kind of worried

Okay well I have been reading and comtemplating getting a ball python for about 2 months. Well I work at Petco and they got an odd patterned ball in about 1 month ago and no body would buy it so, I ended up getting it for $10. It is amazing looking a long stripe that runs 3/4 of its body and large amount of white around its green markings.
Well here is my question. I know they can go 3 months w/o eating but she hasn't eaten for about 4 weeks, no biggy. My consern is that she just pooped and it came out very runny not like a solid log like normal. Should I be worried?
Also She has had blueish eyes for about a week and still hasn't shed. I have been soaking her because I have trouble keeping the humidity high for a shed period. Do I need to worry here?
I know most likely there is nothing but this is a whole new type of animal for me and I am just trying to cover all my bases.

thanks
JR

Get a feces sample and have it tested for parasites by a vet, that could cause it to be runny.

Because it is a petco ball python, I'm not too suprised. Let her shed then attempt to feed her. In the mean time don't handle her. There are some good tips in the ball python caresheet for this type of thing.

Yea I had a python that had the same problem she had internal parasites. Take her to the vet and he will fix it with no problems. Also since the poo is runny your BP is likely dehydrated. Also check it very closely for external parasites like ticks or mites you might even want to use a magnifying glass. If its shedding i suggest giving him a soak in some lukewarm water when they soak they will often drink water. And it will help with the shed. But i agree with The Godfather get your snake to a vet today if you can.

You can also provide a humid-hide for her if you're having trouble getting the overall humdity in the cage up. Just place a damp sponge or some damp sphagnum moss in a hide and set it on the warm side of the cage. That could help with the shed a lot. The trouble with soaking is that you have to handle an already stressed-out snake to do it...and it's only a temporary fix...you can soak for 30 minutes, but what is the snake going to do for the rest of the 23 and 1/2 hours of the day that it needs the moisture? I would highly encourage making a humid-hide.

You can also work on getting the humdity in the tank up. If you have a screen top, cover it with duct-tape or contact paper...leaving just a small opening for air circulation and/or a heat-lamp if you must use one. If you're using ONLY a heat lamp to provide warmth, try getting a human heating pad from Walmart (one that doesn't have an auto-shutoff) and using that under 1/2 of your tank, but be sure to raise the tank off the table a little too allow air to circulate between the pad and the tank. Put a large waterbowl over the heating pad, along with the humid hide.

Those are just a couple tips for offering the proper humidity. Do get the little guy to the vet asap. Don't worry too much about feeding until you've finished the shed and the vet exam. After all that is overwith...give her another week or two of total "alone-ness" so she can begin to feel safe in her surroundings...and then try feeding her in as inobtrusive manner as you can. After she's eaten two or three times in a consistent manner...then you can start trying to handle her.

One more thing about soaking: Be careful of your definition of "lukewarm." That means just a tad above room temperature. If the water actually feels warm to you, then it is likely too hot for the snake. Lukewarm water should be neither warm nor cold to the touch.

Congratulations on your snake. She sounds pretty, and I hope you'll share some pics with us. I have to agree with the others that you very likely have a snake with parasites on your hands and should get her to the vet ( http://www.arav.org to find one if you don't have one yet). Most likely the vet will prescribe a course of Panacur or Flagyl which will clear the problem right up.

Also, as Judy mentioned, there are a lot of ways to get your humidity up or provide a humid hide. Here's one really easy way to make a humid hide: get a round water dish, ceramic or glass is best but plastic is okay too, and buy a liner made of coconut fiber made for hanging plant baskets. They come in a few sizes and can be bought for less than $10 at WalMart or garden stores. Then all you have to do is fill the water dish, trim the basket liner if needed, and provide an entry hole on the top or side, and turn it upside down over the dish, like this:
http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/images/newhide.jpg

That's a technique I've never seen before. I like that!! I may even try it at some point....interesting.

Hey marla that really cool. Mind if i steal your idea and use it for myself.

thanks for all the help. I have been able to get the humidity up now so that problem is solved. I believe she was dehydrated since she was some what wrinkly and she was very dull. Since getting her I have soaked her once a day and given her a large water dish and she is looking much better.
Luckly since working at petco I can take her in and have her checked by the vet at petco for 15 days free of charge. So I may take that route. I have seen him a few time but haven't really dealt with him since I am in aquatics(don't really need the vet).

