Bioactive Substrate System

I'm following The Art of Keeping Snakes (along with some helpful tips from a few others) for creating a Bioactive Substrate System for my ball python. I know I will probably be able to answer my own question as time goes on--but if anyone has any experience with this, I have a water question:

I ended up using some "larger-ish" lava rocks in the rock/water layer----so the rock/water layer is pretty uneven (with dips and valleys as you look through the tank). Because it is so uneven I have some substrate significantly either above the water or slightly submerged in the water. I know I don't want any rotting--so too moist isn't good--but we also want decent humidity for the snake as well. I will definitely be using a different rock when we schedule a redo--however I don't want to take the whole tank apart to change out the rocks now if I don't need to. Any tips/suggestions welcome.

PS. We put the snake in his new Vivarium last night and he was a completely different snake!!! He LOVES it!!!

Pictures?

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Pictures?

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LOL--I've been so consumed by monitoring the temps and humidity that I have not even taken a single pic! I will try take some tonight and post. I'm still researching and working on the final plant list--so its a little bare yet. I have a few in there that probably won't last the week. I really enjoyed watching him explore and actually try to burrow down into it a little bit. He was REALLY active and wanting to explore everything and every corner.

Can you give us more info on the bio active substrate system?

Are you creating a microfauna in the substrate?

Consider this thread FOLLOWED, I am very very interested. I'd love to get something like that going someday. :worship:

Very neat idea, can't wait to see pictures.

I don't like the idea of leaving waste in my snakes enclosure, personally.

I think it would best to pick up all solid waste.
You would have to have a huge enclosure to support the clean up crews that would take down that much waste.

Springtails, isopods would need it to be moist at some level.
My native tanks "cleans" itself but I don't have the large amounts of waste a snake would leave.

I love ideas like this.

interesting, unfortunately, like most others, i know nothing about it. But it is really interesting!


can you link online sources to this all, the whole subject? Maybe some of us can somehow help after we did read up on it. Also to the others, related links explaining what it is about? i could go into questions like.... is the water underneath steady or free to move, how far above the water level is the ground for the snake, etc, many questions. But sources, and then reading up, and then suggestions/questions is probarbly the way to go.

EDIT: so much i do know: big stones are the problem, since you cannot easily turn small stones into big stones. Small stones are no problem, just combine the following: hammer, stone, outdoor. Dont discard a stone because it is too large, show some manlyhood :D Sounds like quite a soft stone anyway.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I think it would best to pick up all solid waste.
You would have to have a huge enclosure to support the clean up crews that would take down that much waste.

Springtails, isopods would need it to be moist at some level.
My native tanks "cleans" itself but I don't have the large amounts of waste a snake would leave.

I love ideas like this.

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Absolutely, solids are removed.

My experience is limited to T's and a hognose viv. The bio active T's enclosure I had like you dips that placed the substrate into the water. This became a problem, the substrate became saturated from wicking everytime it was raised. When allowed to dry out the system started to crash. It became clear that I had to even it out. I added to the larger stones I used the hydroponic balls and used them to even it all out. This in the end was far better. I would suggest sooner than later as you don't have as many established plants and such. As time passes it becomes a bigger and bigger job.


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My tips from my extended use of bioactive substrate in a few vivariums:

You need larger volume of caging and substrate than "typical" setups for any given animal.

Removing waste when you can is still a fantastic idea.

I've had less success with "stirring" and more success with "fluffing" the substrate occasionally. Anaerobic bacteria aren't what you want to promote, but you also dont really want to bury any waste as deep as possible.

Isopods and springtails make great janitors. Isopods and fungus helps take care of any waste, and springtails help get rid of excess fungus growth.

Fungus growth is often a good thing, but not always. Usually though it means that waste of some sort is getting taken care of. Mushrooms are kinda cool when/if they start to appear. If you see one in the morning and it's disappeared by nighttime, that's normal from my experience. Fungus growth in an established vivarium is also a good indicator that some spot cleaning would be a good idea. I don't like the "fuzzy" fungus, usually means I missed a big poop.

Terrestrial snakes aren't the best choice for bioactive substrate, but that doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't be done. Always be willing to evaluate your progress and determine if your snake's home is a healthy one. The only snakes I've kept on bioactive substrate were carpet pythons that were under 250 grams, in large exo terras.

I've only ever done bioactive substrate successfully with tropical, humid, jungle-y environments. I use a Mistking for multiple mistings every day, more mistings in the dry winter and fewer in the humid summer months. I highly recommend mistkings for planted vivariums and bioactive substrates. Bone dry substrate doesn't do a good job to support the kind of beneficial bacteria, microfauna, and fungi that keep the world clean.

My substrate setup is hydroton drainage layer, a sheet of some kind of non-rusting screen mesh over the hydroton (various types of window screen will work), and "ABG mix" substrate, you can probably find an old thread on it by searching for "atlanta botanical gardens". I'm getting close to a 2 year mark for some of my vivariums running on the same substrate in my crested gecko cages. If I ever get around to it I might do an update for how it is holding up (very well, plants and geckos are HAPPY!), I've also been thinking of performing a soil test on my substrate.

A good ABG mix can last for years.
I got lucky and found springtails in with my Ts. :)

I think a good layer of dry leaf litter would work well with a snake.
What type of snakes are you working with?


On a smaller scale, I can keep my substrate moist on the bottom and pretty dry on top. This allows isopods and springtails to live.

