Field mice as feeders?

So I have a friend that also owns BP. He only has one BP and I have 2 atm. He just met someone that owns a farm locally and claims to set traps for field mice all the time and catches alot of them, he has no problem handing over the field mices for us to feed our snakes. My frd thinks its ok, should be safe considering they live in the fields not in the city. I'm still concern over disease. what do you guys think? I would really help cut down the rat bills

As long as you're sure no one is putting out poison you should be ok. If you have any doubt though, don't use them.

The rodent bills are worth it when it comes to the health of your animal. Do not feed wild caught food. Not worth the risk to save a few bucks.

I don't reccomend it. That might be different if you lived in the natural habitat of the ball python, in west Africa, and came across wild African Soft furred rats or whatever they eat in the wild, and may not have as big as an effect on their metabolism and parasites that they may have evolved to cope with. I'm not sure if that's true though.

If you do it, it's at your own risk really. We can't stop you from doing it, but be prepared with money for vets if a snake does get sick from it's parasites, it is likely to happen.

Personal experience- When I was younger, we fed the mutual household corn snake wild rat pinks that we found in out chicken coop, dying baby birds, and even dead mice that she would eat on her own if she saw it. She had no visible ailments and lived a healthy life, but very likely had worms and other parasites in her. Note that corn snakes are native to the Americas and might eat those animals in the wild.

My main problem with that aside from they could have harmful parasites and poisons on/in them is that they are dead for any amount of time before you even get them out of the trap. By then there is bound to be all kinds of nasties in them. I personally wouldn't risk it even if you caught them alive then killed them and immediatly froze or fed.

you really need to worry about poison.


apart from that, i would say go for it, theoretically, in practise there are problems. Compare it to domestic cats that are allowed to go outside, a friend of mine has cats and they regularly bring home birds and mice and rats. Sometimes they bring home living birds and let them loose in the living room, with the result of birdpoop everywhere. Most often they bring home a mouse, and then eat it in the living room, they only leave behind some intestines and a piece of fur and one time i witnessed it. I almost got sick, and wont forget the sound when the cat broke down the skull with its teeth and ate it.

But poison is a real problem, pesticides are also poison, and pesticides that are quite harmless to humans and other mammals, but kill all plant life or all insect life or all fungal life, can still be harmful to reptiles. I guess thats the deal-breaker, unless it happens to be an organic farm you have an incalculable risk there. A cat can deal with any chemicals that dont kill a mouse, because both are mammals and the cat is bigger. But BPs are reptiles.

So, theoretically, im all for it and it has a kind of aesthetic to it, but in practise farms are full of chemicals designed to effectively kill entire kingdoms of life (insect or plant or fungusl) while sparing only mammals, without consideration of collaterals. Examples of extreme unwanted side-effects are easy to find, poisoned insects did drive some bird populations into the ground, and poisoned corn did drive some bee populations into the ground. Would we notice if some product some farmer uses to, lets say, kill all insects would also kill all reptiles? No, we wouldnt notice, at least it would take a long while to notice it.

But then, if someone else uses the same mice for his BPs and it works..... i guess its still possible if you go down this road that soon 20 BPs get supplied by that source, and it all goes well for many years, and monsanto launches a new product and all the snakes suddenly get sick or die because the farmer tried it.

Nature is not the threat here, as i said, cats eat wild-caught animals all the time, and they come back with the occasional tick or diarrhoe, and if they come back with an injury its in most cases either modern life (sharp metal or glass or a car) or another cat that hurt them. But farms can be stacked with different poisons, each targeted to effectively kill thousands or even hundreds of thousands of species while only sparing mammals/humans.

Y'all ever heard of freaking parasites?! NOT worth it imo.

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Originally Posted by Andrew21

My main problem with that aside from they could have harmful parasites and poisons on/in them is that they are dead for any amount of time before you even get them out of the trap. By then there is bound to be all kinds of nasties in them. I personally wouldn't risk it even if you caught them alive then killed them and immediatly froze or fed.

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when a farm has mice, you can catch them with glue or nets or even a vacuum cleaner, when they have mice they have A LOT of them. What people imagine when they think about a mouse trap, the wooden thing with the metal spring mechanism on top, is only good to catch 1 mouse that annoys 1 household. when farmers think about a mouse trap, they think about something like a plastic barrel cut in half horizontally, with food inside, set up so that mice can get in but cannot get out, to trap 10-50 per day.

the real concern is poison, and thats a big one. Intestinal parasites would be something to keep in mind, so you would have to regularly send in stool samples for lab analysis, but thats maybe 30-50 bucks once a year. External parasites are either adapted to a furry environment or a naked scaled environment, so that should be rare. But the potential of poisoning does break the deal, unless its an organic farm. (or unless other snakes tried these mice without problems AND you can get a document in writing obligating the farmer to inform you BEFORE trying any new pesticide or fertilizer or whatever new chemical agent it may be).

My point still stands regardless of the trap used. Lol

Just what parasites are you guys thinking might be transmitted from these field mice? Please be specific.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Just what parasites are you guys thinking might be transmitted from these field mice? Please be specific.

