A beat to death question but She might be sayin there's a chance!!!!!!!

Hola boa folks,

I know several people have asked, and the questions have been answered with a "personal preference" response.

I have been wanting a boa since we got my son a Royal last May. We did the typical first time snake buyer, glass tank purchase, which I then ended up modifying by insulating it, getting a Herpstat II, fun paper back drop, heat lights, furnishings and so on.

So the story goes,,, I have been moping and pouting and asking to get a boa. "NO" is the usual response. My B-day is quickly approaching and I was sent a "How much do one of those cages cost?" text. After almost crapping myself with surprise I have had to re-evaluate and restart my caging quest.

Keep in mind "Yes" was not the answer, just "How much do those cages cost?". To me, that means there is a slight chance.

Out of these 3: Animal Plastics, Proline and Boaphile, I have leaned toward AP or Proline but not ruled out Boaphile.

The snake I would like to have would "ideally" would be a larger male Colombian BCI. When I say larger, I mean 6'-8' adult size, but I'd probably search for a snake that is 1 year old or under.

Having that in mind, I'd like to hear what the experienced boa keepers here think.

The Boaphile cage, 421D to me, seems a little short at 11.5 inches high. I think getting my shoulder in there for cleaning would be a pain, and I like the fact that boas will climb a bit if given the option. I'm not sure I like the type of PVC the cage is made of either. But I do like the fact Jeff will build and place everything you need in the cage.

I like the AP T-8 even at just 1/2 in taller than the Boaphile, or the T-10. Both reasonably are priced after shipping. I'd put a perch in if I could.

I like the Proline because of the plastic used, and the simplicity of putting it together. I would probably opt for the 14" high model because the 18" starts to price out higher than I want and the AP 15" high model seems a better value if I go for more ceiling.

So who uses what, and why do you like it?

Also, is there an advantage to acrylic doors VS glass? Sliding doors VS 1 single front, drop door? What should the height be to keep heat and humidity but have a bit of space for the snake?

I have read reviews on customer service and and elsewhere. I have spoken to Jeff (Boaphile) by phone he was very nice. I spoke to Ed (Proline) by phone and he was very nice too.

I e-mailed AP and they were very nice and quick to respond. Lead time is not a huge deal for any of them as I have no date to get a snake.

I've looked at the previous posts on this subject, but just wanted to get some boa owner opinions and customize things for me and go from there.

PS. I am not a handyman, but would be OK with self assembly if it's not overly involved. The Proline looks like a breeze, AP I'm not sure, and Boaphile is all set.

I was in exactly the same place as you were in and I decided to go with the Prolines because of the HDPE and I like the one door that opens all the way across. I did not want to have to fight to get my boas out when they get larger. I hear others that like the sliding doors too so I guess it comes down to preference. I just go my prolines in the mail so I have not set them up yet but I will post them when I get the chance. I wish the boaphiles were HDPE because I would have gone for those in a heartbeat. Good luck and keep us posted on what you choose.

I'm wanting to go with T10s as soon as I can get some money together.

I have a couple of Boaphiles with the drop down door. They are a pain in the butt. I prefer the glass sliding doors because you can just pop them out when cleaning.

The Boaphiles are also thinner. Makes them lighter but they don't hold in heat as well.

That's about all I can add until I can purchase a T10

I can't say for which brand I like since our vivs are homemade (if they're done correctly they can last a long time too).

For size, my '10 Colombian male is about 6' - 6' 1/2 feet and he's in a 4 foot x 2 foot x 18" high viv and it's perfect for him. I like 18" height for boas personally, IMO length and width are more important over height. His viv has two acrylic doors that are on hinges that open downward: I really like them since I only need to open one door to feed or clean but can open both if needed.

I have one of my bigger '10 Colombian female (a little smaller than the male) already in a 6' vivarium so she can grow into it. She has sliding glass doors on hers and I can't say if I like those better than the dropping, but I do like the acrylic better than the glass. Just preference.

Well, there are a couple of things to consider first off. Will this be your ONLY boa? If you don't plan to have a large collection and need to conserve space, buy the largest cage you can possibly afford for your boa's adult cage. For a male BCI, I would go with AP's T10 as a minimum but if you have room, go with the T12 or even a T20. Boas are active snakes and while they can live in smaller enclosures (again, the T10 should be the minimum for a male BCI), bigger is better.

