HELP 5 random balls just up and died

Well I just had 5 ball pythons die, out of nowhere.
Now I am taking the rest to a vet tomorrow.
But I am hoping for others opinions.

When I looked at them they were bloated looking.
And it was extremely random.
I just got another snake who was among the ones who died.
Plz any information on what it could be would be appreciated.
I just want to know what steps to take now.

When was the last time you saw them living? The bloating can be from decomp (gasses and nasty processes as such) and in higher tempts (basically above room temp) that process will be brought on faster and more aggressively.

So you just got another snake, and it appears you didn't quarantine What happened is this snake came with a problem, and others caught it. Have necropsies done and find out what killed them. But I bet you it originated in the new additon

It happened in a matter of days.
And the new addition seemed real jumpy.
Grr so this is my fault :( it sucks. And I fear for the rest of my snakes.

I'd say everyone needs to go under quarantine, and quickly. I would also sterilize everything..

Where did you get the snake from?
It is your fault for not quarantining. But in my opinion you got sold a sick snake

I got the snake from a local breeder.
Which I was not so sure of doing in the first place :/.
So all the snakes I have now quarantine them in the same room?
For how long?
How long should I wait before buying anymore snakes?

Were all your snakes in a rack system? Keep in mind I'm no expert, others will chime in.
From what I know, quarantined snakes aren't kept in the same room. If your whole rack was exposed, if possible I would separate them out. But if not, they were all equally exposed and could be quanrantined together. BUT whatever this is it is deadly. I would take every precaution.
I think standard quarantine is 6 months.
You can buy whatever you like, just don't expose them to anything your collection has touched

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowShredder

in my opinion you got sold a sick snake

---

First off, I am very sorry to hear of your losses.

However, a sick snake coming into your collection wouldn't just BAM kill 5 snakes all at one time. I'm not super well-versed in snake diseases but I honestly can't think of one that would wipe that many out all around the same time. I would guess it's something environmental at this point.

They died in a matter of days, you say. How many days from first death to last?

How were your temps?
What were the snakes housed in?
What were you using for heating?
What thermoSTAT were you using to control the heating?
What thermoMETER were you using to measure temps?
How many snakes do you have?
What species of snakes do you have?
What was the new addition?
Did the new addition display any strange symptoms, other than being jumpy (being jumpy is typical of a snake that just underwent a major upheaval in it's living arrangements)?
Have you recently had a mite infestation?
Have you burned any incense inside?
Have you used any hairspray, perfume, cologne, etc recently?
Did you bomb your house for fleas recently? (if you have a furry animal?)
Did you spray for ants or othe flying insects recently?
Did you spray Provent-A-Mite directly into the air in your reptile room recently?

ANYTHING you can think of that would be off?

All of these questions need to be answered but most importantly you need to have a necropsy done on each and every single one of those dead snakes.

The ones that died were in a rack system , the new snake was on a shelf
In a tub to the right of everything else.
Out of the rest of my snakes I had a male cinnamon who used to be real nippy
Then acted weird and he has been seperated since it happened.
And now he seems fine. Other thanthat the others eat fine
I

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

First off, I am very sorry to hear of your losses.

However, a sick snake coming into your collection wouldn't just BAM kill 5 snakes all at one time. I'm not super well-versed in snake diseases but I honestly can't think of one that would wipe that many out all around the same time. I would guess it's something environmental at this point.

They died in a matter of days, you say. How many days from first death to last?

How were your temps?
What were the snakes housed in?
What were you using for heating?
What thermoSTAT were you using to control the heating?
What thermoMETER were you using to measure temps?
How many snakes do you have?
What species of snakes do you have?
What was the new addition?
Did the new addition display any strange symptoms, other than being jumpy (being jumpy is typical of a snake that just underwent a major upheaval in it's living arrangements)?
Have you burned any incense inside?
Have you used any hairspray, perfume, cologne, etc recently?
Did you bomb your house for fleas recently? (if you have a furry animal?)
Did you spray for ants or othe flying insects recently?
Did you spray Provent-A-Mite directly into the air in your reptile room recently?

ANYTHING you can think of that would be off?

All of these questions need to be answered but most importantly you need to have a necropsy done on each and every single one of those dead snakes.

---

You are so right that it could be environmental!! Gahh, I just assumed husbandry was normal and that was stupid of me. I've known of chemicals but that didn't cross my mind either..
I assumed all the snakes were ball pythons..
Assume makes an ASS out of U and ME...basically me though lol

Well the OP did state it was ball pythons who died, but was just wondering if there were any other species in the collection.

I just switched to aspen bedding the same week this all happened.
But I bought it from tractor supply instead of petco like nornal.
And I use heat tape and a herpstat to maintain everything.

Sorry yes only ball pythons

Tractor supply? Beddings that aren't "snake" approved could contain pine which I know could kill them. I have no clue about the symptoms/timeline of that though so just spitting what's on my mind

If it were me I would remove all remaining snakes off the aspen and sterilize their bins. Put them on newspaper or paper towel and monitor them all closely.

