric,

Why are you using a light inside her tank? Ball Pythons do not require more than the usual daylight that they receive from the room (assuming there is a window or two in the room)

Anything above 91-92 degrees is completely unnecessary for a healthy ball python. Their natural environment in Africa rarely gets over that. You are definitely risking it.

She does not feel secure in that large tank, thus her wedging herself in that small space. Throw some crumpled up newspaper in there to help clutter it for a few weeks until she relaxes, and get her away from that light immediately. Show her the hide a few times until she figures it out.

Be sure your UTH is properly controlled by your herpstat. The UTH will get well over 100 degrees if it's not properly controlled. Those things have a mind of their own brother, so just be careful with it.

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Since when can you not use a light? :confusd::confusd: It isn't necessary, but it won't hurt. Its a fluorescent fixture, they don't get that hot.

No, he is not "definitely risking it". 96º is nothing.

Its day one. No snake feels secure on day one. She will come down eventually.

He already stated he has spent a considerable amount of time dialing in the thermostat. You don't need to tell the OP what they already know.

Ok... if something isn't necessary, then why would someone use it? Doesn't make sense to me... but people will do what they want.

He asked for advice, and I gave him my PROFESSIONAL advice. But what do I know... only been doing this for 20 years or so, successfully.

Do what you want people, but no person of sane mind should ever recommend putting any kind of light INSIDE an enclosure with their snake. Put it on top, outside of the tank, if you want to use a light.

As far as telling him what he already knows... I was reiterating the importance of controlling a UTH.

Moving onto threads where people appreciate good advice...

Thanks.

I bet someone else here has been using lights in their cages for over 20 years, successfully.

I personally like the way my lights present my cages and believe you can have more than one way to do things.

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Originally Posted by j. cooper

Ok... if something isn't necessary, then why would someone use it? Doesn't make sense to me... but people will do what they want.

He asked for advice, and I gave him my PROFESSIONAL advice. But what do I know... only been doing this for 20 years or so, successfully.

Do what you want people, but no person of sane mind should ever recommend putting any kind of light INSIDE an enclosure with their snake. Put it on top, outside of the tank, if you want to use a light.

As far as telling him what he already knows... I was reiterating the importance of controlling a UTH.

Moving onto threads where people appreciate good advice...

Thanks.

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Look, everyone does things different ways. Some people like to have viewing lights in their display enclosures. A fluorescent fixture will not burn your snake. Promise.

I believe that you have experience. No one questioned that.

Clearly the OP did their homework, but you still want to reiterate it? doesn't make sense to me... but people will do what they want. :rolleyes:

Thanks, everyone! There really is no need to get defensive - I appreciate every bit of advice, as there are many more years of experience on these boards than I could ever fathom.

Before I continue, I used my wife coming home as an excuse to remove her from her location (to show her off for a minute or two) and then put her back right in front of her hot side hide, which she immediately disappeared into happily. Problem solved. :gj:

Having said that, yes, I do understand the importance of controlling conditions religiously (you should've seen the controllers I used for my aquariums in the past). That's why I did my homework and purchased the best available thermostat for my new additions - a Herpstat 2. I am currently using it to control the flexwatt UTH on the hot side (probe directly on the UTH), and the fluorescent lights. I also have an old Herpstat Humidity that I purchased years ago that is in control of a humidifier in the room and a Ranco controller that is in control of an oil-filled radiator in the room. I also own a temperature gun that I use to verify the in-cage conditions. As I said in the OP, after a week of fine-tuning all of these, I feel confident that I have the basic environmental conditions dialed in.

In regards to the lights themselves, they are sold as an option with the T8 and there are several threads on these forums written by experienced keepers that use them in their display cages (on in particular that should probably be stickied). The room the snakes stay in does have a window, but it's still the darkest exterior room inthe house. I understand that they're not a necessity by any means, but I would prefer to have them so long as they are not causing harm to the animals that come into contact with them. This is why I immediately grabbed my temperature gun and scanned every millimeter of the light fixture on the other side of the divided cage to make sure it wasn't approaching 100 degrees. From the care guide written by Kevin McCurley on ReptileChannel.com, recommended hot side temperatures are between 88-96 degrees, which is why I wasn't panicked about the location of my new arrival.