Second, if you get a baby, it's going to need something smaller than that for a while. Boas are not Ball Pythons and do not need small, cramped spaces to feel secure, but a baby will be lost in a T10. I start babies in a 32qt tub up to 1yr old. 1-2yr olds are in a 41qt tub. At 2yrs old, they are moved to their adult enclosures.

As for brand, I love www.pvccages.com. Jim makes them complete and you can have them shipped fully assembled or broken down for simple DIY. Animal Plastics is great too and has more choices for size and you can get all the accessories (heat, light, shelf, etc) with it too. Plus I think they are very reasonably priced. I have not ordered from Proline, but I'm seriously thinking of it for my next set. I will never order from Boaphile again. Here is my experience with him. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...phile+feedback. And, incidentally, I also contacted Jeff PRIOR to ordering and he was super nice - it wasn't until I placed my order that the trouble started.

Your choice really is dependant on personal preferance, but I understand your question. I like 2ft high cages because I can have a shelf in there - boas will climb if given the chance and that adds some floor space and a hiding place too. Acrylic can be harder to clean and may scratch more easily than glass, but glass is obviously more fragile so both have merits.

Good luck with your choice! Between AP or Proline, you'll be quite happy with whichever you choose! :gj:

WOW!! Thanks to all so far. Answer to one question: YES THIS WILL BE THE ONLY BOA! If it even happens. Evenstar, I'm very glad you popped in as I respect/value your opinion. I think my cage size will have limits so I'm probably going be looking at 48x23x14 Proline, or a 48x24x12 AP or a 48x24x15 AP.

I will have a looksy at the PVC cages since you like them. I have to keep costs down IF I can do this or my wife will be quite unhappy. I like the idea of the "pop out glass" on the AP cages and did not know that.

I will have some heating issues as I think I will have to keep the cage in the basement. I'm wondering if I should use the heat lamp option on the AP or try an RHP and a UTH. I am not sure I want to use Flexwatt. I want to be able to put a probe from the Herpstat II I will have to get between the pad and the bottom of the cage. I know the PHP only heats surface areas so if not using a heat light I would need a black or infrared cage light to keep the inside a bit warmer.

Keep throwing out ideas. Evanstar, I'd love a huge cage, but are the current sizes I have adequate? I see a lot of 4x2x12 keepers out there. Again if I could, I'd go bigger but this may be what I'm stuck with.

I bought three 4x2 cages last year and went with the 15" tall model. I'm very glad I did. I can tell I would have hated a shorter cage for cleaning and getting the snakes out. Two handfuls of a blood python its hard to get through a thin space.

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Originally Posted by ewaldrep

I was in exactly the same place as you were in and I decided to go with the Prolines because of the HDPE and I like the one door that opens all the way across. I did not want to have to fight to get my boas out when they get larger. I hear others that like the sliding doors too so I guess it comes down to preference. I just go my prolines in the mail so I have not set them up yet but I will post them when I get the chance. I wish the boaphiles were HDPE because I would have gone for those in a heartbeat. Good luck and keep us posted on what you choose.

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What are you doing for heat and such? What size Proline did you go with? How was the lead time on the Proline? Thanks for the post as I think I'm getting the green light here (fingers crossed).

I think I'd get a perch or 2 with the cage.

You can also add a shelf to the AP cages.
I have read that people that just use Flexwatt have no problem keeping the temps right in a room that's in the lower 70s.

Oh. I'm also going with glass just because I feel it will hold up better over time. Not that I'm using a wire brush on the plexiglass or anything :p

I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a spot for the probe on the bottom of the AP cages.

Hey 3skulls and KMG, I'm leaning toward the T-10 for the same reason. I just don't think 12" cuts it. I would however consider 14" which is what the Proline has.

I know "Serpent Merchant" Aaron is a big AP fan and he has not steered me wrong yet. I think I'd even drive from MN to Iowa and pick up the cage if I went with AP. If I remember correctly from an e-mail they sent me they would assemble it and I save on shipping, of course the drive would ruin that, but I'd be going with my son on a fun trip : )

I have been doing research and reading about cages for about 4 months now. I'm always drawn back to AP.