Sounds to me like it was related to the aspen. Even if it had been cedar or pine, it wouldn't have killed the 5 snakes, but would have made them sick over a much longer period of time. They likely wouldn't have upped and died - but would have displayed symptoms of respiratory distress. I'm thinking perhaps some pesticide or other chemical was leaked into the wood shavings, perhaps in transport to the tractor supply, perhaps at the tractor Supply, who knows.

But the aspen seems to be the link, to me. If that's the only thing you have changed recently about their environment.

Its been like 2 months since this happened, I am in the military and away when it happened.
I just got back and have had no way to do any real research or really anything.
And I have had no deaths since,
When it happened my wife got rid of the bedding and swotched to newspaper
And moved all the snakes from our house to her dads.
I just got them all back today well what's left
And they all seem fine.
I apologize for not mentioning this earlier but maybe it will help to know this.

Yes, the aspen os what I thought too, and it seemed most logical
Until I read about the many diseases snakes could get.

Well if she switched away from the aspen she did the right thing - and glad there haven't been any more deaths.

I would still investigate if there was any other chemical contamination or strange fumes that may have done it. But with this information I'm still leaning towards the aspen being the culprit.

I thank you guys so much for the input,
I hated losing them it, it was my first experience losing snakes
And I put a lot of time into them so it really took a toll on me as far as trying to expand my collection

Also before I forget, could the wood the rack was made out of be the casue?
Idk what it was made out of but it also was newer,
My wifes dad built it

How long were the snakes in the new rack before they passed? Was the rack painted/coated/treated/sealed with anything?

Sorry, it's late in my time zone and I have to get to bed, but feel free to PM me or shoot me an email at katia@squamishserpents.ca if you need any additional help!

I'm sure somebody else will chime in with more ideas by morning, though.

Again, sorry for your loss, that really sucks bad dude. Hope you can figure out what the culprit is.

Hmm id say they were in the rack a month or so maybe longer.
And I doubt it was coated or anything like that

It sounds like poisoning to me.
I am curious if the water bowls were cleaned out with harsh soaps & not rinsed enough. Possibly the tubs cleaned out and not rinsed enough. Windows or furnature/electronics cleaned with windex or other chemicals and the door left shut. Bug spray or even Febreeze?
I am stupid cautious about things like this. I learned when I used to keep tiny delicate finches what I used in the room with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowShredder

Tractor supply? Beddings that aren't "snake" approved could contain pine which I know could kill them. I have no clue about the symptoms/timeline of that though so just spitting what's on my mind

---

You sure about this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

You sure about this?

---

I was waiting for you to chime in about that.

Since you were gone when they were being cared for, ANYTHING could have happened. But if you're suspecting it was the aspen, and it wasn't purchased at a pet store or reptile show, it could have been treated with pesticides or other harsh chemicals. or even been stored in the same warehouse as harsh chemicals and some spilled on that batch. 5 snakes don't just up and die like that. Even something like crypto wouldn't do that.

It sounds like its going to be hard yo pinpoint exactly what caused this and I appreciate wvwryones input.
I guess I'll just stick to newspaper for bedding, I havemt had any problems since we started using newspaper

There are a 1000s things it could be but I always look to the most obvious.

What are the temps as of today? High low surface and ambient?

There are no natural chemicals in woods and or organics that have concentrations that kill fast. There is things that are not particularly good but it is more likely to cause illness. Even raw cedar is only a respiratory irritant it is not good but could that kill in a short time? Unlikely.

If it is not simple environmental (probe being pulled loose) I would look to external chemical PAM or NIX being the common culprits. Other insecticides follow. Strong cleaners may also be possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by txcoker

I was waiting for you to chime in about that.

---

When people quit spouting lies, I'll quit chiming in.

Letting this type of stuff slide is what leads to bad info permeating this hobby.

Hot spot is 92-93 and all I'm using is a herpstat, with flexwatt heat tape

Probably a long shot, but do you still have the bedding so it can be tested for contaminants or pesticides?

What brand bedding?

Does it have a non aspen smell to it?
Chemical smell?

Did they all die on the same day? If so I would think temps had something to do with it.
Unless something was sprayed or used to clean around all of them at the same time.

Where there other snakes in that same rack that lived?

Just to add.
Here is a Black Rat Snake that I have found in this tree 3 years in a row.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/10/e6a2yga2.jpg

I'm not sure on the species of tree but it is an evergreen type.
I have never done studies on cedar and snakes but I doubt it would kill a snake that quick. You would see others signs way before death.

I hope the rest of your collection stays healthy and you get some type of closer on this.
I'm sorry this has happened.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

When people quit spouting lies, I'll quit chiming in.

Letting this type of stuff slide is what leads to bad info permeating this hobby.

