THG Heat tape. Dimmer question

Building my first rack. I am planning on getting some THG heat tape to use as Underbelly heat.
I was wondering if anyone uses this with a dimmer?

The plan is to use a dimmer in there and try to get it so that it stays a consistent 90-92f on the hotside, It will however be hooked up to a proportional thermostat just in case(johnson 419).
I have 7 shelves that will be wired in parallel, 5 of them having 1foot and the other 2 having 2 feet of heat tape installed. I will be using 4" width heat tape.
Does anyone else do this type of method or something similar?
What specifications would i be looking for on a dimmer and which type?

Any suggestions appreciated.

You cannot use 2 different sizes or lengths of flexwatt on the same thermostat. Adding a dimmer isn't going to solve the issue at all. You need 2 separate thermostats.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You cannot use 2 different sizes or lengths of flexwatt on the same thermostat. Adding a dimmer isn't going to solve the issue at all. You need 2 separate thermostats.

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Understood. I will separate the two different types of lengths into their own thermostats.

But I think you fail to see what I was really asking. THG heat tape is supposed to run at around 110-115f. I want to use a dimmer to lower the output so that it isn't getting as hot when its on.

Basically so that the thermostat will not have to shut off the heat tape unless something goes wrong, or for whatever reason it gets to hot.

A dimmer is not going to work very well. Usually you have to continue to adjust the dimmer to stay where you want it. If you are using a tstat the dimmer would be useless and would not allow the tstat to work like it should.

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Originally Posted by KMG

A dimmer is not going to work very well. Usually you have to continue to adjust the dimmer to stay where you want it. If you are using a tstat the dimmer would be useless and would not allow the tstat to work like it should.

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Sorry, I'm trying to incorporate this method because I'm using a traditional thermostat (on/off) not a proportional like previous stated. Sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by seang89

Understood. I will separate the two different types of lengths into their own thermostats.

But I think you fail to see what I was really asking. THG heat tape is supposed to run at around 110-115f. I want to use a dimmer to lower the output so that it isn't getting as hot when its on.

Basically so that the thermostat will not have to shut off the heat tape unless something goes wrong, or for whatever reason it gets to hot.

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A dimmer cannot respond to temperature change. A thermostat can. Why are you trying to cut the thermostat out of the equation? Let it do its job. What happens when the temperature in the room drops? If you are using a dimmer the thermostat won't be able to run more to keep the cage at the correct temperature.

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Sorry, I'm trying to incorporate this method because I'm using a traditional thermostat (on/off) not a proportional like previous stated. Sorry for the confusion

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I still fail to see a point to what you are describing.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

A dimmer cannot respond to temperature change. A thermostat can. Why are you trying to cut the thermostat out of the equation? Let it do its job. What happens when the temperature in the room drops? If you are using a dimmer the thermostat won't be able to run more to keep the cage at the correct temperature.



I still fail to see a point to what you are describing.

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The Idea is to have the dimmer set so it only reaches a desired temperature without engaging the thermostat to turn it off.
The temperature of my house rarely fluctuates, I have good airflow and good heating/cooling system. My house stays 71-72 all year round.

With a dimmer attached, and lowered to 70-80% power, would that not bring down highest running temperature of the THG heat tape?

You understand that if I use a traditional thermostat (on/off only). It is going to be turning the heat tape on and off every half hour or so.
A few months of that and I'd probably burn out my thermostat from clicking on and off 48 times a day.

Why have a thermostat even you ask then? for safety. if it decides to ramp up for no reason or get to hot, it will shut power down.

I'm trying to be clear as possible. If anyone has experience with using Heat tape with a traditional thermostat, any input would be appreciated.

Use a proportional thermostat and it won't be turning the heat tape on or off ever. It will simply keep it at one temp by applying the appropriate amount of power.

I believe the failure rate on dimmers is MUCH higher than proportional thermostats.

If you don't have. Proportional thermostat you can buy them pretty cheap. Herpstat intros are only $135 in Canada so probably much cheaper in the US. I imagine you could find one used as well

I recommend getting a Herpstat or the Vivarium Electronics as a second choice. I love my Herpstat. A dimmer could be used as a fail safe by adjusting it so it was running close to the right temp and turning it up just a bit so if you tstat failed your heat tape wouldn't be running at max.