I was a Boaphile fan until my 2nd order came in. Plus the lack of answering any email.

It's hard to spend that kind of cash without seeing the product in person.
I have seen other PVC cages that were 12" tall in person. Even for a snake that doesn't climb, it looks short and a pain to clean.
Start getting above 15"-18" tall and its harder to heat.

To give you an idea. There are 2 5-6' BCIs in this cage. The cage is 36"x18"x18"
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/07/ynadygat.jpg

If you're going to keep it in the basement, start with the flexwatt and see what the temps do. You might be alright. PVC cages are usually pretty good for holding heat so if the basement doesn't fall below 70, the flexwatt alone may be enough. If you need to up the temps, I highly recommend an RHP. That coupled with the flexwatt will do just fine! I keep a green tree python in our basement - the room temps are usually at about 72, his pvc cage is heated with an RHP alone and his ambient temp is at 75 with a hotperch at 87 (gtps like slightly cooler temps). But the basement setting is fine. :gj:

Try to have the cage set up and the temps figured out before you bring a boa home. That way, you'll know what you need to do for a heat source. I think the flexwatt is going to be the better way to go over a UTH - UTHs might not work so well on this style of cage. If you DO go with an UTH instead of flexwatt though, use an Ultratherm from Reptile Basics - they are the best of the best. http://www.reptilebasics.com/ultratherm-heat-pads You can get an RHP from them too if you need one.....

Note: If you buy an AP cage and order the flexwatt with it, they will wire it and make sure it's all set to just stick on the bottom and plug in. Since its professionally wired, its very safe.

The cage sizes you mentioned should be just fine. Especially if this is your only boa, you'll be able to get him out for exercise frequently too so that'll help. However, remember that he'll need something smaller if you start with a baby. ;)


Oh! I would recommend you go at least 15" high - like others have said, it really does make a difference with getting the snake in and out and with cleaning.... :gj:

3skulls, I think it's between Proline and AP. I really wish I could see, touch and mess around with either of them. I think you are right, at least for my situation 18" or above would become a heating task that I don't want to battle. I could do it with heat lamps but I'm trying to get away from that.

Evanstar, I agree with everything you said. I like the Ultratherms as well, but I would have AP wire the Flexwatt if I use that. The RHP is also what I was thinking but I know Kitedemon has posted extensively that they do not help ambient temps much.

I'll have everything figured out long before any boa gets here.

Btw, any cage with the sliding glass doors will allow you to "pop them out". the glass sits in tracks and you just lift one pane at a time and lift them out. You'll see what I mean when you put the doors in. ;)

And, yea, in a basement, too tall a cage is more difficult to heat. I would stick with 15-18" high. :D

And the RHPs really do help with ambient temps - otherwise, my gtp's cage would not be warm enough! :gj:

Could any of you post pics of your boa cages? I just saw a nice You Tube video where the Proline 48x23x14 was reviewed. It looked very nice. I think no matter what I'll get a shelf with whatever brand I go with.

I don't want to get overly excited, but this could be super cool!! I told my wife just getting the cage will probably make me smile for 5 months LOL! She want's no part of it though.

You guys are great! Thanks for posting up on this for me.

Not sure if I'll get the snake at my local reptile place (Twin Cities Reptiles) or look at an online spot. I like Gus at Rio Bravo, but my shop has treated me well and I can actually see and hold the snakes.

I'll deal with that later I guess.

I don't have pics of my boas' caging, but here's a pic of my gtp's enclosure. This came from www.pvccages.com and it is a 3 x 2 x 2 (the glass doors were removed to prevent reflection from the flash). Hunter is a large male at about 5 1/2ft so I went with the 3' wide enclosure. So the AP T10 would be a foot longer and 9" shorter.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../Hunter004.jpg

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../Hunter006.jpg

Adding the shelf will be a great idea and your boa will appreciate it. :gj:

Gus at Rio Bravo is great. I understand that it's nice to be able to see and handle the snake before you buy, but buying from a petstore, no matter how nice the store seems, can have its risks. Gus will not stear you wrong - you will get exactly what he says you'll get. Here are a few other reputable breeders/sellers who will treat you right and who you can trust to sell you a top quality animal, whether it's a fancy morph or just a normal....