In my native frog, salamander and toad tank. I have 1/3 ABG type of mix with moss for a top layer, 1/3 bark and 1/3 rock. I have isopods, earth worms, slugs , snails and B. dubia keeping things clean and keeps everyone fed.

Building a gradient or rock ledges will help allow the snake to chose a dryer spot while keeping your clean up crews happy.

Check out some of the Dart Frog boards. Those guys love this type of stuff.

I'll get some pics later on today.

3skulls, do your dubias play well with others? I've never thought of using cockroaches for janitor duty, but it sounds like something that could work wonderfully well.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

My experience is limited to T's and a hognose viv. The bio active T's enclosure I had like you dips that placed the substrate into the water. This became a problem, the substrate became saturated from wicking everytime it was raised. When allowed to dry out the system started to crash. It became clear that I had to even it out. I added to the larger stones I used the hydroponic balls and used them to even it all out. This in the end was far better. I would suggest sooner than later as you don't have as many established plants and such. As time passes it becomes a bigger and bigger job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Great idea!! Thanks for the hydroponic balls tip--that is exactly the problem I see happening! This is a temporary set up while we build a custom tank/cabinet for our little guy, however, I'm going to go ahead and take out the substrate, remove some of the rocks--perhaps use a hammer and break the larger rocks down and add some balls to even it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

My tips from my extended use of bioactive substrate in a few vivariums:

You need larger volume of caging and substrate than "typical" setups for any given animal.

Removing waste when you can is still a fantastic idea.

I've had less success with "stirring" and more success with "fluffing" the substrate occasionally. Anaerobic bacteria aren't what you want to promote, but you also dont really want to bury any waste as deep as possible.

Isopods and springtails make great janitors. Isopods and fungus helps take care of any waste, and springtails help get rid of excess fungus growth.

Fungus growth is often a good thing, but not always. Usually though it means that waste of some sort is getting taken care of. Mushrooms are kinda cool when/if they start to appear. If you see one in the morning and it's disappeared by nighttime, that's normal from my experience. Fungus growth in an established vivarium is also a good indicator that some spot cleaning would be a good idea. I don't like the "fuzzy" fungus, usually means I missed a big poop.

Terrestrial snakes aren't the best choice for bioactive substrate, but that doesn't mean it can't/shouldn't be done. Always be willing to evaluate your progress and determine if your snake's home is a healthy one. The only snakes I've kept on bioactive substrate were carpet pythons that were under 250 grams, in large exo terras.

I've only ever done bioactive substrate successfully with tropical, humid, jungle-y environments. I use a Mistking for multiple mistings every day, more mistings in the dry winter and fewer in the humid summer months. I highly recommend mistkings for planted vivariums and bioactive substrates. Bone dry substrate doesn't do a good job to support the kind of beneficial bacteria, microfauna, and fungi that keep the world clean.

My substrate setup is hydroton drainage layer, a sheet of some kind of non-rusting screen mesh over the hydroton (various types of window screen will work), and "ABG mix" substrate, you can probably find an old thread on it by searching for "atlanta botanical gardens". I'm getting close to a 2 year mark for some of my vivariums running on the same substrate in my crested gecko cages. If I ever get around to it I might do an update for how it is holding up (very well, plants and geckos are HAPPY!), I've also been thinking of performing a soil test on my substrate.

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THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH for the tips! You've given me much to google and research. It sounds like you have a lot of experience with this--I appreciate your time! I feel pretty strongly about using this system and am committed to working to get it right for our snake. He's a young Ball Python--OUR FIRST SNAKE--and I cannot believe how in love with him I am. Please correct me if I'm wrong--but the Ball Python is a terrestrial jungle-ish snake--that needs humidity--which is our main point of struggle (maintaining an appropriate level). I have read and heard so many conflicting facts and am not sure "who to trust" (which is a problem with internet research--at this point, I just go with my gut. I'm a mom of two so my instincts are good)--can you point me to a trustworthy resource for temps and ranges? I've had a somewhat difficult time finding info on bioactive substrates (and I cannot image why more people aren't into this).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

3skulls, do your dubias play well with others? I've never thought of using cockroaches for janitor duty, but it sounds like something that could work wonderfully well.

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They don't seem to mess with anything unless its dead. I had a few in with one of my Rat snakes and they would come up like zombies to chew on the pinky before it was ate.

I let my frogs / toads brumate over the winter. That room is / was around 50
The dubia are still alive! I have seen a few dead ones here and there.
I'm guessing here, but I would think they are better for eating left over foods, plant waste more than eating animal waste. Could be wrong.

They did live in with the Rat snakes without any other food source.
The good thing is they can survive in a dryer substrate.

Someone I know said she bought dubias for her T's and the T's refused or something and she ended up forgetting about the container which she had left in her closet. 4 months later the dubias were still alive and bigger. They survived and even grew without food or water lol.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/26/huseny3a.jpg

dubia are "laid back" :p

With a BP, it would be cool to make a very deep substrate with a termite burrow. Something sealed off that will stay dry, with easy access.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

With a BP, it would be cool to make a very deep substrate with a termite burrow. Something sealed off that will stay dry, with easy access.

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Yea I would be afraid you wouldn't be able to get the bp out lol.

Couple pics of the "native" tank.
Has a ton of caves and hiding places. No one is out yet :(

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/27/yhemuqyd.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/27/zugaqevy.jpg

Once everything starts to wake up. I'm hoping to add more plants. I don't want to big them to much right now.