Since you already have the on off style tstat I would use that as a fail safe. Just set it at a higher target temp say 5-8 degrees higher than you main. The herpstats that aren't basic also have even better safety features.

Even though it seems you house is a constant temp it is surprising how much fluctuation you cage/rack can have. We don't have a large margin of error to play with and the temps can swing easily in small enclosures. I used a dimmer for three weeks while waiting for my Herpstat and although the room stayed at 70-72 I was having 5-8 degrees temp swings in my enclosure (4x2x2). That would have been worse in a tub. maybe your house is way better than my old place was but I wouldn't recommend risking it. It is way better to know it is handled for you so you can enjoy your animals. I still check temps everyday but that is just so I know everything is ok. I am not wasting time adjusting.

I don't have a ton of experience but I will offer what I have. Others on here will have much more to offer.

Good luck on your new rack! I am also building my first. Stupid tubs are out of stock though do I am waiting till next week.

You can use THG heat tape on a dimmer to accomplish what you are talking about. However it will not hold consistent temps like it would with either an on off T-stat or a Proportional T-stat. The On Off T-stat will hold temps fairly well by the time the heat gets threw the tubs and substrate a split of 1-2 degrees will not show up as much if you attach your probe to the THG heat tape between two tubs or just on the tape itself. I personally would not use a dimmer on heat tape failure rate is a lot higher than an On Off T-stat. I have used both style T-stats with the new THG heat tape and been happy with both.

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Originally Posted by seang89

You understand that if I use a traditional thermostat (on/off only). It is going to be turning the heat tape on and off every half hour or so.
A few months of that and I'd probably burn out my thermostat from clicking on and off 48 times a day.

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no it won't..? that's exactly what they're built for. before i got my herpstats i was using a cheap little on/off hydrofarm, and it was going strong for six months and it still works. i still have it set aside as a back up.. and it doesn't matter if the temperature in your house doesn't fluctuate at all. i've had to use a dimmer to hold me over until a thermostat came in. i checked the temps twice a day and had to bump it up or down almost every time to keep the desired temps.

I've been using the same on/off thermostat for years without any issues. They won't "burn out" after a few month's usage...at least, not if it's a quality t-stat.

Your argument that the t-stat would turn on and off so frequently to maintain proper temps pretty much cancels out your argument that your ambient temps stay steady and therefore a dimmer switch should work. Both of those situations can't be true. I've lived in a LOT of different houses of all styles and environments...and NONE of them ever kept ambient temps in a range precise enough to support using a dimmer switch to maintain critical temps in a reptile enclosure.

A quality thermostat (on/off OR proportional) is the BEST investment you'll ever make for your reptiles.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I've been using the same on/off thermostat for years without any issues. They won't "burn out" after a few month's usage...at least, not if it's a quality t-stat.

Your argument that the t-stat would turn on and off so frequently to maintain proper temps pretty much cancels out your argument that your ambient temps stay steady and therefore a dimmer switch should work. Both of those situations can't be true. I've lived in a LOT of different houses of all styles and environments...and NONE of them ever kept ambient temps in a range precise enough to support using a dimmer switch to maintain critical temps in a reptile enclosure.

A quality thermostat (on/off OR proportional) is the BEST investment you'll ever make for your reptiles.

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Did you not read that I said I already have thermostat? The argument your posing makes no sense to what I actually said.
You need to read things better before you try to formulate a response.

Theres just so much wrong with your first sentence I'm not even going to pick it apart and show you what you're looking at bass ackwards.

I maintain a hotspot of 92-93 with ambient temperatures of 77-83 All year round. I don't know what kind of houses you lived in, if you have so much trouble keeping ambient temperatures. Ambient temperatures are not an issue for me whatsoever.

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Moving forward.

I've already got the answer I've been looking for. What I want to be done can be achieved(though it may not be as consistent as needed) . I've already got a few strips hooked up in parallel connected to a dimmer. Im going to be taking readings from it for a couple weeks checking how consistent each strip is staying heated. If it passes that test. I'm going to end up using it (even if failure rate with dimmers is higher) cause if my dimmer fails, the strips will go full power and my T-stat will just shut everything down.