One question that wasn't answered was that she still hasn't shed, what would draw this out this long? I read that they mostly shed within a week of their eys going blueish.

thanks
JR

I don't mind at all! I had the idea on the spur of the moment one day when I spotted these in the gardening section, and it's worked out really well for me. Better yet, for extra humidity, you can mist it directly without having to spray the snake, it seems to be resistant to mold (makes sense for a plant liner), it's a little scratchy (good for shedding), and the snake loves it. I'd really like to get more feedback on whether they work as well for other folks too.

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Originally Posted by Renzema

One question that wasn't answered was that she still hasn't shed, what would draw this out this long? I read that they mostly shed within a week of their eys going blueish.

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Hmm... well I have not seen my snake shed once, but I have seen his eyes turn blue. Sometimes their eyes will turn blue, then back to normal and then they shed. My BP hasn't shed yet and I've had him since March 17th and he has grown quite a bit! Perhaps he has and it was just a disappearing shed like Smulkin got. I'm not really sure what factors would draw out a shed. I'm sure someone around here does though! :)

Gatordate Method ? .. lol

I am going to try a mouse tonight(sticking w/ live right now since thats what she has always had). Her eyes are back to black now so I think I will try it. I am going to keep soaking her tho, good or bad?
She is very thick and healthy looking. Is there anything thing else that may cause a runny defecation? or is it for sure a Internal Parasite?

Hopefully I can get some pics up soon but have to get a digi camera form a friend.

thanks
JR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marla

I don't mind at all! I had the idea on the spur of the moment one day when I spotted these in the gardening section, and it's worked out really well for me. Better yet, for extra humidity, you can mist it directly without having to spray the snake, it seems to be resistant to mold (makes sense for a plant liner), it's a little scratchy (good for shedding), and the snake loves it. I'd really like to get more feedback on whether they work as well for other folks too.

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It works on all levels!! I was looking for something to add to her enclosure as a 'rub' should she need/want it during her shed, I'm definitely doing this (plus, I have a couple 'in stock' as I use them frequently for my plant collection).....and it looks great too...I'm really digging this idea, can you tell?? :smile:

Renzema, if it was truly a defacation and not urates or both urates and feces, then odds are excellent that it's indicative of parasitic infection. Fortunately that's not usually a big deal to treat, either in terms of effort or expense. I would definitely try to boost her ambient humidity rather than keep soaking her, though, as prolonged soaking can actually be dehydrating rather than rehydrating, and that's counter-productive.

Caren, since you already have a couple "in stock," I'd definitely give it a shot and see how Sophie likes it. I'm looking forward to your report. ;)

Well just went and got a live mouse, yes I know of the risks but she has never seen a frozen mouse. So I thought it more important to get her to eat than to get her on frozen. Well I first tried feeding outside and there was no interested. So I tried feeding inside the tank, it took 1min maybe for the snake to hit,kill,and eat the mouse. So at least some of that worry is gone.
Also I now have an under tank heater so the humditity is now up nice and high w/o a problem. Also got the temp to 88 on the hot side is that a little low?

thanks
JR

hey when a snake defacates, is it supposed to have a white part and then the log also? cuz my snakes remnants vary every now and then. sumtimes he has white clums and its really wet and what not, and the normal times he drops his normal feces. can anyone say what a normal BM is for a snake?

the white clumps are urates .. snakes use as much of the prey item as possible and waste little. Those white clumps are actually the snake version of urine from what I understand. What you described sounds pretty normal from what I have read/experienced but others on here have a lot more snake years than I. :)

As for the temp question: 88 is a bit low for the warm side... ideally the ambient is around 80 -85 and the basking spot is 90-95 deg. F. so 88 is a bit low for the hot side IMO but not so low as to cause an RI - still you should try to up it to around 90 or between 90 and 95. :)

Well since I just added the UTH it is going up, it is at 91 and holding. also she is now sheding her skin. its looking good so far, the head came off all in one and now she is working on getting the body off. I'm amazed that she ate and then about 10min later starts to shed.

thanks
JR

wow awesome. I hope you get a good shed you should if you've got the humidity good. A full one piece shed is a great way to start your relationship haha. My hot stays around 91-92 for the most part I used to have it in the 93-94 range but Icc never used it so I brought it down a touch. Just make sure your cool side doesn't go to 75 or below because that's RI Risk city from what I've read.

