Learned a lesson today: Hides and Heat Lamps

So, I recently acquired my coworkers big normal male (like 1800+g and 4.5' in the summer) since she couldn't keep him at her parent's house anymore. She had him in a 20L with a red lamp and no hide when I got him. I got him a wood half log since it was the only thing I could find on short notice, and he was very appreciative. It gets about 100 degrees on the very top if right above it , so I keep it off to the side and it hits part of the floor lower down (I also added a spare clip I had to it to lift it up and lower the surface temp). The inside is a cozy 90. Luckily, in a few weeks, I'm getting a rack to keep him and my albino in.

In preparation for the rack, I got some reptile basics hides today in the mail. I put two in my albino's big exo terra (that I'm selling after two months of usage to switch to v70's). I put the third in the normal's tank. It was a bit big, but he figured out how to get into it. Then I went to dinner.

Two hours later I come home and he's on the opposite end hugging his water bowl. I touch the hide; its kinda ...really hot. Get out the heat gun... 130+ degrees on top. NOPE.

Checked him out, and his skin is still healthy and clean as can be; luckily. Back to the wood log for now.

Lesson learned and a warning. Plastic hides or furniture and heat lamps don't mix well (even if regulated or elevated).

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Originally Posted by Artemille

So, I recently acquired my coworkers big normal male (like 1800+g and 4.5' in the summer) since she couldn't keep him at her parent's house anymore. She had him in a 20L with a red lamp and no hide when I got him. I got him a wood half log since it was the only thing I could find on short notice, and he was very appreciative. It gets about 100 degrees on the very top if right above it , so I keep it off to the side and it hits part of the floor lower down (I also added a spare clip I had to it to lift it up and lower the surface temp). The inside is a cozy 90. Luckily, in a few weeks, I'm getting a rack to keep him and my albino in.

In preparation for the rack, I got some reptile basics hides today in the mail. I put two in my albino's big exo terra (that I'm selling after two months of usage to switch to v70's). I put the third in the normal's tank. It was a bit big, but he figured out how to get into it. Then I went to dinner.

Two hours later I come home and he's on the opposite end hugging his water bowl. I touch the hide; its kinda ...really hot. Get out the heat gun... 130+ degrees on top. NOPE.

Checked him out, and his skin is still healthy and clean as can be; luckily. Back to the wood log for now.

Lesson learned and a warning. Plastic hides or furniture and heat lamps don't mix well (even if regulated or elevated).

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If you lamp was regulated there would be no way it could get to that temperature. Put it on a dimmer or thermostat please.


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I know that. That was the set up my friend had. I'm ditching the lamp all together. Elevating it an extra six inches and switching back to wood fixed the problem for now.

The point was that the black plastic retained heat a whole lot more than the wood, even at the same distance with the same lamp.

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Originally Posted by Artemille

I know that. That was the set up my friend had. I'm ditching the lamp all together. Elevating it an extra six inches and switching back to wood fixed the problem for now.

The point was that the black plastic retained heat a whole lot more than the wood, even at the same distance with the same lamp.

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The point is you had an unregulated heat source and regardless of the furniture you could have killed your new addition.


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Wood at 100 degrees is still too hot.


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That was the state I got him at; what he was left at my house with. It's now at 94 at the highest. I corrected it immediately both when I noticed the heat that was being given off, and when I noticed the heat difference between the two hides.

A regular dimmer wouldn't change the heat retention difference between wood and plastic if kept at the same strength for each. A probed thermostat would.

The plastic got significantly warmer than the wood when next to an equal heat source. I figured someone may find that informative. I understand the chances of worse outcomes to obtain that lesson. Luckily, it was corrected in a two hour time span.

I'm glad your getting the temps correct. I was only trying to point out that it sounded like you got your new addition home and at whim, set up his enclosure.

Wither it be a probed thermostat or thermometer, more time spent looking at what your setup was providing heat wise could have avoided the temps your python was experiencing, even for a brief amount of time.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artemille

The plastic got significantly warmer than the wood when next to an equal heat source. I figured someone may find that informative. I understand the chances of worse outcomes to obtain that lesson. Luckily, it was corrected in a two hour time span.

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This to me, sounds more like the hypothesis of a science experiment, something your ball should never be the subject to.




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Nope. A big snake in a little tank was left in my house when a coworker got kicked out by her parents. I switched his hide for something darker, and bad things happened shortly after.

Now I just wait for the mailman to give me my AP rack, and everyone will be happy and comfy in a much more reliable way.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

This to me, sounds more like the hypothesis of a science experiment, something your ball should never be the subject to.