Again - thanks for everyone's advice. Quite honestly, I was more scared of this thread turning into another "ball pythons aren't arboreal" debate than a "ball pythons have no use for light" debate. :)

Eric

I've seen quite a few users add those light fixtures to their T8's. I plan on buying them when I get my T8 here in the next month or so. Otherwise it'd just be dark in the tank and I'd like to see my snake.

Another thing you can do to clutter the tank (that looks much better too) is to go to Michaels or something and buy cheap fake plants, wash them real well, and decorate the tank. I have several in my 20 gallon to clutter it up. He likes to trample over them. :rolleyes:

It's crazy what sets off intense debates on his forum. The 'multiple snakes in one enclosure' is common, but I don't think I've heard anybody having a problem with putting fluorescent fixtures inside a T8. ;)

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Originally Posted by j. cooper

Ok... if something isn't necessary, then why would someone use it? Doesn't make sense to me... but people will do what they want.

Thanks.

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It isn't necessary for me to carry my .357 magnum with me when I go out at night, but I live in a high crime area so I do it because I feel like it. :D

OP is probably using a light because in a T8 it does look kinda dark in the enclosure, and a light aesthetically looks great, no function really, but it looks nice.

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Originally Posted by Trackstrong83

It isn't necessary for me to carry my .357 magnum with me when I go out at night, but I live in a high crime area so I do it because I feel like it. :D

OP is probably using a light because in a T8 it does look kinda dark in the enclosure, and a light aesthetically looks great, no function really, but it looks nice.

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While I appreciate the sentiment, please don't compare the stigma of carrying a gun to having a light in a snake cage. Nothing productive can come from this kind of rationalization on a forum meant for the quality care of pet reptiles.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

While I appreciate the sentiment, please don't compare the stigma of carrying a gun to having a light in a snake cage. Nothing productive can come from this kind of rationalization on a forum meant for the quality care of pet reptiles.

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Sorry about that, it was the first thing that came to mind because all of my friends say it "isn't necessary". Sorry to track off topic or if I offended anybody.

I use lights that were sold from AP with my T8, I did replace the bulbs though with Reptisun 2.0 bulbs. They are also hooked up to a 12 hour on/off timer.


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Isn't the purpose of a display cage to display your animal? Lights help with that aspect :) Haha


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Originally Posted by martin82531

I use lights that were sold from AP with my T8, I did replace the bulbs though with Reptisun 2.0 bulbs. They are also hooked up to a 12 hour on/off timer.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

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Any noticable difference between the stock bulb and the Reptisun bulb?

Nobody tell Eric we have had gun debates on the forum, or that we have a quarantine room! ;)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Any noticable difference between the stock bulb and the Reptisun bulb?

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There was a difference in the brightness but that was about it.


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I have (led) lights in my snake cage because I have been wearing glasses for 43 years, it's helpful. What I don't use is a timer.

What LED lights do you use? I've been looking around and have not been able to find a good option. I really want some for night time viewing.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Nobody tell Eric we have had gun debates on the forum, or that we have a quarantine room! ;)

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I grew up in South Dakota, moved to Arizona, and currently live in Texas. You think I have an aversion to gun debates? I just didn't want/need one started in my thread about lights in a snake cage.

It was a joke. You will find YOUR thread can quickly evolve here.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You will find YOUR thread can quickly evolve here.

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It happens. When I started one asking people if they took their snakes outside at all, next thing I know it was in quarantine. Lol :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by KMG

What LED lights do you use? I've been looking around and have not been able to find a good option. I really want some for night time viewing.

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I have a small strip I got from home depot up in a corner which is bright, straight down and I have to open the cage to switch it on and off. Two screws and a hole for the cable. Keep in mind my snake is good sized and escape through a 1" hole is not a concern. Additionally I took a flexible led strip kit, the kind that have tape, and crammed it in a DVD spindle so no tape is used. I cut a couple of key holes in the spindle base and mounted with 2 screws. Once I was happy with it all I glued it shut just in case. I don't really use the colors I like the remote control.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...e_led_lamp.jpg

I just received my T8 this week and ordered it with the fluorescent lights for two reasons. First, the T8 is extremely dark (it is black and lets no light in except from the front), and I am putting T8 on a windowless hallway counter that receives only indirect sunlight (light is limited to light coming from two bedrooms off the hallway, both of which have windoes). Second, based on advice of some experienced BP keepers here, I plan on using the fluorescent as a heat source to raise the ambient temperature in the T8 (the temperature in the hallway is approximately 68-70 in the winter and 78-80 in the summer). (I'll be using Flexwatt for a hotspot.) I assembled the T8 two nights ago and am waiting for the sealant to cure. I expect to be adding the Flexwatt later tonight or tomorrow and getting the temperature and humidity stable before adding my two BPs, which are currently in glass tanks.

