Normals and their affect on morphs

I realize that normals aren't really a morph per say but seeing as there is such a wide range of colors and patterns, I was wondering what people's experiences had been with breeding them. The main reason I'm asking is because I've now got a normal female from a rescue situation who should be ready to breed next season. The only issue I see is that she's extremely dark with next to no blushing while I have focused more on the lighter morphs. After breeding cats for years, I realize that though a red/orange tabby is the same gene on all cats, some carry deeper, more reddish coloration than others and will affect each other. For that reason, I'm worried that taking a dark normal female to a lighter morph such as my pastel enchi, will end up creating lower quality morphs in the end. Any thoughts on this or experience with how the balance of color/pattern/flames on a normal affect or are affected by the introduction of morphs?

The other reason I'm asking is I've seen enough debate on the browned out pastel issue to choke a horse AND bury it. The last thing I wish to do is muddy up good genetics with my normal's genes in the mix. If need be, I can always look into the darker morphs such as cinnamons, etc. to go with her if they do seem to have a strong affect on the morph genes.

Thanks ahead of time for any input breeders might have on this topic. Though it's not as interesting as say the latest 5-6 gene animal, the range of normals is something that is interesting to me.

I my personal experience, normals do contribute to the genes just like a morph does. For example, I have a very light colored female whom I used to breed extremely light vanillas. I also have a high blushed female who produced my exceptional fires.

My husband has a very reduced pattern normal who made some very reduced spiders and a reduced lesser.

If this female is very dark with minimal blushing, then I do not advise breeding her with high blushing light morphs as you will defeat your purpose. A female like her can be invaluable for darker morphs such as Black Pastel, Mocha, Chocolate, Red Axanthic, and perhaps Cinnamon.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

If this female is very dark with minimal blushing, then I do not advise breeding her with high blushing light morphs as you will defeat your purpose. A female like her can be invaluable for darker morphs such as Black Pastel, Mocha, Chocolate, Red Axanthic, and perhaps Cinnamon.

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I would totally breed her to something dark. I was going to suggest cinnamon, but Gale beat me to it!

Dark doesn't even begin to describe this girl... After her first full shed here, I actually had to look to even find a flame. Otherwise her black is black and even herthanks pattern is a darker reddish brown. Her white stays down on her belly as well. Since I'm currently on my phone, it won't let me post pics but I did put up a couple in the BP Photo section the other day after getting some new pics.

As far as morphs, I've been looking into the cinnamon genes as it is. I love the strange pattern on those as well as the black pastels so probably head that direction. Thanks.

Show us a pic. She sounds interesting

Looking at those pics, she looks like average darkness. I've definitely seen darker normals than her.

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Originally Posted by gerardo

show us a pic. She sounds interesting

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Choosing the right normal for breeding is extremely important!
They do after all contribute half of their genetic material to the offspring. An ugly dirty normal will dirty up their offspring, just like how a nice clean normal will clean up their offspring.


I suggest putting the dark normal to an albino to make dark hets.
Darker the normal het, the higher contrast the albino will be.

the influence of what kind of normal you use is enormous, especially on single-gene morphs.

and i agree with the others, it will work well with dark morphs, or albino for high contrast albino. i would add pewter and pewter-related stuff and caramel.

Ok, for those asking for pics, here are the ones I took after her shed. I have also seen darker normals as well but maybe it's because I see mostly babies that the majority of normals I see in person have some degree of blushing/lighter colors. Then again, that could just be what I notice because other than the cinnies, I prefer the brighter combos to the dark. Hadn't thought about the contrast with the albino. Interesting that it helps with higher contrast though I can see. Essentially what you're saying there is that her genetics call for more pigment (hence the black and lack of blushing) so it would do so with the yellow as well, correct?

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps584c097f.jpg
http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...pseff8a94f.jpg
http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0363c7ef.jpg

yes, the rich, dark browns contain lots of yellow. lighter, greyish browns contain less yellow. so a darker, deeper brown is better, and it should be as far away from grey as possible.

judging from the pics i would say its really good looking, but i think for high contrast albino you can find browns with even higher color intensity. anyway, it should be good for cinnamon / black pastel / red axanthic / pewter.

also the patterning could look nice combined with enchi; for my personal taste enchi is not a morph that needs to be light-colored. But it wouldnt work so well with pastel.

Looks like any number of normals. I would not call her a dark normal...just normal. She does look good though.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Looks like any number of normals. I would not call her a dark normal...just normal. She does look good though.

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Oh, I'm sure she's pretty average but it's different when you tend to focus on one thing. I know she's nothing special but compared to my others and what I notice at shows, etc, she might as well be solid black... ;)

This is my "dark" girl, she's got a velvety look to her in person. She's being paired with my enchi, in hopes of the pattern helping out with the enchi banding, rather than the color. Next year I'll probably put a dark morph to her though, thinking black pastel.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psc31a2b64.jpg

Are we sharing darker than average normals? :P

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...212011body.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3...2pariscope.jpg

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

This is my "dark" girl, she's got a velvety look to her in person. She's being paired with my enchi, in hopes of the pattern helping out with the enchi banding, rather than the color. Next year I'll probably put a dark morph to her though, thinking black pastel.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psc31a2b64.jpg

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I've got one that looks very much like that one. I bred her to a pastel a few years ago and the banding did come through but the color was kind of odd. Not browned out but it had kind of an olive overcast to the yellow. I'm leaving her for the dark morphs from now on.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've got one that looks very much like that one. I bred her to a pastel a few years ago and the banding did come through but the color was kind of odd. Not browned out but it had kind of an olive overcast to the yellow. I'm leaving her for the dark morphs from now on.

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Yea, unfortunately my only dark boy decided he wanted to go off feed before he was big enough to handle it (450g). So he's out of rotation until next season. I can't wait to put some dark to her though.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

This is my "dark" girl, she's got a velvety look to her in person. She's being paired with my enchi, in hopes of the pattern helping out with the enchi banding, rather than the color. Next year I'll probably put a dark morph to her though, thinking black pastel.

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...psc31a2b64.jpg

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Wow... That is gorgeous and I don't even generally like darker snakes...

Thankie :) She was a local CL pick up, that was actually sexed correctly:O! I'm excited to see what her offspring will look like :D