Off to a bad start...

My girlfriend and I are new ball python owners. Ever since purchasing it, we've been having problems with it. We have received a barrage of information from many different sources about how to take care of our ball, but a lot of the information has been conflicting. The snake has been through a lot as the subject of our experimenting and learning and does not seem to be doing so well, and I feel bad for the little guy. I've come here today to explain the condition he's in, and get specific information to my particular case on how to treat him and keep him healthy in the future.

At current we have owned him for 6 weeks or so, he's an estimated 6 months old, 18 inches long, has only eaten one pinky in the time we've owned him during an assist feed that was precipitated by someone telling us that was a good route to go. He now also has mites. I've ordered the mite treatment including provent-a-mite from lllreptiles. Until that arrives we've been keeping him in a tub (usually he's in a terrarium with aspen snake bedding substrate) on newspaper at around 60% humidity with a UTH at about 95 degrees at his basking spot, 73 degrees ambient. We've been giving him a luke warm water bath once ever 2 days for about 30 minutes to control the mites for the time being. It's the best we can do while we wait to spray him and the terrarium. Aside from the mites, we're worried that he's getting skinny and isn't going to eat due to all the stress he's been through: having been assist fed, mites, and changing environments.

We don't want to lose our little guy. We want to clear up his mites, and leave him be under ideal conditions in his terrarium for a couple weeks without being bothered, and then get him eating regularly. Given our situation, what is the best route to take to get him on the road to health? Most specifically, should we assist feed him at all? A reptile expert that I work with has given me information that is completely opposite of everything everyone else has told me. "Never assist feed, and humidity shouldn't be higher than 20%"

Like I said, information overload!! And poor snake!

I don't have experience with mites, but I'll chime in on two other things...a 95 degree hotspot is a too high, so I'd recommend lowering that to about 85-90. Is your UTH regulated by anything?? If not, that will help with the hot spot control...UTH are notorious for having huge fluctuations in temperature and can easily heat to well over 100 degrees and burn your snake :(

Next, get a gram scale so you can monitor his weight. They are inexpensive and easily found on Amazon. In terms of the feeding, a pinky is much too small. BPs come out of the egg already big enough to eat mouse fuzzies. At 18 inches, he is likely ready for a mouse hopper at least. Everyone on this site will tell you to feed a prey item that is 10-15% of your snake's weight (hence the usefulness of the gram scale!) and no bigger than the widest part of the snake. Once you can determine this, you'll be in a better position to offer your snake food that he may be more interested in. I think while he's going through all the stress, assist feeding is not a good idea. This is a last resort option and he is not likely to eat due to all the changes.

So, get the mites taken care of and work on getting him more appropriately-sized food once he's had some time to settle, like you said. And humidity should never be lower than 20%!! Keep it around 50%...that doesn't sound like much of a reptile expert to me!

information wise, to sort out the nonsense, the best way is to get good books about BPs. Books can also contain nonsense, but in general they are written by people with lots of real experience that already sorted out the nonsense.

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"Never assist feed, and humidity shouldn't be higher than 20%"

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that, for example, is pure nonsense. When the snake doesnt eat on its own, after trying live food, and too much time is passing, first choice is to assist feed as non-invasively as possible, in a way that leaves the snake with the choice to drop or swallow the food item. and 20% humidity is way off, thats for scorpions, not for a snake.

Do not assist feed, balls can go months without food, and assist feeding causes unnecessary stress. It's really a last resort at best.

Lower the hot spot to 90 degrees, and try to get the ambient up to 80. Humidity sounds good, and should be between 40% - 60%.

Keep him on paper towels until the mites are cleared, and make sure you very carefully read the provent-a-mite instructions. Do not spray it on the snake, and wait until it is completely dry before placing him in the treated enclosure.

Make sure he has a water dish that is deep enough for him to dip his nose in for drinking, and refresh the water at least every 3 days, more often if it gets dirty.

Give him a couple of hides that are barely big enough for him. He will feel very secure in a nice, tight hide. Old boxes, tupperware containers, and other household items can be used as hides.

Wait until the mites are cleared before trying to feed again. Also avoid handling him as much as possible until he eats. That will give him time to build up his appetite, and minimize stress. Once the mites are cleared, try offering him an adult mouse (frozen/thawed or live if he doesn't take the f/t).