Back to the subject of the fluorescent lights, would the BP be "smart" enough not to hang out on the roof-mounted light if the temperature of the light were dangerous for the BP (assuming the temperature of the bottom of the T8 was in the 80-85 range)?

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Originally Posted by arialmt

I have a small strip I got from home depot up in a corner which is bright, straight down and I have to open the cage to switch it on and off. Two screws and a hole for the cable. Keep in mind my snake is good sized and escape through a 1" hole is not a concern. Additionally I took a flexible led strip kit, the kind that have tape, and crammed it in a DVD spindle so no tape is used. I cut a couple of key holes in the spindle base and mounted with 2 screws. Once I was happy with it all I glued it shut just in case. I don't really use the colors I like the remote control.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...e_led_lamp.jpg

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Very cool idea! I was trying to figure out a way to get some red light in the T8 for some night-time viewing. I very much like your idea of using the LED strip lighting and the remote is great. I think I saw a kit like that at Costco. Is that where you purchased the flexible LED strip?

She's fine. Baby ball pythons are semi-arboreal, and they like to do perverse things like this. She'll eventually outgrow that cranny, and then she'll have to settle for a ground-based hide.

It's true you don't need the light. But if squeezing into that spot makes her happy, leave the light in there and let her be happy until she outgrows it or the fun wears off.

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Originally Posted by BPGuy

Very cool idea! I was trying to figure out a way to get some red light in the T8 for some night-time viewing. I very much like your idea of using the LED strip lighting and the remote is great. I think I saw a kit like that at Costco. Is that where you purchased the flexible LED strip?

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Costco happens to be where I picked that up.

Also I cut and smoothed the ring off the top of the dome. It was like a ring of color daring me to remove it. Just make sure you keep a plug link outside the dome, test it, then glue it shut. I keep the transformer on the back of the cage and the infrared eye under my thermostat, simple.

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Originally Posted by arialmt

Costco happens to be where I picked that up.

Also I cut and smoothed the ring off the top of the dome. It was like a ring of color daring me to remove it. Just make sure you keep a plug link outside the dome, test it, then glue it shut. I keep the transformer on the back of the cage and the infrared eye under my thermostat, simple.

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LOL. Since my last post (but before seeing yours), my wife ended up in Costco so I asked her to look to see if she saw the lights. She did. $29.99 so I asked her to pick them up for me. I'm actually hoping to finish assembling my T8 tonight (still have to fasten down the thermometers, screw on the top, add the glass doors, and add the Flexwatt and Herpstat). I'll now include add the LED strip lights to my to-do list. :) Thanks again for the great idea!

Update 1: I added a few pages of crumpled up newspaper to her home after seeing her flying high again while the lights were off this morning. Turns out she was likely less-than-thrilled with her new spacious mansion and not quite ready for her own episode of Cribs. After cluttering it up a bit, she came down on her own and settled in to her hot side hide and has been happy ever since.

Update 2: So happy, actually, that she took her first meal in my care. She hadn't had a meal since 04/12, so I decided to not wait and see how she'd do. She had no problems at all with a 20g live rat fuzzy. I'm going to be switching over to f/t shortly, but I didn't want a meal refusal during the first few feedings to be due to a new way it was being offered.

Thanks for your help and suggestions, everyone!

Those LED lights from Costco are awesome! They come in two-foot sections (four are included in the package from Costco). I used two of the sections and ran them straight across the top of my T8 (which is slightly less than 24 inches light inside the cage). I used the adhesive on the back of the strips to attach them to the top of my T8 right behind the fluorescent lights (in hindsight, I would have been better off mounting them in front of the fluorescent tubes because the tubes shield the light a bit). Just in case the adhesive ever gives out, I screwed some metal brackets (the type used to hold mirrors in place) over the LED light strips in various places. My 11 year-old son had the great idea of putting the LED control box in the empty spot in the fluorescent light that is between the light and the top of the T8 (the infrared sensor tangles out). I'll try to post some photos later this week so you all can see what I did. The light strip is working great to provide us with some night-time viewing of the BPs. Thanks for tip, arialmt!