okay well the shed is over and it was one good shed, except for the last little bit. so all is good. Now just waiting for next poop to see how it comes out.
So now that the shed is over I can drop my humiditiy down to 60% correct?

thanks for the help
JR

Yes, an average humidity of 50%-60% is fine.

now I am having a hell of a time, the temp on the hot side is 94 but the humidity is now running a nice constant 75% :(. I have tryed moving the towels off the top but then the temp is dropping heavily. Anything will help

thanks
JR

Are you using a UTH in conjunction with a heat light?

I ask because if the light bulb has a wattage that is too high it will get very hot. I use a 60 watt bulb for Jojo's house.

EDIT: Its like a regular bulb not one of these projection types.

One of the biggest problems with a UTH is that it is either ON or OFF and you have no control over how hot it gets. That problem is easily solved though, by plugging it into either a thermostat or a rheostat (light dimmer switch). I've never looked for this type of thermostat at the hardware store so I don't know how much they would be if they have them, but you can find them at many different reptile retail sites, such as Big Apple. With one of those, you set the temp and it turns the unit on and off as needed to maintain the temperature you want. The other is cheaper and can be found easily at any decent hardware store. You have to monitor the temps closely (which you should do in any case) and adjust the switch yourself, but it's not hard to do at all. I've got both types on my various heating units and both work fine. I monitor all my temperatures closely to make sure something hasn't broken down or been played with by little fingers. :)

Hope this helps some.

yes I am using both, the temp is 94 during day(hot area) and 85 at night(hot area). So everything is on track now. I am going to get a dimmer asap because of summer coming. also the humidity is now at 60% and stays there by evaporation from the water bowl.

thanks
JR

okay well here is my next question. I fed my snake an adult mouse and once she got it down there was no lump what so ever. I am planning on getting to large rats from my work(I am adopting them so they will be free and I have a tank sitting around anyways) and I am going to breed them to feed my snake. How old should I let the babies get before I feed them to lucy?

thanks
JR

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How old should I let the babies get before I feed them to lucy?

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Well I dont know on the age part but as I understand you can feed them a rat that has the same or slightly larger girth than your snakes largest part of his body. My BP just ate his first rat the other night and it was probably 2 to 3 times the body size of a full grown mouse. Probably could have gone a little larger, but being that it was his first rat I didnt want to over do it.

see lucy is still very young so that is what I am worried about. She takes down full grown mice without a problem. I was going tlo let her eat the the rats when they are just a little smaller than the mouse I just fed her. Then by the time I get to the last one in the litter it will be just slighlty larger. Is this a good plan?

JR

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As for the temp question: 88 is a bit low for the warm side... ideally the ambient is around 80 -85 and the basking spot is 90-95 deg. F. so 88 is a bit low for the hot side IMO but not so low as to cause an RI - still you should try to up it to around 90 or between 90 and 95.

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I disagree with this statement. 90-95 is much too warm.....a common misconception with Ball Pythons is that because they come from equatorial Africa they need it super hot and dry....this is not the case. BPs spend most of their time underground where it is cooler and fairly moist. Temps that are too warm and too dry is why you see alot of BPs with skin problems and shedding problems. 88 is a perfect temp for the hot side. You want the cool side to be 75-78.Also, BPs do not bask....they are nocturnal.

Dimmer switch at Home depot is around 10 bucks. Keeps my hot side at a constant 90 degrees(digitally measured) and my humidity is around 70 percent with 2/3 of the tank covered with duck tape.

