What size is best for first snake?

Hi I'm new to the boards, but have been reading about BP for a while now. I've finally saved enough money to be able to afford one and so after all my research I went out today and bought my supplies. But after searching and reading for a while, I can't seem to figure out what size BP I should get .

I would assume it would be easier on me to get a BP thats already somewhat developed as I think it would be easier. But then again there is something alluring about raising a BP from a baby too. Can anyone suggest the size/length/age of a BP for a first snake, and some reasons for why your suggestion is a good idea? Any answers would be appreciated ^_^ It's also making it hard for me to decide on what size hide I need to get.

And anyone that is interested the supplies I bought were:

90qt Sterilite Container (can bring it back for smaller if I decide to get a baby)
Dunlap Heating Pad for UTH
Digital Themometer with Probe
Digital Themometer with Probe and Hygrometer

I'm going to the petstore later today to see what they have in the way of water dishes and hides and such.

Personally, I would recommend a baby ball python. Just like any other pet, if you get a bp when its a baby, it will grow acustom easier and (probably) be more docile as it grows because obviously, it will know you. However, I don't think you would have a problem with a older ball python either (unless of course it is wild caught).

I think there is also something to be said about actually watching your ball python grow and mature. I think its an awesome experience which will bring you closer to your pet. Hope this helps.

Look like you got the exact same setup as i do. LOL I would start with a baby ball python. And you can probibly start with the 90qt but be sure to put lots of hiding places and some fake vines for them to hide under and pass from hide to hide unnoticed. It is preferable to use a smaller sterilite but i would keep the 90qt and and buy a smaller one and use either one as a feeding bin.

It look like you are off to a great start. It makes me feel happy when someone puts everything together before going out and buying a snake. It shows real maturity on your part. I foresee that you will be a great keeper for you new pal. Welcome to Ball-Pythons.net. If you have any other questions please dont hesitate to ask.

Baby, definitely. Right now, they should be very inexpensive at a reptile show. I've seen them from 10 to 30 bucks.

Raising a baby ball isn't as complicated as raising other young species of reptiles. The only issues you will need to keep track of when they are young is how and when to increase the size of their prey. For example, when it is young, it will be eating younger mice such as fuzzies, then hoppers. After that, smaller adult mice will be appropriate and eventually they will be eating full grown adults. Plan on increasing the prey size once every several weeks for their first 9 months or so. My bp is about 5 months old and is already eating retired adult breeder mice. She went grew out of hoppers and on to adult mice in less than a month a little while back.

I try my best to serve a mouse that is just about the same size as the largest point of amber's girth, I include the extra size the mouse's fir provides just to be safe. I'm sure she would be able to get something bigger than even that down, but these mice have left her quite satisfied. I'll be moving her on to small rats within the next few months. Although she's having no problem with aduly mice, I really think its too soon to try to feed her rats.

I've heard from alot of people around here and read in a few places that baby BP's can take an adult mouse straight out of the egg, maybe a small adult, but not hoppers and definately not fuzzies. Those last two just don't seem to be a substantial enough meal for the BP, even though the babies are small. Also, if you are getting your BP from a breeder, it won't come to you straight out of the egg, the breeder "should" (if he/she is reputable enough) have the BP eat a few times, get a little weight on it, and then send it to you. Having the baby eat the small adult mice provides them with the needed calcium and other nutrients that a hopper or fuzzy just hasn't developed yet, for example: Bones :). Hopper and fuzzy mice, if I'm not mistaken, are still pretty much rubber(cartilage) instead of bone. So if that is the case, then the BP won't be getting the nutrients it needs early on in life and may have complications further down the road, which none of us wants (I hope...) Sorry to blabber on so much, just trying to help straighten out stuff. If anything I said was incorrect, someone please jump right on in.

The rule of thumb as far as feeding goes says that they can eat the same size as widest part of their body. My baby ball is eating large hopper or small adult mice. After a few fuzzys they should quickly move to hoppers then after a few of those to small mice then to medium sized mice. Then to small rats.

Becky, agreed, but some babies may just be too small and need to start on hoppers though they should be moved up in the matter of several weeks to adult mice. As far as what size snake is best, I'd say ideal for a beginner is something like one of the males Hillary Webb was selling off recently, a yearling or near-yearling CBB well established on eating frozen-thawed and already used to being handled.

Adult mouse right out of the egg is caca - can't tell you how skeptical I am of that - especially after watching Smynx feed her 3 new babies. The tail would likely be hangin out of their mouths - and the girth!!! Ouch. And sometimes even though a snake CAN take injuriously large prey relative to it's size doesn't mean it should be done. Even in the wild snakes can get in over their heads and literally bite off more than they can chew - choking themselves (very rare but docuemnted in a few cases with AfRocks - of course it is fairly difficult to regurge something antlered like a gazelle).

Glad to see you made over to this forum. Sounds like you are off to a great start. I'd love to see a pic of your setup and your BP sometime.