---

I apologize, you are right

Whoa, wait, something that threw me off, here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shadow240sx

Well I just had 5 ball pythons die, out of nowhere.
Now I am taking the rest to a vet tomorrow.
But I am hoping for others opinions.

When I looked at them they were bloated looking.
And it was extremely random.
I just got another snake who was among the ones who died.
Plz any information on what it could be would be appreciated.
I just want to know what steps to take now.

---

you seemed like it JUST happened.

But then here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shadow240sx

Its been like 2 months since this happened, I am in the military and away when it happened.
I just got back and have had no way to do any real research or really anything.
And I have had no deaths since,
When it happened my wife got rid of the bedding and swotched to newspaper
And moved all the snakes from our house to her dads.
I just got them all back today well what's left
And they all seem fine.
I apologize for not mentioning this earlier but maybe it will help to know this.

---

you say it's been a while? Your posts in between sound like it just happened too. Am I missing something? I checked your previous threads and the only others are from the end of January and say nothing about this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

When people quit spouting lies, I'll quit chiming in.

Letting this type of stuff slide is what leads to bad info permeating this hobby.

---

I don't mind your input, I have learned from some of your posts. I am also a pine user.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Whoa, wait, something that threw me off, here:

you seemed like it JUST happened.

But then here:


you say it's been a while? Your posts in between sound like it just happened too. Am I missing something? I checked your previous threads and the only others are from the end of January and say nothing about this.

---

Good catch, Slaw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Whoa, wait, something that threw me off, here:

you seemed like it JUST happened.

But then here:


you say it's been a while? Your posts in between sound like it just happened too. Am I missing something? I checked your previous threads and the only others are from the end of January and say nothing about this.

---

Ok glad I'm not the only one who did not understand and was confused by the posts.

I noticed that too but I figured maybe he just found out about it when he got home or something.

But now that you point it out, yeah the first post sounds like the OP was there and found them dead?

Who knows...

Since it happened 2 months ago, in a different location, they've been moved since with different bedding and set up, I doubt anyone can tell you anything about what happened to the snakes.

Could you detail out a timeline of what happened when, including what set up and where the snakes were? Becuase it's very confusing when you said it just happened all at once, then over a few days, then two months ago, they were bloated but you weren't there and just found out....

So I think it's just confusing now, what happened when to how many.

If 5 snakes all died in a 2 day period, you were not there, with no access to the snakes and a non-experienced person was caring for them... my first guess would be a temp spike from a misplaced thermo-probe or a accidentally turned up thermostat.

Otherwise, you have no way to know if someone sprayed a room air freshener, or insect spray, or burned a candle, or tripped over the thermostat cord.... etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Since it happened 2 months ago, in a different location, they've been moved since with different bedding and set up, I doubt anyone can tell you anything about what happened to the snakes.

Could you detail out a timeline of what happened when, including what set up and where the snakes were? Becuase it's very confusing when you said it just happened all at once, then over a few days, then two months ago, they were bloated but you weren't there and just found out....

So I think it's just confusing now, what happened when to how many.

If 5 snakes all died in a 2 day period, you were not there, with no access to the snakes and a non-experienced person was caring for them... my first guess would be a temp spike from a misplaced thermo-probe or a accidentally turned up thermostat.

Otherwise, you have no way to know if someone sprayed a room air freshener, or insect spray, or burned a candle, or tripped over the thermostat cord.... etc.

---

Burning candles can be harmful to them? :confusd:

I think on a regular basis it could harm them, especially if scented.

Do I think it would cause 5 snakes to drop dead? Likely not

No, a candle probably wouldn't cause 5 snakes to drop dead. But scented candles can be harmful. Some citronella candles will drive me out of a room, so I'd imagine they do put a lot of stuff into the air. If spray air fresheners can be harmful, then I am assuming(I know) that a scented candle(s) could also be harmful.

Yeah definitely harmful. And apparently citronella candles are worse for you than second hand smoke.

There are a lot of possible long term things that can kill. There are not a long list of short term things I am confused over a time line now was it a short term (days) or long term (months)?

Long term I might be tempted to look at disease or chemicals I do not think air fresheners or candles over a short term and it seem unlikely to be a daily practice over months. I would look at cleaners or insecticides or temps. The OP posted hot spot surface? temps only not a full set. Dramatically low ambient will kill as well maybe not as fast but...

Has there been any use of insecticides mite treatments or anything else?

What is the disinfectant used and what cleaners?

Sorry this is late yes to clear it up, I was away while it all went down and just came back the night prior to posting
I didn't see time as an issue so I left it out.
But then once it seemed that maybe since it had been a little bit since it all went down
Then it might be easier for people with experience to help me.

I apologize for the confusion.

OK fair did all the animals die in close succession or farther apart. can you post an accurate time line? It might help some.

I can give as accurate as a hysterical wife told me.
According to her she had 4 dead while doing her daily check,
And said 1 more died that night or early next morning.
And no deaths since.