Remodeling in the Snake Tank! (Pic-Heavy Thread)

Ever since I invested in my 40-gal breeder, I've been trying to find the best way to situate it to provide Magnus with adequate cover and comfort zones. He's growing FAST, but it's still a bit big for him, so yesterday a changed a few things around to accommodate for the size of both the tank and the snake.

Here's the result:

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/...psa827c6f4.jpg

The whole tank, plus the remnants of my project yesterday, a multitool and a pair of scissors.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3219a3fd.jpg

My favorite new feature, a foliage swing. It provides overhead cover while staying out of the way of the space as a whole. It's fastened with pieces of leather thong I had lying around, knotted through the top screen.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/...ps613d0e16.jpg

He's really fond of that sandstone hide there, but I put another little cubby right behind it, the white tube in this picture. This is his warm side, so the steel warms up a bit, but the substrate and paper towel beneath it is enough to keep it insulated. It's cozy, but no hotter to my fingers than the substrate beneath. I haven't seen him use it yet, but he's digesting at the moment.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4b6adf1b.jpg

And his cool side. (Bonus: spot the Beep Nose!)

Great looking setup. I really like that swing you have in there :)

Thanks! :D I'm pretty proud of it. It's easy enough for him to get onto, should he so choose, and I can also pull it out without everything getting dirty at feeding time, since it's no longer down in the substrate.

Looks nice.
I would suggest changing the steel for PVC or ABS if you really want a tube in there though. Sharp edges are easily sanded off and the thicker, slightly less heat conductive wall may save a trip to the vet if the tube gets pushed lower in the substrate and closer to the UTH. Also, there is no way PVC or ABS will rust from misting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven01

Looks nice.
I would suggest changing the steel for PVC or ABS if you really want a tube in there though. Sharp edges are easily sanded off and the thicker, slightly less heat conductive wall may save a trip to the vet if the tube gets pushed lower in the substrate and closer to the UTH. Also, there is no way PVC or ABS will rust from misting.

---

Oh crap, I didn't even think about the rusting. Thank you for that tip. I did work pretty hard to sand the edges, but it's not really worth the exposed metal rusting over. And yeah, I intentionally kept it away from the exact location of the UTH, but sometimes he rearranges things himself, as balls are apt to do. Heh. So I'll look around for PVC instead. Thanks! =]

Several coats of pet safe paint may prevent rusting if heat transfer isn't going to harm your snake.
And, again it does look nice. I bet it is very enjoyable watching your BP cruise and explore the night before feeding day.

umm rust is not toxic. And if the UTH covers a larger area, i dont think its likely for the tube to get too warm at the bottom. the warmth is spreading out over the surface area of that tube, since it has high thermal conductivity. With this shape, high thermal conductivity just doesnt mean that when it touches the UTH, it will get as hot as the UTH at the bottom of the pipe. It means that heat gets distributed in the whole structure of the pipe.


so i see no need to throw it out, you might as well keep it. You might test how warm it gets when you dig it deep into the substrate when the snake is taking a bath or something. worry about rust if rust appears, since you can easily sand it off. sanding off some fresh rust is easier than sanding off edges. then you can still apply a coating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

umm rust is not toxic. And if the UTH covers a larger area, i dont think its likely for the tube to get too warm at the bottom. the warmth is spreading out over the surface area of that tube, since it has high thermal conductivity. With this shape, high thermal conductivity just doesnt mean that when it touches the UTH, it will get as hot as the UTH at the bottom of the pipe. It means that heat gets distributed in the whole structure of the pipe.


so i see no need to throw it out, you might as well keep it. You might test how warm it gets when you dig it deep into the substrate when the snake is taking a bath or something. worry about rust if rust appears, since you can easily sand it off. sanding off some fresh rust is easier than sanding off edges. then you can still apply a coating.

---

Granted I cannot guarantee iron toxicity in reptiles why take the risk?