If readings arn't consistent when hooked up to a dimmer, there's no point of using this method. And I will use standalone t-stat with the heat tape.

The biggest issue with what you are planning is choosing a Max level that will deliver the power you need when the temp drops. The newest comparison tests done between flexwatt and thg show flexwatt running lower temps. Why use the new tape if you are going to limit it?

I would suggest a failsafe t stat it will account for the ambient air temps as well and completely kill power In a failure.


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Originally Posted by kitedemon

The biggest issue with what you are planning is choosing a Max level that will deliver the power you need when the temp drops. The newest comparison tests done between flexwatt and thg show flexwatt running lower temps. Why use the new tape if you are going to limit it?

I would suggest a failsafe t stat it will account for the ambient air temps as well and completely kill power In a failure.


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I understand what you're saying about flex vs THG. Even though flexwatt runs at a lower temperature, if you look at the infared pictures, its is not as consistent all around as the THG heat tape(flex will have cooler/warmer portions). It also is more consistent from each parallel strip to the next. It seems to evenly use the electricity between all the heat tape in the parallel. That is my reasoning behind using THG over flex. Because either way, its going to be limited by t-stat or dimmer.

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Originally Posted by seang89

Did you not read that I said I already have thermostat? The argument your posing makes no sense to what I actually said.
You need to read things better before you try to formulate a response.

Theres just so much wrong with your first sentence I'm not even going to pick it apart and show you what you're looking at bass ackwards.

I maintain a hotspot of 92-93 with ambient temperatures of 77-83 All year round. I don't know what kind of houses you lived in, if you have so much trouble keeping ambient temperatures. Ambient temperatures are not an issue for me whatsoever.

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Moving forward.

I've already got the answer I've been looking for. What I want to be done can be achieved(though it may not be as consistent as needed) . I've already got a few strips hooked up in parallel connected to a dimmer. Im going to be taking readings from it for a couple weeks checking how consistent each strip is staying heated. If it passes that test. I'm going to end up using it (even if failure rate with dimmers is higher) cause if my dimmer fails, the strips will go full power and my T-stat will just shut everything down.

If readings arn't consistent when hooked up to a dimmer, there's no point of using this method. And I will use standalone t-stat with the heat tape.

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Pardon? JLC's response makes complete sense. You saying you have a steady ambient temp of 77-83 makes no sense whatsoever. That is not a steady temperature AT ALL. That is 6 degrees of variance.

I still simply do not understand why you want to use a dimmer when proportional thermostats are far superior and work better. And they won't burn out. It's what they were designed to do. You know those thermostats mounted on your wall in your house? Yeah....those are thermostats. How long have they been there? Probably since the house was built.

Anyways. Readings WON'T be consistent when hooked up to a dimmer so you might as well just skip that and go straight to the Herpstat or VE thermostat or whatever it is you have, and then get a cheap on/off type thermostat such as the ReptiTemp 500R to use as a backup in case your main thermostat fails.

7 degrees of variance I mean

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

Pardon? JLC's response makes complete sense. You saying you have a steady ambient temp of 77-83 makes no sense whatsoever. That is not a steady temperature AT ALL. That is 6 degrees of variance.

I still simply do not understand why you want to use a dimmer when proportional thermostats are far superior and work better. And they won't burn out. It's what they were designed to do. You know those thermostats mounted on your wall in your house? Yeah....those are thermostats. How long have they been there? Probably since the house was built.

Anyways. Readings WON'T be consistent when hooked up to a dimmer so you might as well just skip that and go straight to the Herpstat or VE thermostat or whatever it is you have, and then get a cheap on/off type thermostat such as the ReptiTemp 500R to use as a backup in case your main thermostat fails.

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Ugh, is this a circle jerk or what?

Lets break it down then, even though I didn't want to.

Your argument that the t-stat would turn on and off so frequently to maintain proper temps pretty much cancels out your argument that your ambient temps stay steady and therefore a dimmer switch should work

First of all, JLC starts talking about ambient temperatures, nowhere did I mention ambient temperature being my concern. So that almost completely disregards that whole sentence as non-issue.

But lets break it down further so the thicker boned people will understand.

