for Sale in Germany: 100% het black eye lucy, gene that interacts with fire.

Hi there :)

First of all, im not an expert when it comes to the fire-gene and the associated gene complex (disco, fire, sulfur, vanilla).

One of the most reputable breeders in Germany, Stefan Broghammer, has a gene for sale that behaves like follows: it doesnt look like fire, it doesnt look much like anything familiar but not quite normal either. Some strike me as really outstandingly beautiful. When you breed the gene to fire, you get a nice black-eyed leucistic that looks just like a super fire.

You can see them here:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/index.php..._15_16_758_717

Unfortunately its in german, its about the snakes labeled ""het" Black Eye Lucy (M&S Linie)". They also have regular fires.

Its a reputable breeder, that is out of question, he authored and co-authored and published a number of books about snakes, and ball pythons. He even almost got a species of python named after him, but people abbreviate from python reticulatus broghammerus to python reticulatus. He also has for sale fire-like hatchlings that hatched from a fire-like looking ghana oddball that proved out to be genetic, and clearly labels them as "question" and "unproven", or even "Looks like fire to me, but who knows?".

So the gene is definitively for real, he sells them for years now, and they do what they are supposed to do. Considering the quantities, im quite sure that he gets them by breeding black-eye lucys that he produced with the gene to normals, and then sorts out the fires.

Now, my question for the fire-experts:

is this something new, or is it something that is already known under a different name? Fire is part of a gene complex, together with disco and sulfur and vanilla. Could it be one of these other already known genes? Yes you will need the link and need to look at some snake pics for this, so ill post some examples of the mystery gene to make it easier for you with the german website:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/product_i...ducts_id=23136
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/product_i...ducts_id=24423
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/product_i...ducts_id=24424
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/product_i...ducts_id=24425 <--- i like this one the most

(EDIT: these links will go dead as snakes are sold, the top link should stay working)

so is it just all vanilla, or disco, or sulfur? Or is it a new gene in the black eye lucy complex? Or is it nothing except a black eye lucy-maker gene and we should keep calling it "het black eye lucy"? I think it will be an interesting riddle to solve. Im familiar with the fire-gene, but im ignorant about the other genes in this complex, so im lost here, cant get it figured out.

Wow, that was a complicated post.

I would not say it does not look like Fire... I see bright color, blushing and a head stamp. Would need to see it with a few hundred more grams on it.

Also there are more Fire lines than just Fire and Sulfur already. Flame and Ember come to mind. So finding another line is no where near out of the realm of possibility.

I'm not seeing pics of the snake? Can anyone repost them for me?

http://ms-reptilien.shopgate.com/category/333734383636 let your iPhone take you here!! I looked around at the different stuff wishing I knew German haha but those hets you mentioned I like them ha they just look different then most other stuff this newb sees :) but idk how much they cost and I'm sure shipping would be killer

everyone that answers emails or the phone at www.ms-reptilien.de can speak english very well, so you can just request the data you need translated or explained. You can also just copypaste here what you want translated and ill translate it for you right here, if its about the topic in question ;)


i didnt post images, i linked to the snakes for sale. The way the website is organized the larger images are only available embedded in some other code, which usually means they dont want people to download the images. A right-click is not enough, you need the sourcecode to download the images, or a screenshot. Its easy to hack by looking at the html sourcecode, so i *COULD* link or embed directly to the pictures here, but then i would make it easy for others to leech the images.

so, what is it? similar to something known, or is it something new? i mean, the gene ^^

Wish I could tell you if it's new it's gorgeous tho I love what it seems to do to the patterns. I hope someone with more experience then me sees this!

They interact with fires becaues they are fires.... They are just their own line from Africa.

Stefan is an importer and goes to Africa himself and hand pics stuff.

I think the posts herein might help to answer your questions

http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-pyt...tml#post836546

is there a gene known in the black-eye-lucy complex that, in the heterozygous form, does some kind of pattern reduction?

i mean, in contrast to fire, this gene doesnt seem to affect the color on its own, but maybe it does something to the pattern, the shapes seem to go a bit into the direction of enchi or mystic. I dont think its fire because i dont see it doing anything to color. Fire does something to the color, and alternate lines of fire are typically advertised as doing even more to the color.

basically im still waiting for the big deal breaker: someone coming along, showing that it looks similar to an already known gene in this gene complex, or showing that its similar to a known fire line. Otherwise, after a while, if we can agree that its new, we could move on to a different question... how should we call it? The guy named pinstripe, but wont name his own stuff.

Honestly I am not sure what you are looking at. Stefan is selling them as fires...... They look like fires to me and when bred to a known fire line they make a Black Eyed Lucy. :confusd:

Fires come in many colors and patterns. Some have almost normal paterns and some can have super reduced and others wacky.



http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2312.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_6726.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Fires come in many colors and patterns. Some have almost normal paterns and some can have super reduced and others wacky.



http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_2312.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...1/100_6726.jpg

---

x2

My fire male:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/26/butyqume.jpg

My fire female:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/26/quqytu4a.jpg

Maybe its overall helpful if i just link the thumbnails properly, they are not bad and i dont need to break any copyright or hacking-related laws :D

this first one is older:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...lucy1198of.jpg

young ones:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy691of.jpg

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy696of.jpg


http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy704of.jpg

belly shot, the old one and one young one, apparently sneakily done from under the transparent table:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...lucy1198uf.jpg
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...elucy691uf.jpg


the young ones, are they colorful enough to be fires? still the same questions, not convinced of anything so far :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

Maybe its overall helpful if i just link the thumbnails properly, they are not bad and i dont need to break any copyright or hacking-related laws :D

this first one is older:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...lucy1198of.jpg

young ones:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy691of.jpg

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy696of.jpg


http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy704of.jpg

belly shot, the old one and one young one, apparently sneakily done from under the transparent table:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...lucy1198uf.jpg
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...elucy691uf.jpg


the young ones, are they colorful enough to be fires? still the same questions, not convinced of anything so far :)

---

Personally, i see:
Normal
Fire
Weird reduced normal
Weird reduced normal

I already looked at the pictures and read what he has to say about them. Like I said though, he is selling them as fires and they LOOK like fires. We personaly have produced fires that looked exactly like those from the first fire I posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

Maybe its overall helpful if i just link the thumbnails properly, they are not bad and i dont need to break any copyright or hacking-related laws :D

this first one is older:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...lucy1198of.jpg

young ones:

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy691of.jpg

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy696of.jpg


http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/25...elucy704of.jpg

belly shot, the old one and one young one, apparently sneakily done from under the transparent table:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...lucy1198uf.jpg
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/images/im...elucy691uf.jpg


the young ones, are they colorful enough to be fires? still the same questions, not convinced of anything so far :)

---

As others have said they are just a new line of Fires. And out of the 4 pics you posted #2,#3 and #4 all scream nice reduced Fire!
Since he was the one that imported them and has proven that they are in the BlkEL complex he can call them anything he wants, which he seems to like just calling them het. BlkEL.
There are new lines of many of the different complex animals imported on a regular basis.

definitely looks like a fire top and bottom :gj:

This is one of them there pointless threads.

I prefer the lighter lines of fires but as pretty much everyone has stated... there prob all fires, ill show u a couple of pics of different ones.
First up a fire (lighter one)
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...s/DSC00722.jpg
and next is a sulfur mojave breeding a fire... the female is kinda brown and not the best example of a fire IMO but she still should make nice white snakes
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...psaaecf0b2.jpg