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/ Vin Russo
http://www.jimisnakes.com/ JimiSnakes
http://cdreptiles.com/ Chad Duggin
http://www.specialkreptiles.com/Home_Page.php Tim Koppenhoffer
http://www.reptilesbymack.com/ Mack 'Smith' (??)

I decided to go with RHPs from Proheat, they are the only ones UL listed as a complete product. I also liked talking to Bob from Proheat because he was very knowledgeable and answered all of my questions. He even brought up things that I had not thought about and helped me make my decision on thermostats as well. I was going to go with herpstat 2s and ended up saving over $100 following his recommendations. I will be posting how well it all works when I have it set up and running but that is the decision I made.

ill help you out. i have both the t10 and the t8. i personally like the t10 better than the t8 but i got the t8 in less than 5 days shipped to my door so i cant complain. both are great tanks. my apt is set to 70 and im maintaining 82* ambient temps with just a rhp.

here are pictures. go with the t10 you wont regret it!

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps16328cee.jpg

OK, I'm new to all of this, but I'll share. I just got my AP T8 and it rocks. I had AP install two Pro Heat RHPs, as I will divide it for awhile. Right now I'm running it undivided in my cool house with just one RHP and just the one RHP keeps temps perfect. When I put the divider in, I may lose a litttle bit of the perfect gradient I have now due to the physical size of the RHPs I chose, but that is speculation and doesnt matter because it will ultimately be undivided. I love this cage so much, I just ordered a T10 for my new Boa, also with just a RHP. In my limited experience, the Pro Heat RHPs are MUCH more than upside down UTHs and under the conditions I have, do significantly impact ambient temps. The cages are very easy to put together and took about 10 minutes with good directions.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks to al who have posted the pictures. I'm having a tough time with the decision. I'm really starting to favor the AP T-10 but I do like the Proline as well. I may have struck gold on Craig's list here. I think there is an AP 6x3x2 being sold. If I can get it in the $280 range and it's in good condition I may jump on it.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Thanks to al who have posted the pictures. I'm having a tough time with the decision. I'm really starting to favor the AP T-10 but I do like the Proline as well. I may have struck gold on Craig's list here. I think there is an AP 6x3x2 being sold. If I can get it in the $280 range and it's in good condition I may jump on it.

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Oh geez, if you can land that one, you'll be set forever! Why can't I ever find CL deals like that..........??

You won't be sorry with AP. Proline is nice and you'd like that too, but if the size of the AP fits what you're looking for, get that. :gj:

Ha!! Well I have only heard back from the CL poster once and when I asked for more specifics the e-mail stopped. It looks like it could be an AP he wants $350 and I'd offer $280 to start. But seeing as he has ceased e-mailing me that ship may have sailed.

I'm torn between AP and Proline. I know the PL will come to about $263 with almost all I need. The AP is about $60 more which would be a nice chunk toward the heat panel and of course there is the Herpstat.

The key is to not piss off my lovely, understanding of my needs wife. I'm walking a thin line here so keeping it low $ is the key. However, like a lot of you here, I'm a very particular person and really enjoy high quality items that are within reason and when it comes to pets we go the full distance.

The ProLine cage comes with the RHP??? I didn't think he sold them...... Pro Line is actually a different company from NorthWest Constrictors - NW sells their cages under "pro line" but it is a different company. But he may have started to sell the heat panels too. Let me know for sure because that may change my own decision later this summer when I order a new stack.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

The ProLine cage comes with the RHP??? I didn't think he sold them...... Pro Line is actually a different company from NorthWest Constrictors - NW sells their cages under "pro line" but it is a different company. But he may have started to sell the heat panels too. Let me know for sure because that may change my own decision later this summer when I order a new stack.....

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No, Ed just told me to check Bob at Pro-products for the RHP. What I was trying to say was the $60 I'd save going with Ed would be a nice amount I could put toward the RHP. I think they usually go for around $85.

I think I'm going to go with perches and some larger rocks in the cage. Seeing this will be my first time using a RHP, I'd like some rocks and other items to absorb and transfer heat back out so I can up the ambient temps. I will also have an in cage light installed to assist with ambient temps.