Well everything is good in the cage. So today I picked up a female and male rat from my work and I am going to breed them for food. I just couldn't imagine paying so much to feed when I can get free food and bedding and just let them breed.

thanks
JR

Just one question. Were you planning on taking the male rat out of the cage after they bred? If not, then he will usually stress the mom out, making her eat the babies, or he will end up eating the babies himself. It's not a pretty picture. Once the babies are all eaten, or in the freezer, you can stick him in there again. I just was asking since I didn't think you wanted to lose any baby rats. Good luck to you though. :-D

already have that covered, he will be but in "jail"(just a figure of speech) until I want for them to breed again. The funny thing is I have always thought rats are very disgusting and now I think those 2 are so cute sleeping together. except for there nasty looking tails.lol.
I never make impulse buys so I had this planned out, they have been placed out in the garage with my hospital tank for my reef tank.
I tried to give the rats a decent place to live, so here is the run down. I got them a 40g breeder tank w/ about 2" of pine shavings and one large hide(cardboard box) and then they are being fed pellets from petco that I can get for free.

thanks
JR

LoL, the tails don't bother me, try having a hairless rat. I have one and he is just... well... bald as all get out, except on his face where it looks like he needs to shave. Whiskers are curly too, it's so funny it's sad. LoL Anyway. Those pellets you're talking about, are they alfalfa? If so, I would definately try to find something else like lab blocks (very cheap and you can get a HUGE maybe 40 lb bag at the feed store) Rats can't digest alfalfa and actually use it for nutrients, and it will also give them very smelly, runny poo. Oh and if you can take some of their poo(fresh) to a vet or somewhere who can do a fecal test so you won't have to worry about internal parasites. I just bought a fancy rat and she had tapeworms and coccidia. Not a fun thing to treat, since coccidia takes more than 3 weeks to get rid of. Snakes can't get coccidia, but they can get tapeworms. Nasty little boogers tapeworms are, oh and you can also get them too, bleh, I have had to be meticulous in my handwashing if I held the infected rat. I'm sorry to blabber on about stuff like this. Just thought it would be helpful. And yeah I know what you mean about not making impulse buys, I'm the same way, contemplating every aspect of what's going to be involved (why I haven't gotten a snake yet). Oh yeah, and also, rat's teeth tend to grow pretty quickly if not given anything hard to chew on, so you can give things like crunchy dog food (Ol Roy as I am told is best, cheap and no dyes), toilet paper rolls, and stuff like that. If they do get too long, take them to a vet and he can clip them for you or show you how to clip them. My teacher(who is a vet) showed me how with dog toenail clippers, quick and painless, like floating(filing) a horse's teeth. Ok I am FINALLY done. :-D

awww but I will not let you be done just yet...lol

okay here is one question. How much does a fecal test run? I want to get both my rats tested and get my snake tested. her last defecation was runny(the snake I mean) and I want to be sure there are no internal parasites.

thanks
JR

Hmm, I am going on a guess here since I do them myself for free, I'm sorry you can't just mail it to me :) I would say it would run maybe +/- $10. If the staff is nice, maybe there's a cute vet tech who can do all three for cheap, LoL. That might be pushing it though. Yeah, diarrhea is a great sign for internal parasites, it doesn't necessarily mean your snake got them from being wild caught, who knows if it was or not, but it probably got them from any rodents it ate. That is why freezing is wonderful, it kills anything bad inside the food item. That's why people shouldn't eat sushi from non-reputable places ;) Tapeworms, wheeeee! LoL. Is the snake lethargic at all? Well hydrated? If she is hydrated, then the next poo might as well be more solid, and if so, I would collect it (the poo not the urates) put it in a plastic baggy and take it to the vet as soon as possible, if that's not possible, then stick it in the fridge and take it in the next 24-48 hours, no longer. If it is longer than that, I would toss it, the parasite eggs are usually ruptured and not recognizable. You can always try again next time. With the rats, It might be good to take the cage with you so the tech can select with sample they want to use, but if that's not possible, take the freshest from each rat, a good amount (around 4 pellets of poo), put the samples in separate baggies and label them (ex: Male rat/date). Oh and with the amount of snakie poo you should take, as much as possible. The tech can usually do a couple samples from one piece of poo, since parasite eggs may not be in one sample, but they may be in the next, it's weird like that. Hope you find a good vet who doesn't charge an arm and a leg. Good Luck. If you have any more questions feel free to ask. :)

Now I need to find a place that is used to dealing with reptiles. Do you know a place I can look?

thanks
JR

I breed rats for my snakes. For my smaller snakes, I wait until the rats are fuzzy and their eyes are opened. Then I euthanize them and toss em in the freezer for later use, to kill off any parasites they may harbor. I have a bunch in the freezer from a few months ago that I am still going through, and I have a litter of 10 ready to be killed off, and a pregnant female rat that's going to give birth any day now. it's practically free food!