And kudos to you for seeking out the information to take good care of him. Many people don't bother. It's great that you care so much about his well-being. :)

Poor dears. I feel your pain. And I know how upset and confused and concerned you are about your baby. Take a deep breath hon, and try to relax. This is the single most comprehensive site for information on the care of ball pythons. There are literally thousands of members here to help you, and most of us love nothing more than helping someone new experience the joys of ball python ownership.

Now. To get you off on the right foot, let's cover a few basic things. One is our caresheet: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet This will give you all the basic knowledge you probably already have, but will help you tweak a few things to optimize his conditions.

Mites are indeed a nightmare. Once you have the Provent a Mite, read it carefully and follow the instructions to the letter. You will need to treat for a minimum of 4 weeks to ensure you have eliminated both adult mites and hatching eggs. It is okay to offer him food during this time, but be prepared for him to refuse, because he's under a LOT of stress. You can also offer him a water dish big enough for him to soak in. This will eliminate the need for you to soak him and cause additional stress. Start off by offering him a live mouse hopper if you can get one, a live fuzzy rat is even better. Do not move him to feed him, that only makes things worse. Watch him carefully, but give him privacy while you wait to see if he eats. Covering part of his tub will help with this. Stay in the room with him, but don't hover with your nose pressed to the tub to see if he's going to eat. Usually you will know within about 15 minutes if he's interested or not.

If he doesn't eat, don't make a big deal out of it. Just remove the prey item and wait for at least 5 days before you try again. During this time, keep handling and disturbance to a minimum, as hard as it will be. This will make him more likely to eat when you try again.

Unless he is to the point of emaciation, by which I mean, if he looks like a triangle and not round or oval, then you may need to intervene with a feeding or two just for support. But try to avoid that if you can, it's hard on the snake and hard on you.

Keep asking us questions as you go, we want to see you and your baby happy and healthy, and we will do our best to get you both there.

Gale

I had gotten mites along time ago with Aspen bedding and the Humidity thus I switched to Newspaper and never looked back! I however do not use chemicals and used Olive oil on the paper towel and en closer which smothers the mites without the chemicals but that is just my opinion I would also try and gently putting a privacy cover over the tank to let the snake adjust with less stress when eating.

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Originally Posted by atomicwave

It's the best we can do while we wait to spray him and the terrarium.

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Please please do not spray him with the provent-a-mite! Some snakes have extreme reactions. It's poisonous. Air everything out before putting him back in the cage...also don't leave his water bowl in there. Provent a mite works wonders but remember its a bug KILLER

Hey guys, thanks for all your support and helpful tips. It seems we've done a really good job controlling the mites. He certainly doesn't have a bad case, we can't see any of them at this point. We're not foolish, we know they're still there as evidenced by the ones in his hide. The provent-a-mite can't get here soon enough. In the mean time, I've taken a few photos of the little guy to see if you guys think he's too skinny, and to see how long we should wait to feed him.

http://cl.ly/image/2u213B2B2M0G/Scre...38.12%20AM.png
http://cl.ly/image/3h2c0u3m0l1n/Scre...41.37%20AM.pnghttp://cl.ly/image/302e2l442D2V/Scre...41.52%20AM.png

He is pretty skinny, but not in danger of starving to death in my opinion. I've definitely seen worse!

Edit: I would still wait until the mites are treated before offering food, but you could offer sooner, I just don't think he would take it.

And I've found that generally mice are more appealing to ball pythons (probably because of their stronger scent), but some balls just prefer rats. So if a f/t mouse and a live mouse don't work, you could have success with a live rat pup.

Edit Again: He looks like an adult mouse or a rat pup would be about the right sized meal too.

Also, could anyone maybe help us identify his morph? There are so many and a lot of them are very similar. We think he's either a Black Head Spider, Black Pastel, Bald Gene or Normal.

IMO looks normal.
Need better pics.

Yeah he's thin, but we have seen way worse.

If his mites are minimal now, go ahead and offer him food. He may just be hungry enough to take it if you offer him live. If live is a problem for you, just make sure you really heat the prey well. A live mouse has a body temp of around 100, so if it's room temperature, he's not likely to touch it.

