Meat-eater against Ball Python

One of my good friends was planning on bringing a Ball Python into his home within the next few months. His girlfriend, which is also one of my best friends, was completely on board and excited about him getting a snake until she realized that it would have to eat rats. I mean, she understood it had to eat rats, but I guess she didn't completely process the idea of him having to feed rats to the snake. Now, she has essentially told him that she will not allow him to get a snake for that reason.

We were all having a discussion the other night and she told me that she didn't like the idea even though she eats meat. She labeled herself as a "guilty meat-eater," where she feels guilty that she eats meat, but wouldn't actually do anything to NOT eat meat. This girl is one of the most carnivorous people I have ever met and don't understand how she can justify this mindset. She prides herself on her logical thought processes and hates when people come to irrational conclusions based on their emotions or when people are hypocritical. When I say hate, I mean HATE; she can fume for hours. I understand there are people that eat meat out there, but still wouldn't be comfortable feeding a snake, BUT she isn't allowing it because she feels it is wrong - not because she would have to feed it (because she wouldn't).

I told her he has the option of feeding F/T (which is what I do), therefore she wouldn't have to feel bad about him "killing" the rat. I also informed her (in a nice manner) that it is hypocritical of her, who has the ability and cognitive function to change her diet to a vegetarian diet, to eat meat, while essentially believing that it's bad for a snake to eat a rat.

I guess what frustrates me about this whole situation is that she has stated she feels guilty for eating meat, yet won't change her eating habits for the "well-being" of the animal she is eating. YET, she feels it's bad to feed an animal to another animal and, therefore, will not allow her boyfriend to have a snake because it is "wrong." Is there something I'm missing that I don't understand? I would gladly go vegetarian before I expected any of my carnivorous animals to turn into vegetarians, even my dogs (which I believe are technically omnivorous??)!! What are your thoughts on this topic?

**Disclaimer: I do understand it is their decision on whether or not they get a pet, and they should come to an agreement together. I am in no way saying that she should let him get a snake and it is wrong of her to not want one, I am just stating that her REASON on why she feels this way is baffling to me. Also, the girlfriend wears the pants in the relationship, so what she says is usually final.**

Thanks for allowing me to rant :cool:.

Gosh, that's just kind of silly and I don't understand her logic in this. How is a F/T rat ANY different than going to the store and buying a whole chicken to cook? As a matter of fact, the F/T rat was likely killed in a more humane manner than the chicken! *shrugs shoulders*

Sounds just like every woman I have ever known. My girlfriend right now refuses to come over on feed day (So I get a day off!) and if rats are still in the cage the next day I'll never hear the end of it (Which is fine, so I leave one or two in on occasion).

That's some backwards logic. Maybe she's stuck on the "snakes eat cuter fluffy animals" track.

I have a friend who is strictly vegan, but is fine having pets that are strictly carnivores. She knows that while humans have the anatomy to digest a plant based diet, carnivorous animals do not, no matter what their owner's morals are.

Just the fact that there are vegan cat foods is rage-worthy. "Vegan" cats have to have constant urine tests just to verify you're not killing your cat yet. Even then, blindness is very likely.

Idk, seems like she's more grossed out that the BP would eat another animal in front of her. Of course it doesn't make sense, but i think just the idea gets to her, but maybe not to make it sound like she's grossed out by it she just says she doesn't agree...but honestly it's strange :rolleyes:

the big difference here is that she has the option to change her diet.. where as the snake cant live on veggies.. I understand feeling guilty for eating an animal. I mean I dont, but I also grew up farming and know a lot more about where my meat comes from then most people. Sounds like she is just being silly, or maybe she had reserves in the first place and has latched onto this as an excuse not to get the animal. And RaskaNeil Its too bad all the women you know are like that.. not all of us are though just incase you had any doubts.

Missvan - What exactly is the principle she is making? I didn't really get it from your post.

Is it that she holds the position that all carnivores are immoral? I surely doubt that as even the most extreme vegan does not hold that as a universal standard for all species.

I would imagine its the usual "I dont feel comfortable feeding rats to a snake" which is fine because she is not proposing a logical/moral claim but simply a matter of preference. You can just tell her "yeah and I like ice cream, so what?".

If she is saying "it is wrong to feed rats to a snake" then that is another matter, one which logic can tackle because she is making a universal claim.

I honestly do not feel she had any prior reserves, as she is not the type of person to not vocalize her opinions. She has many friends that own snakes, and I am certain she has seen one eat at least once so it's not a gross factor. I just don't think that the fact that her boyfriend would have to actually be the ones to "do the killing" (meaning, place a rat, whether dead or alive, into the cage) that made her realize she was against it. In other words, they would be the ones committing the offense, instead of other people, therefore she had to think about it more. NOW, since she has come to that conclusion, she is fairly against it no matter who does it (including me!). Does that make sense? But really, she wouldn't have to be near it or ever do the actual feeding. They have two cats together (she wanted them) and she decided that she no longer wanted to clean litter boxes, therefore her boyfriend has promised her she never has to clean the boxes and he does it 100% of the time. So, really, it's not a matter of her having to do it or see it. If they owned a snake and she didn't want to ever see it eat, she wouldn't have to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemille

That's some backwards logic. Maybe she's stuck on the "snakes eat cuter fluffy animals" track.

---

I think this may be part of it. I think a piece of bacon is far-removed from a live, intelligent pig, that people forget where it came from. Unfortunately, I think it makes it easier for people to eat meat without thinking about it, yet makes it easy for them to judge other animals from doing the same. But at the same time, in her case, she "realizes" it's bad for her to eat meat, yet still would never go vegetarian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Artemille

Just the fact that there are vegan cat foods is rage-worthy. "Vegan" cats have to have constant urine tests just to verify you're not killing your cat yet. Even then, blindness is very likely.

