"Dead" morph

I'm curious in the opinion of the bp forum. Do you believe the desert or champagne is a "dead" morph? What I mean is like deserts use to be high in demand, but because females couldn't lay fertile eggs, it fell from there. Champagne dominate the other genes when bred with other genes. So I want a take on some opinions. I also ask because I'm thinking of getting a champagne because females can lay fertile eggs.

I feel deserts lost their "go get one" factor for the reason of the female issues and that fact that I could go and get a male now for like $500. That tells me demand is super down from last year. As for the champs, their price is down too but I still don't see them dying out to soon. Ill be getting a female by the end of the year I hope. Enchi champs the main goal.

Deserts are going to be hard to come by in a few years. A LOT of people are bailing on them. But there are still some breeders who want to continue working with the incredible gene, believing that the female issue adds in a challenge. Now you're not only fighting the odd gods for morph combos, but sex as well.

As for champs, I don't personally want to get into them anytime soon, maybe one day, but there are TONS of people who love them. I've seen quite a few champ combo's pop out recently that were pretty darn neat, so I think there is still plenty left to be done with it. I don't see Champs going away anytime soon.

Desert females may not be useful for breeders, but they're still a beautiful morph and someone looking for a pet can get a really nice looking girl for a pet.

I like them a lot.

Desert will fade away and be a niche breeder project due to the constraints and issues with females. This reduces your market drastically although it is an incredible gene.

I don't see Champagne anywhere near that level. it is an "acquired" taste & polarizing morph, similar to really dark genes. You either love it or you don't. However, I have seen some Enchi/Fire/Leopard Champagne Combos I just love. My Champagne Pastel PHOG female will be here next week and I have some big plans for her. I think Champagne will be around for a while and still have a lot of potential, but it will always be somewhat of a polarizing morphs.

i think only genetic issues associated with a morph can cause a morph to fall out of fashion.


champagne faces a double-hit: it causes the wobble we know from spider (also the super-form is lethal), and it is incompatible with spider, because champagne spider is lethal. Spider has the same issues, but really, if you have to decide between champagne and spider, if these two genes enter a duel..... its clear who will win. At the same time spider is taking a bit of a beating from pinstripe i think.

i think some people will continue with desert, because apart from the female fertility issues they are perfectly healthy. True you cannot breed females, but then, if noone just keeps BPs as pets and everyone breeds, that also couldnt work.

its hard to tell if one of the genes will ever really go away. Maybe the ones where we have many genes that basically do the same, but some are better than others? Im thinking of cinnamon and black pastel, where the super-forms have some issues, and mahogany and het red axanthic, where the supers are perfectly fine.

Champagnes BETTER not be dead cause I'm planning on getting several...

I think people should still breed deserts, and sell the females for the desert price minus the added amount for it being female. They are still beautiful morphs.


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What Champagne wobble?

Incompatibility with Spider and no living Super are not deal breakers by any means. There is still a lot to be done with Champs as more and more folks are figuring out how to unlock pattern and open up the colors.

Desert on the other hand is another issue. The infertility and possible death of a female that you try to breed IS a deal breaker for most folks. Serious breeders are not going to want to produce females that they cannot sell and cannot breed. So while they might not go away, prepare for them to get scarce.

I would love to have a desert gene combo. I don't want to work with them, just because the females can't produce, but a fantastic combo girl just to keep as a pet... it's a shame they're still charging for girls like they can breed.

Champagnes, though, are another story. One of the first snakes I first saw when I was doing research on BPs was a mimosa pied and that orange next to the white is something that's stuck with me for a long time. I'll definitely be making the leap into champagnes at some point. Also, have you seen Mike Wilbank's pumpkin champagnes?? :O

I think people should still produce Deserts in limited quantity to be sold at PETS. With that in mind the price needs to drop considerably. More like 150-200 for something that is a step up from normal. Similar to first time owners getting a Spider or Pastel as a pet. I have yet to be impressed with anything including the champagne gene. I wouldn't want anything that dulls color and pattern of my morphs. That's what I see in champagne.

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

i think only genetic issues associated with a morph can cause a morph to fall out of fashion.


champagne faces a double-hit: it causes the wobble we know from spider (also the super-form is lethal), and it is incompatible with spider, because champagne spider is lethal. Spider has the same issues, but really, if you have to decide between champagne and spider, if these two genes enter a duel..... its clear who will win. At the same time spider is taking a bit of a beating from pinstripe i think.

i think some people will continue with desert, because apart from the female fertility issues they are perfectly healthy. True you cannot breed females, but then, if noone just keeps BPs as pets and everyone breeds, that also couldnt work.

its hard to tell if one of the genes will ever really go away. Maybe the ones where we have many genes that basically do the same, but some are better than others? Im thinking of cinnamon and black pastel, where the super-forms have some issues, and mahogany and het red axanthic, where the supers are perfectly fine.

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You can't really compare the spider gene with these type of morphs. Yes, they do have a wobble, but not all spiders have a severe or no wobble at all and they create great pattern mutations and females can lay eggs. From a BREEDER's stand point, why would you want a gene that can't produce later on. That's why i asked about champagnes because it's rarely a pattern mutation when mixed with other genes and color besides momosas and a few other genes.

To me, champagnes look like big turds. I do not like them at all. There is one, MAYBE two champ combos I like. The Enchi champagne! That's it though. I would never buy one, but that's just personal opinion.

But yes, I think with all these morphs you will see less people working with them, but I don't think they're going to die out altogether.

Enchi champagnes are really nice, but honestly I think a single gene champagne is a beautiful animal in itself. Look at some of the stuff Dave Green produces. I think you're going to see prices come down on champs being that the super form is thought (proved?) to be lethal, but I don't think the champagne gene is going anywhere anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

To me, champagnes look like big turds. I do not like them at all. There is one, MAYBE two champ combos I like. The Enchi champagne! That's it though. I would never buy one, but that's just personal opinion.

But yes, I think with all these morphs you will see less people working with them, but I don't think they're going to die out altogether.

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that I think is the fundamental difference. champagnes don't have any issues even approaching the desert infertility problem, but the market for them is still based on whether or not you like the aesthetic, not whether it's a viable morph that can successfully reproduce. I happen to think they're one of the best out there, but any drop in market value can't be compared to what's happened with the deserts.

maybe its unlikely for a morph to die out once it has become popular, but maybe since we already have sooooo many morphs, some more subtle and rare morphs might never take off and sort of fizzle out?


when i get into breeding, ill stay away from morphs that have issues. To a degree. Different people have totally different oppinions on how bad an issue is. For me the worst deal-breakers are neuro/wobble and spine deformations/kinking. And Desert, i see no problem with producing them at all. You can NEVER breed female deserts, but my interest in breeding comes from a desire to locally produce awesome-looking healthy pets, to decrease the burden on wild-caught, and other species of snakes that tend to be wild-caught. So a lower chance to hit a multi-gene holdback for next breeding season..... Would be no deal-breaker for me.

Also i dont think good-looking female desert combos need to be as low as 200 dollars to sell. People like to go premium, people can get a variety of chairs for up to 100 dollars but you still get these that will search for the chair they like the most, and pay up to 1000 or even more for it if thats the price on the chair they like most. People buy mystic potions and high-white lucys and axanthic clowns JUST AS PETS, it is and always will be part of the market.