Gale

I'm worried that the stress he's been under due to us moving him around a lot to take care of his mites is going to keep him from wanting to eat. Also, if I buy him a live mouse to try to eat, should I feed him in his terrarium or in a separate container. Also, if he doesn't eat the mouse, what do I do with it?

Feed him it in his enclosure, there's a much better chance of him eating.


No worries of cage aggression, it doesn't really exist, at least in primitive snakes like ball pythons.

Great news everyone, Sting ate, and totally willingly!

Bought a white adult mouse from Petco tonight and put it in a cardboard box with a paper towel on the bottom with Sting. After about 5 minutes, Sting started looking around, the mouse got too close to his head, and BAM! Dead mouse. He ate it like a champ. I guess our little guy is gonna be ok after all.

Thanks to everyone for your tips and support! I'll be posting here for many years to come I'm sure!

Great to hear!

You still didn't NEED to feed him outta the cage..but..ehm. It doesn't really matter.

Good deal!

I told you he just might surprise you. One thing I have found in my experience with baby/young ball pythons. If the prey is too small, they tend to ignore it. Almost like they don't recognize it as food. I guess it would be like you come to the dinner table all hungry, mouth watering, can't wait to eat, and someone give you a single carrot stick. It's more effort than it's worth to even eat the thing, so you just leave it on the plate and go rummage in the fridge for the real food. :P

Gale

Congrats on getting it to eat! sadly it looks like you continue to get bad tips from this forum too.

No oils on any snake, that's just bad bad bad.
95 degree hot spot is just fine, in fact it's necessary in some cases to get the ambient temps you need on the cool end.
I've kept my ball pythons in tubs with 92 to 95 degree hot spots for years and haven't had a single issue doing so.
I would feed the snake in it's home, moving it is not necessary at all, and in the future might mean he doesn't eat now and then due to being moved.

Your snake is a normal ball python, not a morph :gj:

Please read and be very careful with Provent a mite, do not spray the snake, allow the snakes home to dry fully before placing the snake back into it's home.
Paper towels is best for keeping the snake on during the outbreak and during treatment.
Lightly spray the paper towels and let them fully dry before placing in the snakes home.
Lightly spray the tub/tank/enclosure and the outside of the snakes housing also, allowing to fully dry before placing the snake back in it's home.
You can also spray anywhere around the snakes enclosure that the mites could have laid their eggs, in many cases when the mites come back are probably coming back because the eggs aren't being killed on the outside of the housing.

Good luck!

The provent-a-mite just got here today but I am uncertain if I am going to use it or not. While I was waiting on it I purchased some Natural Chemistry Reptile Spray that I used on Sting for the mean time, it seems to have worked wonders. We sprayed it on the snake, wiped the enclosure with it, replaced his newspaper. We're going to do this one more time in 3 days if there is any evidence of mites remaining. He seems to be on the fast road to recovery now!

Just because the mites have been so persistent, I'd definitely use the PAM, since you have it now. There's nothing better, works like a charm. And since it's a well-controlled situation, it won't take long to wipe the rest of those eggs out. Great job overall! Good-looking snake =]

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Congrats on getting it to eat! sadly it looks like you continue to get bad tips from this forum too.

No oils on any snake, that's just bad bad bad.
95 degree hot spot is just fine, in fact it's necessary in some cases to get the ambient temps you need on the cool end.
I've kept my ball pythons in tubs with 92 to 95 degree hot spots for years and haven't had a single issue doing so.
I would feed the snake in it's home, moving it is not necessary at all, and in the future might mean he doesn't eat now and then due to being moved.

Your snake is a normal ball python, not a morph :gj:

Please read and be very careful with Provent a mite, do not spray the snake, allow the snakes home to dry fully before placing the snake back into it's home.
Paper towels is best for keeping the snake on during the outbreak and during treatment.
Lightly spray the paper towels and let them fully dry before placing in the snakes home.
Lightly spray the tub/tank/enclosure and the outside of the snakes housing also, allowing to fully dry before placing the snake back in it's home.
You can also spray anywhere around the snakes enclosure that the mites could have laid their eggs, in many cases when the mites come back are probably coming back because the eggs aren't being killed on the outside of the housing.

Good luck!

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Just quoting to add emphasis.

I'm so glad to hear he took a mouse for you. :) I wish you two many long and happy years together!