Personally, I prefer young snakes - feels like I've raised them. Your setup sounds great. The size is fine, just be sure to offer plenty of hides if you get a little BP. You should have no problem getting a young BP at a reptile show. Go for small hides - tight, low and snug. The flower pot bases and butter tubs are a good start. If you want something more 'natural' looking you might be able to find some of the half coconut hides a the petstore.

Always such a relief to find someone who really wants to do things right and not rush into them.

Keep us posted!

I like em young meself! I like to watch em grow.
You also dont really know about the older ones. You could be getting a ball that has been fed in his enclosure for all of his life, which would make him associate opening the enclosure with food. In other words, I like to "train" them myself. Then I know they are treated right and havnt had past health problems.
As for the size of food, I have been able to start both of mine on pinkie rats when I first got them. You can get pinky rats smaller then an adult mouse, and then you dont have to worry about the switch from mouse to rat.

Amber appeared to have a mouthful the first time she took an adult mouse. I can't imagine a baby taking down a weaned rat...........but hey, these snakes never cease to amaze me so I wouldn't strike that down right away.

I have always been under the impression that its OK to keep them on adult mice for a period of time before you switch them to young rats. My local shop feeds their feeder rodents supplemented food and whatnot, saying that the adult mice have more nutrition than the weaned rats that they have, which are mostly just fat. It couldn't hurt to stay on mice until they can comfortable get a rat down, but doesn't hurt to switch them over early. This might just be one of those owner preference debates. Amber has been taking down the largest adult mice they keep, and I will need to be moving her over to rats in the next month or two.

I have found that the newborn rats (a couple days old) are smaller than an adult mouse. Which is why I like them. :-)
(not to mention my two snakes were at least 3 months old when I bought em) That is a good point about nutrients being better in the older mice. To bad they cant put nutition facts on mice eh? :lol:

No significant differences in nutirition - at least not enough to support the 'rats are better than mice theory' you seen thrown around too much. The big difference is more when you compare of the age of the prey. If you take an adult mouse and a rat of the same size (I can't remember what that is - a rat pup?)you'll find the adult mouse has more calcium while the rat pup is more fat.

They don't ever have to be switched to rats - a lifetime of mice is just fine. I have heard of some breeders who actually rotate betwen young rats and older mice for their newborns to give them a variety of nutrients to start.

I do have a chart that breaks down the nutirtional value...I'll try to find it later.

Everyone else has pretty much confirmed that a baby snake is the way to go. Just make sure when you choose one, that you get it from someone you feel you can trust, and that person promises it is an established feeder. You could be setting yourself up for a disappointment if you get a snake right out of the egg, or one that has yet to take a meal.

Yes, it's a good idea to ask to see it feed just to be sure.

If I ask to see it feed, and it feeds, how am I supposed to take it home if you arent supposed to handle it for 24-48 hours after feeding O_O

I just took some pics of my setup but i need to find my Digi card reader to put them up. I havent actually mounted my themometer probes and hygrometer yet, I need to drill some air holes first. I was told on the kingsnake boards to have around 3 rows of holes close to the lid of the container all the way around the container, but that seems like alot of drilling to me o_O And what area should I stick my probes to the wall of the container? I heard 2 inches above the bottom. And how can I check the surface temp? I'm at the moment using newspaper as substrate.


I'm still looking for a place to buy a BP T_T The only reptile show around me is going to be in White Plains, NY on July 18th and thats such a long time for now.


At the moment with my first temp/humidity test in my room, its reading 83* on the hotside and 78* on the cold side and 71% humidity. I hope the temp goes up and the humidity stays the same after I put holes in it.

If you do your holes at an angle, low on the warm side up to high on the cool side, it will help you create and maintain your heat gradient.

But all the way 360* around the tank? or just on the 2 ends?

And I "Have" decided to get a baby BP, but how big are they as babies and how old o_O

Quote:

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If I ask to see it feed, and it feeds, how am I supposed to take it home if you arent supposed to handle it for 24-48 hours after feeding O_O

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Most likely not an option if buying from a reptile show. But if you buy from a petstore (and it seems the general opinion is avoid this if possible), then there's no reason they can't feed it and let you come back a couple of days later. One of the problems with petstores is there's a good chance they might be wild caught - that and they usually can't tell you anything about the snake (date of birth, sex, history, etc).

Is there any place other then a reptile show and a petshop I can get one?
I'd hate to have to wait an entire month to get my BP T_T

Online breeders...these guys come highly recommended:

http://ballpython.com/page.php
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/available.html
http://www.eastbayvivarium.com/virtu...tualstore.html

But, I know it's hard to wait but at least you'll have plenty of time to get your setup perfect.

Of course, if you're willing to drive a bit you can go to a show in another area. Here's a list of shows:
http://www.kingsnake.com/events.html

Here are the pics of my setup so far. As you can see I haven't cut the hides yet cause I think they are too big, they are 10".