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Originally Posted by LouEvil

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As for the temp question: 88 is a bit low for the warm side... ideally the ambient is around 80 -85 and the basking spot is 90-95 deg. F. so 88 is a bit low for the hot side IMO but not so low as to cause an RI - still you should try to up it to around 90 or between 90 and 95.

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I disagree with this statement. 90-95 is much too warm.....a common misconception with Ball Pythons is that because they come from equatorial Africa they need it super hot and dry....this is not the case. BPs spend most of their time underground where it is cooler and fairly moist. Temps that are too warm and too dry is why you see alot of BPs with skin problems and shedding problems. 88 is a perfect temp for the hot side. You want the cool side to be 75-78.Also, BPs do not bask....they are nocturnal.

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Good to know - I was just going by the stuff I had read etc. But that explains why Icc doesn't dig the hot hide any warmer than 92 or 93. Thanks David for the info!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renzema

Now I need to find a place that is used to dealing with reptiles. Do you know a place I can look?

thanks
JR

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Check www.arav.org for vets who work with reptiles. Hopefully there is a member in your area.

. Julianne Vickstrom
Eastgate Veterinary Clinic
33888 SE Peoria Rd
Corvallis, OR 97333

yea within a few miles of me. I was worried I would have to go to portland or eugene to find a good vet.

Great!! I found a vet near me through arav and she was excellent. Hope yours works out too. :)

I've looked in there and the closest herp vet was in Temple, TX, about 30 odd miles from me, and the next closest was in Austin, 100 or so miles from me. It's great all of ya'lls vets are so close. I'm glad though that I have a vet for a teacher and he has treated almost everything under the sun, even animals at zoos, which is pretty cool IMO :)

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It's great all of ya'lls vets are so close.

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Yes it would be. My nearest herp vet is 2 hours from me. But luckily a town just 40 minutes from me is getting a exotic specialist in their clinic in July, so that will make it so much closer! Cant wait!

ironhead:
I just noticed in you sig that you have dwarf hamster. I want to ask what spured you to get one and has it become nice. All I have ever seen in those thing are pure evil. They have ripped up quite a few employees. they sometimes jump out of there cages just to bite the people taking care of them.

Also another question I have is, I handle a lot of snakes at work and I make sure to wash my hand and arm before I touch my snake or anything. Will this do or should I be worried about giving her a disease.

thanks
JR

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I just noticed in you sig that you have dwarf hamster. I want to ask what spured you to get one and has it become nice.

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Ok....answer to your question. My daughter and Andariel went to the pet store to get me some mice to feed to my BP. Well, they came home with a dwarf hampster that they said was a gerbil. lol (funniest looking gerbil I ever saw) They say the pet store owner gave it to them for free because it was a mean hampster, and thought my BP could eat it also. Well, I am a softy for cute little critters and since this is not a normal meal for a BP I decided to let my grandaughter keep it as a pet, which she named fudah (food). As far as it being mean, it would lash out at you when you first tried to take him out of his cage, but once he was out he was no problem at all. Loved to run around in his little exercise ball and explore the house in it. Sadly to say....He passed away last week...dont know why, he was fed and watered and kept clean. I just forgot to take him off of my list of critters which I will do as soon as I finish this post.

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Also another question I have is, I handle a lot of snakes at work and I make sure to wash my hand and arm before I touch my snake or anything. Will this do or should I be worried about giving her a disease.

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Personally I would say it is preventive medicine to wash up between every handling. I not only wash my hands and all, but I also use a Sanitizer lotion after the washing. It's allways better to be safe than sorry.

I was my hands with the santizer we use at work, smells like rubbing achohol.

thanks
JR

I guess I will just add to this thread.

Okay I have now had lusy for about 2-3weeks and she is doing great eating like a champ and thick as every but I have yet to see her drink. Is this normal for ball's not to drink very often?

thanks
JR

I've had my gopher snake for almost a year now, and have never once seen it take a drink. It's very likely she does it at night when you're asleep.

About washing your hands and carrying something home to your snake...I would think that so long as you practice good hand-washing (as you do) then you don't have to worry about diseases. What I would be more concerned about is mites hitching a ride home on your clothes....so keep a close eye out for those nasty little boogers! If you ever see them at work, then you'll want to begin some serious preventative measures at home.