"Iron poisoning is an iron overload caused by a large excess of iron intake and usually refers to an acute overload rather than a gradual one. The term has been primarily associated with young children who consumed large quantities of iron supplement pills, which resemble sweets and are widely used, including by pregnant women—see overnutrition (approximately 3 grams is lethal for a 2 year old"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_poisoning
Any 2 year old considerably outweighs the largest BP so dosage could be miniscule if the function is the same biologically.
If you have contradictory info from someone like a herp vet please do share it so that I can stop spending on stainless for pet=steel with small animals.
Thanks.

I feel similarly to the above-- I know iron in excess is bad for us, so why not assume it's bad for the snake? They don't generally need supplements to what they get from their food, even most of their water intake comes from what they eat. I wouldn't want to take the chance of ignoring a rust buildup and having my snake die from metal poisoning.

I'm also not certain I believe that if the steel sat directly on the UTH for too long, it wouldn't heat up to, at the very least, a good burn for belly scales.

I would ditch the pipe and get a cork round instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven01

Granted I cannot guarantee iron toxicity in reptiles why take the risk?

"Iron poisoning is an iron overload caused by a large excess of iron intake and usually refers to an acute overload rather than a gradual one. The term has been primarily associated with young children who consumed large quantities of iron supplement pills, which resemble sweets and are widely used, including by pregnant women—see overnutrition (approximately 3 grams is lethal for a 2 year old"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_poisoning
Any 2 year old considerably outweighs the largest BP so dosage could be miniscule if the function is the same biologically.
If you have contradictory info from someone like a herp vet please do share it so that I can stop spending on stainless for pet=steel with small animals.
Thanks.

---

you need to consider how much 250 mg or 3 grams are. a bit of rust, enough to leave a visible red stain on your fingers, is maybe around 5 milligrams, upper estimate, it may only be 1 milligram. so you need to rub your fingers against rusty iron until they visibly have red dirt on them, and then lick them clean, and repeat that for 50 times at least, to get to 250 milligrams. Now how is a BP with its tiny toungue supposed to get that done?

rust doesnt look good and is hard to keep clean, but really, not poisonous or toxic. still thinking about a good analogy for 250 milligrams. a small bean, or a large pill, thats about the weight. you really need large surfaces that rust like crazy to get there, and then the snake needs to somehow scoop it all up and swallow it.

btw:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_poisoning

I am well aware of sizes and weights.

"Toxic effects begin to occur at doses above 10–20 mg/kg of elemental iron. Ingestions of more than 50 mg/kg of elemental iron are associated with severe toxicity"

^^^^ that is for humans so unless reptiles process iron differently (which they very well may) a 250 gm BP could exhibit toxic effects at a lowly 2.5-5mg, (think dragging a damp rat across exposed rust.)
Until I see info regarding reptiles metabolizing iron safely I will prefer to err on the side of caution even if it costs me a little bit more.

elemental iron means that it has not yet turned into rust, and will consume oxygen until it has turned into rust, and can also take other chemical routes instead of turning into rust.

iron powder, can burn, rust cannot burn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

elemental iron means that it has not yet turned into rust, and will consume oxygen until it has turned into rust, and can also take other chemical routes instead of turning into rust.

iron powder, can burn, rust cannot burn.

---

Rust can burn, mix it with aluminium to make poor man's thermite (do not try this inside or near anything flammable it burns at a very high temp and can melt steel containers). And, yes I know all about Fe₂O_3, Fe₃O_4, FeO, etc.
That still does not address any of the issues I asked about.
I`m not telling you not to do this as I don`t have concrete evidence either way.
What I did say is, without concrete evidence that it is safe I wouldn`t suggest people expose their reptiles to it.

To get back to the habitat itself-- Magnus only just "discovered" the tubing yesterday and it's his new favorite shedding tool. He also manages to cram himself into it as a hide, which I wasn't expecting to work, but ball pythons are crafty. Heh. I'll post a pic when Photobucket's working a little better for me. :)