I am trying to avoid heat lamps like we have on our glass tank.

Yeah I would scrap the heat lamp idea.

I would think the Flexwatt would heat the rocks the same.
I have never used a RHP so I can't say to much about them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

No, Ed just told me to check Bob at Pro-products for the RHP. What I was trying to say was the $60 I'd save going with Ed would be a nice amount I could put toward the RHP. I think they usually go for around $85.

Oh gotcha! :gj:

I think I'm going to go with perches and some larger rocks in the cage. Seeing this will be my first time using a RHP, I'd like some rocks and other items to absorb and transfer heat back out so I can up the ambient temps. I will also have an in cage light installed to assist with ambient temps.

I am trying to avoid heat lamps like we have on our glass tank.

Perches will work. I like the shelves though for 2 reasons. 1) It is both a shelf providing a climbing spot with added floor space and a place to go under to hide. 2) It is easy to clean. The choice is totally up to you and there's no right or wrong thing to use (as long as it's safe for the snake of course). I'll be honest, rocks really won't do much good in there and may just get in the way. Keep in mind that the more "stuff" you put in there means more stuff to clean. The light that is installed by either AP or ProLine won't give off much added heat, but definitely stay away from heat lamps - that's one of the most detrimental enclosure accessories you can use and will just SUCK humidity out. ;)

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Btw, are you going to go with a baby?? If so, you need to have a smaller enclosure ready. It's good to plan this out, but a baby won't be comfortable in a large enclosure until it's at least a year old. An option is to purchase this cage with a divider. But you'll need to adjust your heat sources accordingly.... :gj:

Probably not a baby, but not an older snake either. I will clutter the cage with a tone of stuff. I have heard 2 schools of thought on cage size.

1 being a big cage causes stress and makes a snake feel insecure.

The other being "Nature is huge and they make it in the wild." I think with all of the extra stuff I have here from the Royal would be enough to possibly over clutter the cage. I'll consider a divider if need be.

The plan is to get an established feeding snake that has been handled and is comfortable. I will check with Rio Bravo and the other breeders you mentioned.

I talked to Ed and he said if I was going to use a RHP, perches would be better than a shelf because the shelf would block some of the heat from the panel. I have a lot of questions as to how to effectively regulate a RHP with a thermostat. Probe positioning and such.

Our current Royal has a dangled probe that deals with the lamp, and the other probe is between the UTH and the outside bottom of the tank. That all seemed so easy.

The Proline is a totally different deal for me so I'll need help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gio

Probably not a baby, but not an older snake either. I will clutter the cage with a tone of stuff. I have heard 2 schools of thought on cage size.

1 being a big cage causes stress and makes a snake feel insecure.

The other being "Nature is huge and they make it in the wild." I think with all of the extra stuff I have here from the Royal would be enough to possibly over clutter the cage. I'll consider a divider if need be. This is very true about nature. And boas do not stress as easily as other snakes (ie: BPs). I don't have a problem with putting a baby in a large enclosure as long as there are multiple hides and plants, etc, to provide cover. A smaller cage is easier to do this with for a baby though. Plus, I just wanted to be sure you'd considered that fact. :gj:

The plan is to get an established feeding snake that has been handled and is comfortable. I will check with Rio Bravo and the other breeders you mentioned. Perfect! ;)

I talked to Ed and he said if I was going to use a RHP, perches would be better than a shelf because the shelf would block some of the heat from the panel. I have a lot of questions as to how to effectively regulate a RHP with a thermostat. Probe positioning and such. That is true if you're going to use an RHP by itself. I was thinking you were going to go with flexwatt for a hotspot and use the RHP for a secondary heat source to maintain the ambient. If that's the case, using the shelf won't be a problem. But if you're going to use the RHP by itself, I'd also use the perches.

Our current Royal has a dangled probe that deals with the lamp, and the other probe is between the UTH and the outside bottom of the tank. That all seemed so easy.

The Proline is a totally different deal for me so I'll need help.

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You'll have no trouble - you're going about this the right way! Good for you! :D

Ha, thanks. I'd be surprised if I had a snake by early summer. I want it all set up first. I may even repaint the basement.

And here is a video of the cage I'm strongly thinking of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqD_Z...OVLx4g&index=1