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I didn't do this for science. Science just happened.

Next time I'll make sure to google "does 3" tall plastic hide get hotter than 6" tall wood hide when placed X" below heat?" Now when someone feels the urge to google that sentence, my honest mistakes will be there for them to learn from.

well, unfortunately its not new science. its quite basic.


the plastic and the wood just have a different absorption spectrum, so they get different amounts of energy input from the same light source. non-reflecting black absorbs the most, followed by reflecting black. Also, the plastic is so thin that it conducts heat very quickly and it has a low thermal capacity. Wood is quite a good thermal insulator, especially bark from trees, and has a decent thermal capacity. shape and airflow also play a role, hot air is lighter than cool air, depending on the shape it can be trapped underneath a hide or flow out.

its all fully understood i think.

its good that you have a temp gun and noticed the problem quickly and that the snake is fine. mistakes like that happen.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

The point is you had an unregulated heat source and regardless of the furniture you could have killed your new addition.


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Main reason I don't like this forum. People when someone just says something, it's obvious that the op knows what the temps should be and he fixed the problem.

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Another thing to consider is that the RBI hides are black and black absorbs heat really well (have you ever stepped into a black car on a hot summer day :O ). All I can suggest is that you get a lamp dimmer ($10 from Home Depot) and then use your temp gun to figure out how much you need to "dim" your light so that the temperature is where it should be. You can still use your RBI hides (those are probably more comforting to your ball python than a half-log hide) while not allowing it to get horribly hot.

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Originally Posted by Gorillafist

Main reason I don't like this forum. People are complete when someone just says something, it's obvious that the op knows what the temps should be and he fixed the problem.

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Yeah 130 degree temps could have caused this

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53084950.jpg


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Oh snap

- - - Updated - - -

Oh snap

Martin82531, the OP knows the temps were wrong and she/he FIXED it. It wasn't an issue over lack of knowledge. The OP was simply letting others know that different hides can absorb heat differently and can cause different temperatures. Being aware is half the battle and I think the OP is aware and trying to correct the issue while at the same time, trying to prevent the same issue from happening to other people. The OP also just got the snake and hasn't had time to prepare or get the necessary equipment. At least the OP is making an effort at trying to correct the issue.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the way in which you deliver it can make the difference between a newcomer coming back when there is a serious issue or not coming to the reptile community at all for fear of being humiliated. That can lead to more than just one injured animal. Think about when you first started keeping ball pythons. I bet you had a lot of questions that seem silly now but were big issues for you (I know I did!). Just think about what you say and the manner in which you say it next time. I've been on forums where I was was humiliated to the point that I currently no longer post there. That's not how our community should be. We should all strive to help one another. Even the experienced keepers and breeders can always learn new things.

-gets off her soap box-

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Martin82531, the OP knows the temps were wrong and she/he FIXED it. It wasn't an issue over lack of knowledge. The OP was simply letting others know that different hides can absorb heat differently and can cause different temperatures. Being aware is half the battle and I think the OP is aware and trying to correct the issue while at the same time, trying to prevent the same issue from happening to other people. The OP also just got the snake and hasn't had time to prepare or get the necessary equipment. At least the OP is making an effort at trying to correct the issue.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but the way in which you deliver it can make the difference between a newcomer coming back when there is a serious issue or not coming to the reptile community at all for fear of being humiliated. That can lead to more than just one injured animal. Think about when you first started keeping ball pythons. I bet you had a lot of questions that seem silly now but were big issues for you (I know I did!). Just think about what you say and the manner in which you say it next time. I've been on forums where I was was humiliated to the point that I currently no longer post there. That's not how our community should be. We should all strive to help one another. Even the experienced keepers and breeders can always learn new things.

-gets off her soap box-

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Ditto.

Thank you, that saved me lots of typing and expressed what I was thinking as I read this thread to a tee.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

Yeah I'm the :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: when 130 degree temps could have caused this

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...ps53084950.jpg


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Or worse...THIS!

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...psf508e3be.jpg

Agreed. Martin, this is coming off sounding like you have never made a husbandry mistake ever in your life. Aren't you the person who posted just yesterday that you fed a moth of an unknown species that you found in your house to one of your reptiles? Did you know that a lot of moths are poisonous, not to mention all of the pesticides, herbicides, and parasites you potentially could have exposed your animal too?

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

Or worse...THIS!

http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...psf508e3be.jpg

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Thank you Brandi. I can always count on you to actually make me laugh rather than just slightly smile at a post. That caught me off guard.


Disclaimer: yes, that first pic is serious business and temps are very important etc, but this was just too damn funny. So laugh. :P