I attach THG to a traditional t-stat. I place the t-stats probe, on the substrate of the enclosure over the heated portion of enclosure. Heat tape heats up to get the substrate to 92 degress. Then shuts off completely. Now with the heat turned off completely, it isn't going to maintain that temperature of 92 very long. As soon as it drops below 89-90(whatever i choose) it will engage again until it hits desired temps.

Adding a dimmer is to limit the heat tape to get it to achieve a temperature of 92 consistently (with minimal intervention of a t-stat)

See how this has nothing to do with ambient temperature? maybe not, but I can't help you anymore.

My ambient temperatures are nowhere near an issue, so don't try to make it one. These snakes endure *nearly* freezing nighttime temperatures in their burrows, and up to the 100's during the day ambient temperatures. They've lived for a few million years under these types of climates. My 76-83 are minimum and maximum ambient temperature readings, It usually reads 78-79 almost all the time. Steady enough for me and my ball pythons for 7 years now. Without a single issue. Thanks though.

I shouldn't have to explain this, should I?
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but at least I tried.

If you don't understand what someone is talking about, you can opt to not chime in. That's usually the best choice.

Unfortunately ambient temps do factor in. Even slight differences in ambient affect you main heat source. Your 92 wi shoot up a few degrees. I have done this myself. Now maybe your experience will be different than mine but when my room temp went up 3-4 degrees my primary heat source shot up 5-6 degrees. Now it didn't hurt my BP but if I fixing adjust it 2-3 times daily it would have peaked at what most consider unacceptable temps (96-100). It also dropped too low IMO at times.

Honestly after two weeks of running a dimmer I was so tired of adjusting it I was dying for my Herpstat to arrive.

We aren't trying to argue just help you through what we have already done. You are more than welcome to try out your dimmer.

I agree with the others because it works. Use a tstat to control you main heat source so it is always perfect. You ambients are fine and will continue to be fine. Now personally like the dimming style of tstat (proportional/ pulse proportional) like Herpstat and VE.

If you want a failsafe

1) use your tstat as it was designed and use a dimmer set for more power than needed to allow some breathing room for the tstat but stop your heat tape from running 100% in the case if tstat failure.

2) the best choice. Use a Herpstat to control your heat and use your existing on/off tstat as the fail safe. Set it at 95 or so.


You did ask for advise and many have offered it. If you don't like the answers you are free to do what you intended to in the first place. Nobody is stopping you. Please post your findings after. Month or two and let us know how it worked out. Maybe your room is stable enough the dimmer will work. Maybe you will have large temp swings. You won't know for sure until you test it in your house. Breeders have extremely controlled rooms and still have to use tstats not dimmers on the heat tape. Something to consider.

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Lol sorry for the novel. My posts are always too big.

Saying "I don't understand" was a tactful way of saying what you are trying to do is stupid and backwards.

Please explain WHY you want minimal intervention from the t-stat? If you have a proportional t-stat, it will NOT EVER shut the tape off completely, it will simply adjust the output constantly, dimming and jacking up the heat as necessary.

How do you plan on getting your probe to stay I place overtop f the substrate?

And yes. Ambient temps are an issue, even if you're talking about your hot spot. Ambient temps and any minute fluctuations effect the hot spot if there is a dimmer involved. Period.

Your original question:

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"I was wondering if anyone uses this with a dimmer?

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Answer:

No. Because it isn't accurate.

Wow wow wow.... :rolleyes:

Ok...let ME break this down and make it very simple to you. But first let me apologize for commenting in reply to a point you had made and then adding my own thoughts afterward. That must have been exceedingly confusing.

My original quote is in blue...my explanation of my words in black.

I've been using the same on/off thermostat for years without any issues. They won't "burn out" after a few month's usage...at least, not if it's a quality t-stat.

This was a response to this statement made by you:

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Originally Posted by seang89

You understand that if I use a traditional thermostat (on/off only). It is going to be turning the heat tape on and off every half hour or so.
A few months of that and I'd probably burn out my thermostat from clicking on and off 48 times a day.

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Your argument that the t-stat would turn on and off so frequently to maintain proper temps pretty much cancels out your argument that your ambient temps stay steady and therefore a dimmer switch should work. Both of those situations can't be true.

