Leopard Pied?

Hey all, been eyeballing this snake for awhile now. Seller is saying it is leopard pied but I am not seeing the leopard.....granted I am nowhere near a leopard pied ID expert. I am pretty good at IDing leopards vs normals but throw in the pied gene and you got me. It makes the difference on this being a $500 snake or a $1500 snake. Opinions? Thx!

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...52817907_n.jpg

Based on other pictures, I wouldn't say a very very low white Leopard Pied would be a completely outrageous claim. :u
Hopefully you'll get more opinions.

x 2. It doesn't really look like a "normal" pied to me. The pattern is awesome either way. If the seller is claiming it's a leopard pied though, I would think he should be able to provide some sort of proof of it's genetics - ie: pics of the parents, etc.

He got the snake as a "possible pied" from a leopard pied pairing....I am not exactly sure what the parents were but there were leopards and pieds produced in the clutch. So he was looking to trade it as a possible leopard. At the time I was willing to take the gamble but he accepted another trade deal. Apparently that trade deal fell thru but now he has this snake advertised as a leopard pied. Before it was a possible leopard pied. So....I was going to do about a $700 trade deal which I thought was fair for a "possible leopard" as I figured if it wasn't I was still getting a male pied but since then I have acquired another male pied and do not need another.....which is why I am trying to get opinions.

Don't know much about the morph but if you look towards the end of the snake there is a patch of white. May just be super low white. Could you ask the guy for some better photos?

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If I'm not mistaken the original leopards came from pieds, not that it means anything just mentioning it.

Is he advertising as leopard het pied or leopard pied?

As far as just leopard, yes I see leopard.

Let me rephrase the question....is this a regular pied or a leopard pied? I know this is a low white pied but is there also leopard? Everything I have read and all research I have done (mostly on Bush League) says most leopard pieds are brighter, have high white (rarely if ever are low/no white) and have more dots/circles. I asked 2 breeders and they said it's just a regular pied but I wanted more input. Again...it's a big gamble should I decide to take it. Thanks!

I am inclined to say it is not a LeopardPied but is just a very low-white Pied

with the guy flip flopping about the genetics, if it was a female I'd go for it, but since you already have a male pied I'd pass.

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Originally Posted by tikigator

Let me rephrase the question....is this a regular pied or a leopard pied? I know this is a low white pied but is there also leopard? Everything I have read and all research I have done (mostly on Bush League) says most leopard pieds are brighter, have high white (rarely if ever are low/no white) and have more dots/circles. I asked 2 breeders and they said it's just a regular pied but I wanted more input. Again...it's a big gamble should I decide to take it. Thanks!

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Ok I see the white towards the end now. I would call it just a pied. The pied gene naturally whacks out patterns so it very well could be the case here.

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Originally Posted by qegalpal

with the guy flip flopping about the genetics, if it was a female I'd go for it, but since you already have a male pied I'd pass.

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haha yeah if it were female I would get her for sure but it's a male...and I actually was going to snag him anyway because a month ago I had needed a male pied but when the guy told me he was doing another trade deal for him I found myself a nice pied male (actually ended up with 2, long story). So now that his trade deal fell thru I have the option to possibly get this guy again, but now that I have 2 male pieds I really don't need a 3rd (success in numbers yes I know but 3 males of the same morph is a tad extreme for my small collection) unless of course I get a very strong response from people that the odds are high this male is carrying the leopard gene. I actually sent Peter Kahl a pic today so I will see if the leopard king will respond :)

thanks again for everyone's input! u guys rock :gj:

I wouldn't spend that much money on uncertain genetics

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Originally Posted by liv

I wouldn't spend that much money on uncertain genetics

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I agree. And I'm pretty sure all leopards are 100% het pied just for future reference.

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Originally Posted by kevinb

I agree. And I'm pretty sure all leopards are 100% het pied just for future reference.

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That theory has yet to prove out.
I know that Greg Graziani has something going on with some of his Leopards which is either a strain that's compatible with already established Pieds or the alledged Super Leopard is a Pied mimicker but it's still up for debate with other animals of the morph so I believe it would be very unwise to go on the assumption that all Leopards are het for Piebald.

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Originally Posted by MisterKyte

That theory has yet to prove out.
I know that Greg Graziani has something going on with some of his Leopards which is either a strain that's compatible with already established Pieds or the alledged Super Leopard is a Pied mimicker but it's still up for debate with other animals of the morph so I believe it would be very unwise to go on the assumption that all Leopards are het for Piebald.

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Thanks for correcting me. I've heard what I posted originally a few times so I was going based off that.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

I am inclined to say it is not a LeopardPied but is just a very low-white Pied

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I would agree that it looks like a low white pied with no leopard. I would pass if I were you especially since it is such a close call on the genetics.

All Leopards are at least 50% pied

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Originally Posted by Dube79

All Leopards are at least 50% pied

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That's not really true either...

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Originally Posted by MisterKyte

That theory has yet to prove out.
I know that Greg Graziani has something going on with some of his Leopards which is either a strain that's compatible with already established Pieds or the alledged Super Leopard is a Pied mimicker but it's still up for debate with other animals of the morph so I believe it would be very unwise to go on the assumption that all Leopards are het for Piebald.

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I would say it's more true that the theory is yet to be disproven. So far, all leopards have been het pied. The theory is that not enough outbreeding has been done to separate the pied gene from the leopard gene, or that they are possibly inseparable.

It doesn't look like a normal pied to me but I would only buy if the seller is reputable.

Thanks everyone. And yes supposedly the theory thus far is all leopards are het pied but I just purchased a leopard 100% het pied girl (leopard x pied breeding) to be on the safe side as I have heard too much speculation on whether or not that theory holds 100% true. I appreciate everyone's opinions. :)

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Originally Posted by tikigator

Thanks everyone. And yes supposedly the theory thus far is all leopards are het pied but I just purchased a leopard 100% het pied girl (leopard x pied breeding) to be on the safe side as I have heard too much speculation on whether or not that theory holds 100% true. I appreciate everyone's opinions. :)

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Do you know if that pairing produced any pieds?

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Originally Posted by joebad976

Do you know if that pairing produced any pieds?

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Sorry I rechecked and she was from a leopard pied x pastel pairing...my point was she is 100% het pied just to be safe and not relying on the theory that all leopards are automatically het pieds.