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Originally Posted by BPGuy

Those LED lights from Costco are awesome! They come in two-foot sections (four are included in the package from Costco). I used two of the sections and ran them straight across the top of my T8 (which is slightly less than 24 inches light inside the cage). I used the adhesive on the back of the strips to attach them to the top of my T8 right behind the fluorescent lights (in hindsight, I would have been better off mounting them in front of the fluorescent tubes because the tubes shield the light a bit). Just in case the adhesive ever gives out, I screwed some metal brackets (the type used to hold mirrors in place) over the LED light strips in various places. My 11 year-old son had the great idea of putting the LED control box in the empty spot in the fluorescent light that is between the light and the top of the T8 (the infrared sensor tangles out). I'll try to post some photos later this week so you all can see what I did. The light strip is working great to provide us with some night-time viewing of the BPs. Thanks for tip, arialmt!

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Just trying to picture how you did this in my mind... The LED strips are mounted with adhesive inside the plastic cover for the fluorescent lights from AP? I might need to look into doing this. I see a more stable temperature during the time that the fluorescent lights are off than when they are on during the day. It's not a swing that I'm terribly concerned about, but the more stability I can introduce into my enclosures, the happier both myself and my animals will be. Thanks for your clarification in advance!

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Just trying to picture how you did this in my mind... The LED strips are mounted with adhesive inside the plastic cover for the fluorescent lights from AP? I might need to look into doing this. I see a more stable temperature during the time that the fluorescent lights are off than when they are on during the day. It's not a swing that I'm terribly concerned about, but the more stability I can introduce into my enclosures, the happier both myself and my animals will be. Thanks for your clarification in advance!

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I took some photos with my digital camera, which is at home. I'm at work right now, but will try to post some photos later (probably later in the week, not tonight) so you can see exactly what I did. In the meantime, let me try to explain it. The LED light strips have an adhesive on the back of the strip. I used the adhesive to attach to the strips to the ceiling (interior top) of the T8 (and then used some metal strips that I screwed into the ceiling of the T8 just in case the adhesive stops working). I mounted the strip to the portion of the ceiling that is between the back of the fluorescent lights and the back wall of the T8. Thus, when you are looking at the cage from the front (through the glass doors), you see the fluourescent light fixtures but not the LED light strips, which are positioned so they shine down from the ceiling of the cage to the bottom of the cage.

The LED light strips (which are about 1/4" wide and 1/8" high by 24" per strip) connect to a small control box that is maybe 2"x3"x2" (my rough estimate of dimensions). The a power adapter blugs into the control box. The control box also has a thin cord that is maybe 4" long. At that end of that cord is an IR receiver, which receives a signal from the remote control. The fluorescent fixtures that are sold by Animal Plastics have a dead (hollow) spot in the back on the left side of each light fixture. When the fluorescent fixtures are shipped, the AC power cords are stored in that dead space. Instead of using that dead space to store the extra length of AC cord for the fluorescent fixture, I placed the LED light control box in the dead space and then just routed the round power cord and the flat IR receiver cord out of a little notch in the flourescent fixture case that would be used to route the fixture's AC cord if you were mounting the fluorescent fixture under, say, a kitchen cabinet and running the cord outside the fluorescent fixture (when you order the fluorescent fixture from AP, they drill holes in the top part of the T8 and the fluorescent light's cord is run through that hole instead from the side of the fixture).

I hope this better helps you visualize what I did with the LED lights. Like I said, I'll post some photos when I can. In fact, my plan was to post a bunch of photos in the T8 set-up thread because I photographed every single step of the T8 setup, from the unboxing until the entire unit was set-pu and running.

BTW, the LED lights generate no discernable heat at all. Before installing them in the T8, I left them on all night long (a good 8 hours, if not longer) and then touched them in the morning. They felt like room temperature. They can generate a multitude of colors so, for example, during the daytime you can use a white light and then switch to red at night.