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I'll be completely honest here and say I have no idea lol but I wouldn't personally want to risk it. I personally deworm my rat colony once a year and I like knowing they *should* be unable to transmit anything to my reptiles.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Just what parasites are you guys thinking might be transmitted from these field mice? Please be specific.

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i would say: external parasites like mites? near impossible. Gastrointernal parasites? Parasites that go after the intestines? possible. If you have a reptile collection, regular lab screening of poop samples is advised anyway. Many labs sell them and when you buy a kit, the kit contains the info on how to take a good poop sample and where to send it. And the kit is costly, because the lab expenses are already included. You buy the kit, get the sample, send it in, and get a full lab report on the poop sample back. That what vets do, but you can have it retail, and its the ultimate silver bullet to keep your collection free of parasites. Direct lab access at retail level.

if you get a troublesome report, knocking out all the intestinal parasites will be easy.

But no, consider the toxic problems, and consider that it is not a way to save money. Feeding such wild-caught that would otherwise go to waste has aesthetic benefits and brings with it some responsibility, so overall i am or would be for it. It could be a statement.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Just what parasites are you guys thinking might be transmitted from these field mice? Please be specific.

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There are many internal parasites that wild mammals carry.
Some live in the tissues, some are intestinal. (Roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, tapeworms, heartworms)
Dogs and cats get these parasites all the time . Not sure if these particular parasites would harm a reptile,
but it would be very common for wild mice to harbor these parasites.

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Originally Posted by mohawk

There are many internal parasites that wild mammals carry.
Some live in the tissues, some are intestinal. (Roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, tapeworms, heartworms)
Dogs and cats get these parasites all the time . Not sure if these particular parasites would harm a reptile,
but it would be very common for wild mice to harbor these parasites.

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And all these parasites are specific to North American field mice? They aren't found in any other animals that are eaten by snakes anyplace in the entire world?

Unless you guys deworm your rodent colony like I do, then most likely your feeders have parasites as well...

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Originally Posted by mohawk

There are many internal parasites that wild mammals carry.
Some live in the tissues, some are intestinal. (Roundworms, hookworms, whipworms, tapeworms, heartworms)
Dogs and cats get these parasites all the time . Not sure if these particular parasites would harm a reptile,
but it would be very common for wild mice to harbor these parasites.

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Did you google that list of parasites? Can mice even get heartworms? I've never heard that before. You've also forgotten all the flagellates unless field mice have some immunity, which I have also never heard of, to them.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

And all these parasites are specific to North American field mice? They aren't found in any other animals that are eaten by snakes anyplace in the entire world?

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No. These are common in all wild mammals.
Which I suppose, is the reason that a lot of wild caught snakes
are checked, and treated for internal parasites . Also one of the reasons that new additions
are quarantined , and fecal samples are vet checked.
It all comes down to personal preference ........ if you choose to feed wild
caught rodents to your collection, and potentially expose them to parasites,
that is certainly within your right. Heck, I saw someone make a post about feeding
thier ball python wild caught hummingbirds (with the beaks removed, of course).

I guess if the wild caught mice were given a de-wormer (maybe Panacur or something similar),
that would lessen the chance of the snake getting a parasitic infestation .
Food for thought .

Personally, I wouldn't feed wild caught mostly for the reasons mentioned. I'm just looking for facts.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Did you google that list of parasites? Can mice even get heartworms? I've never heard that before. You've also forgotten all the flagellates unless field mice have some immunity, which I have also never heard of, to them.

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I didn't google those, LOL. My friend is a dog breeder, and he threw those out to me.
He also had the idea of giving Panacur to the wild mice.

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

when a farm has mice, you can catch them with glue or nets or even a vacuum cleaner, when they have mice they have A LOT of them.

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTIlOlVT3LI

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Just what parasites are you guys thinking might be transmitted from these field mice? Please be specific.

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Toxoplasmi is a huge concern. It reduces the fear mechanism in all organisms it effects.

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About a year ago I was raising mice in a 10 gallon glass tank with a screen top. I was out loading hay in a barn and found a nest of mice pinkies and decided to bring them home and put them under my feeder mouse to raise up. Let me tell you those mice were something else, they were so fast in the tank that there was no way I was going to catch them by hand. And it's not because they grew up in the wild, I'm pretty sure our common domesticated mice are bred to be very slow moving. These wild mice were so fast the only way I could get them out of the tank was to seal it up and gas the whole thing with CO2. I'll never mess with wild mice again.

In addition to considering parasites and poison, you have to understand that your snake is eating anything that the mouse ate -- and mice eat practically everything -- and some of those things can be quite toxic to snakes.

Remember, your snake isn't getting a choice in this. It simply eats what you put in front of it -- to its nourishment, or its peril. And THAT, is your decision!

<><Peace

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Originally Posted by Pezz

Toxoplasmi is a huge concern. It reduces the fear mechanism in all organisms it effects.

Sent from my LG-M151 using Tapatalk

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You just answered a 4 years post ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You just answered a 4 years post ;)

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Ooops just joined few weeks ago didn't look at date stamp lol

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As did I. lolol