I also haven't mounted my hygrometer/themometer or probes yet either, as I dont know where to put them yet o_O I just have them there for testing. And obviously no holes until I know exactly where to put them.



Is this heater too close?



I hope these aren't too big >_< Let me know and I'll delete them.

Those places you listed online don't seem to have any "normal" BP babies, only the really rare expensive ones it seems T_T

NERD definitely has normal babies, just start from the main page to find them. Also, www.alexhuereptiles.com and www.alanboschreptiles.com are other good sources for CBB normal babies. As far as the holes, that depends on your ambient temps and humidity as to what is going to be ideal. My larger containers have a double row all the way around, spaced ~3" apart. Your heating pad is definitely not too close, and you could actually get it a little closer if you're still having problems getting it warm enough in there. By the way, I wouldn't "mount" the probes -- I don't in any of my enclosures, because I need to get them back out every time I clean. I leave the base unit at the front of the enclosure on the cool side for easy reading, and tuck the probe just inside the warm hide, with an edge on top of the wire to mostly hold it in place (it does need adjusting from time to time), and tuck the extra wire under the newspaper (though outside the enclosure works too).

I seem to remember answering this yesterday but cant find the post any where....Oh well anyway, If this is your first snake I would recomend getting a well started animal that is eating F/T, something round 5-6 months from a reputable breeder like NERD or Alex Hue.You'll still be able to grow him/her up without some of the stresses of starting out with a hatchling. Dont worry though you will get your fair share of stress with your new BP anyway! :P

Sorry, I didnt see the "CB '04 Normals - nice fat CB babies!!! Females: $65+ Males $55+"

Is that what you are referring to? I thought over 50$ was expensive for a baby?

Depends on who you're buying from. You can often buy from smaller breeders for anywhere from $20-$40 for a CBB male, but larger breeders are more likely to fall into the $50-$100 range. Of course, with the larger breeder, you typically have their reputation to fall back on, which you may not have with a smaller breeder. I believe Alex Hue's CBB males are $40 or $45.

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/Specials/specials.html|

That type??
Or am I looking at the wrong thing again

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/Pythons/Balls.html here, scroll down to the bottom. You were looking at farm hatched.

wow those females at the bottom look really nice! Are you able to reserve them or something? I'm having trouble navigating the page for some reason.
Also, which of those females at the bottom looks the best? BPF-296 and BP598-F look nice to me

I don't think you'd go wrong with either of those girls, and they're both good sized already and will (should) eat frozen-thawed for you. you can use the numbers on the site to order the specific animal you want, as long as it's still listed when you're ready to buy. Alex would probably also be willing to sell you the animal and delay shipment for a reasonable time (say a week), while you finish getting set up for it.

I was able to find 7-9 month olds from the Sutherlands (the first link I sent), babies on the NERD link and the third link (EBV) they have babies listed on their price list. I think you have to contact them to verify availability.

BTW, how long is a BP considered a baby? o_O

How long a ball python takes to mature includes a couple of varieables one being age and the second being weight males tend to become sexually mature between 16-18 months (some as early as 12) at a weight of 500-900 grams females become sexually mature as early as 18-24 months but the generally acepted breeding age is around 3 years @ about 1500 grams after all that I would say a ball python is no longer a baby with proper feeding at about the age of 6 months to a year

So snakes are considered adults when they are sexually mature and not when they are physically mature? Of course, I don't even know how to tell when a snake is physically mature.

Thanks for the responses again ^_^ So from what you say Robert is that at 6 months it should weigh around what for a female?

Tigerg the majority of a ball pythons growth is done in the first 2-3 years after that they still grow but very little so its more a matter of opinion what you would call physically mature these animals dont abide the same rules we do there is no "legal age" lol If a female is produceing follicles and a male produceing sperm and they meet up in the wild they will breed . alot of the size issues you see as far as breeding go are totally related to produceing the most eggs and the best chance of even produceing eggs at all
as far as weight for a 6 month old female it is entirely up to feeding and genetics on average 300-600 would be a ball park by the second year should weigh any where from 1200-1600 grams some may stop around this point and some go on to be 2500-3000 gram girls .males on the other hand once they go off feed for their first breeding season tend to stop growing all together and more or less bounce back and forth during on and off cycles

So all in all you would say a 6month old female is still considered a baby right?

Thanks for the info Robert!

all in all a 6 month female would be considered a juvenile considereing a hatchling may weight any were from 50-90 grams

Oh ok, I know everyone said baby but is a Juvenile not as good? I have my sights set on a particular one and she should be 6 months old and something like 250-300g I can't remember exactly o_O

baby or juvie is fine as long as they were well started

This one is my front runner at the moment ^_^
She may actually be less then 6 months cause she only weighs 220grams.

http://www.alexhuereptiles.com/Pytho...ns/bp595-f.JPG

I got my ball python when he was 6 months. Perfectly happy with him. :D