I do concede that this was worded poorly, but was hardly call for such a snarky, back-handed response from you. I was trying to be helpful. If the ambient temperatures in your home are as steady as you seem to think they are, then the t-stat will not have to switch on and off as often, and then you would have less of a "wear and tear" issue with it. (Not that I think that is a real issue, as noted above, but you seem to think it is.)

I've lived in a LOT of different houses of all styles and environments...and NONE of them ever kept ambient temps in a range precise enough to support using a dimmer switch to maintain critical temps in a reptile enclosure.

The ambient temperatures in whatever room you keep your enclosures is directly related to the ambient temperatures within the enclosures themselves...which is directly related to how efficiently your heating elements run. Even you pointed out that your own home fluctuates as much as seven degrees throughout the day. And unless you live in a cave, anytime the weather changes, your home temperatures will swing with the weather until you adjust your house t-stat.

ALL that is trying to point out is that a dimmer switch is in no way a suitable method for maintaining consistent temps on heat tape UNLESS you have a closed room with its own ambient heating/cooling source that maintains room temperatures within 2-3 degrees, at most.

A quality thermostat (on/off OR proportional) is the BEST investment you'll ever make for your reptiles.

Of course I know you already have a t-stat. I was simply reiterating the fact that a quality t-stat (one you don't have to fear will burn out after just a short few months of usage!) really is THE BEST investment you can make for keeping your reptiles healthy and safe. Rather than trust them to the ambivalence of a dimmer switch, I would much rather invest my money in a t-stat that I am sure will do the job that I want done. My apologies for trying to say that with too few words.

Obviously, you'll do whatever you wish to do. And frankly, I don't really care what you choose to do. I'm a bit perplexed about why you brought it up in the first place if you didn't want to hear any other options, but not surprised. People do that all the time. Maybe you're just in a mood for an argument or something. I don't know.

Go....take care of your snakes however you think is best. I hope they stay warm and safe, no matter what.

I understand what you are trying to accomplish.

We have used rheostats with heat tape any number of times over the years. They just don't give the same level of precision that a high quality thermostat does. Rheostats can be used, but they are def not ideal.

I wouldn't recommend the joint rheostat/thermostat setup that you are suggesting. I have seen it recommended before, but I always thought it was an odd setup, and I can't imagine it working all that well.

I think a better choice would be two high quality thermostats. One at the proper set point. And the second set 5-10 higher as a fail safe.

We used this setup for years with our incubators, with great success. Jeff Ronne The Boaphile used to (still does?) sell a double Ranco thermostat prewired precisely this way. Those are the ones we used for our incubators.

You could accomplish the same thing with the Vivarium Electronics thermos, and they are especially nice because you can stack them.

I would rather see you go in this direction, even if the intial investment is a bit higher. You will get more precise output, and a safer long term result. Best of luck.

Isn't the op using the dimmer as a failsafe? There is a TStat the attempt to limit the Max temp with the dimmer. I'd use a secondary t stay as it is more reliable in unstable temps but a dimmer should still work fine with a TStat.

I don't believe a two or three degree variation in the width make a difference in a rack the air space will even it out anyway.


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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Isn't the op using the dimmer as a failsafe? There is a TStat the attempt to limit the Max temp with the dimmer. I'd use a secondary t stay as it is more reliable in unstable temps but a dimmer should still work fine with a TStat.

I don't believe a two or three degree variation in the width make a difference in a rack the air space will even it out anyway.


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No. You would think so, but the OP has it backwards, IMO. The OP wants to turn down the output of the heat tape so that the thermostat doesn't have to do as much work:

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Originally Posted by seang89

The plan is to use a dimmer in there and try to get it so that it stays a consistent 90-92f on the hotside, It will however be hooked up to a proportional thermostat just in case(johnson 419).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by seang89

THG heat tape is supposed to run at around 110-115f. I want to use a dimmer to lower the output so that it isn't getting as hot when its on.

Basically so that the thermostat will not have to shut off the heat tape unless something goes wrong, or for whatever reason it gets to hot.

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That is how I read it too. The op is limiting the Max temp with a dimmer. There should be no issue as long as he does not need the high end. I think a second TStat as a failsafe is better as it will adjust with ambients. The next question is if the receipt tests have concluded flexwatt to run cooler why not use that then the dimmer becomes moot.


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