---

AHHHHG! I just . . . I don't understand . . . *sigh*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Missvan - What exactly is the principle she is making? I didn't really get it from your post.

---

Sorry, let me clarify. She eats meat, yet feels it is wrong for her to eat meat. She also feels it is wrong to feed an animal to another animal. It's confusing and conflicting, because she doesn't want animals to eat other animals, but she understands they have to eat, but at the same time she feels it is wrong. Make sense? So, to hopefully clearly answer your question, she is saying "it is wrong to feed animals to other animals" as well as "I wish other animals didn't have to eat meat." My problem with this ideal is that she continues to eat meat and feeds her cats meat, but feels it is wrong to feed a snake meat.

I suppose my "I would gladly go vegetarian before I expected any of my carnivorous animals to turn into vegetarians, even my dogs (which I believe are technically omnivorous??)!!" was confusing and made it sound like she expected the snake to eat grass, or something. My apologize.

I have no issue with those who do not want to eat meat, and, if you have that believe, I understand if you wouldn't want to see or hear about feeding animals to other animals. I have no problem with people who are scared or grossed out by feeding a snake. BUT, I do not understand someone who says it is bad to feed animals other animals, yet eats meat and feeds her other animals meat.

This is pretty funny. I have my wife who doesn't care for my snakes much, yet she's infatuated with watching them eat.

Wow. This girl seems just plain stupid based on your description. She seems to be going from "logical" to incredibly ILLOGICAL.

She thinks its wrong for an animal to eat another animal? It is impossible for it to be wrong. Certain animals are REQUIRED to eat other animals to survive...


And I'm sorry....If you can't clean up your pets poop, you should not be having a pet. Who does that?? Who wants cats and then decided oh I don't want to clean up its poop anymore. FIND THE CATS A NEW HOME. Clearly you can't deal with the realities of the world. She should go live in a bubble and continue to eat her cheeseburgers and cry about it.


I eat meat. I like meat. I know where it comes from. I believe humans can live quite comfortably on a vegetarian diet. I even believe that a completely vegetarian diet is actually healthier in the long term. Will I stop eating meat because of this? No. Its delicious! But I'm not going to feel guilty for eating meat. Sure, its sad that an animal had to die, but I have to eat. I have to survive. Plus, bacon. Who can resist bacon?


I'd really like to argue with this girl in person. That would be fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Missvan

We were all having a discussion the other night and she told me that she didn't like the idea even though she eats meat. She labeled herself as a "guilty meat-eater," where she feels guilty that she eats meat, but wouldn't actually do anything to NOT eat meat. This girl is one of the most carnivorous people I have ever met and don't understand how she can justify this mindset. She prides herself on her logical thought processes and hates when people come to irrational conclusions based on their emotions or when people are hypocritical.

---

Then call her out on her own illogical choices. She is not operating on logic at all, she is operating solely on `feewings` and not even feelings soundly based in reality.
People like that tend to view an animals `right`to life based on its "cuteness". Bring up insectivorous snakes, if she has no problem with that then she is being hypocritical in the extreme because the planet would not be a whole lot different without rats but, it would be drastically altered by the absence of insects.........

That or watch "The Lion King" with her and highlight the "Circle of Life" part:zerb:

I don't know, even if some how I convinced myself that it's not right or something the fact that the animals would be slaughtered anyway to create the supply for the demand would convince (again) otherwise and I'd eat meat again.

Can you imagine life without meat? I mean, just say it out loud: I don't need bacon. You can't can you? Everyone needs bacon. And meat.

Yes she's being a complete hypocrite. By her own logic, she thinks it's wrong to eat meat and yet she does, so she had no right to claim that anyone should not feed their pets meat or that they eat meat themselves.

And she is NOT opposed to feeding pets other animals, because she has cats and she feeds the cats other animals. Just because it's packaged up in dry kibble(or wet canned) form, doesn't mean it was never a live breathing animal.

If she managed to bring it up to me, I'd set her straight in a hurry.

But yes, it's between her and him what pets they own and why. But if she said to ME, "you shouldn't feed rats to your snakes", I'd set her on her hiney in a hurry telling her that SHE eats animals and SHE feeds her pets animals as food so she needs to shut it.

I think it's time for a new girlfriend :8:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

I think it's time for a new girlfriend :8:

---

Deb with the tough love!

she is retarded and illogical.

she is evil and self centered.

if left to her own ways, she will kill herself with her own poor diet.

the snake is a carinvore, humans are omnivore.

Harry

I have vegan friends. They hate meat because it's their protest against the meat industry and some of their questionable practices.
However, they don't advocate the same for their carnivorous pets. They understand that carnivores need meat to survive.

I can deal with that type of anti-meat person since they're being reasonable. But your friend makes no sense to me. She hates meat, but eats it?! :confusd:
I'm sorry. Unless she goes vegetarian or vegan, I don't think she has the right or credibility to tell her boyfriend that he cannot feed a snake a prey animal. Especially since it needs meat to live. Starving a snake because you don't like animals who eat other animals is animal cruelty.
It won't be her pet anyway. If she doesn't want to watch the snake eat, she could just walk into a different room. :confusd:

That guy should get his snake. And I'm not saying that just because I have snakes. Her argument is just weak and petty.

Agreed!!! :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Missvan

Sorry, let me clarify. She eats meat, yet feels it is wrong for her to eat meat. She also feels it is wrong to feed an animal to another animal. It's confusing and conflicting, because she doesn't want animals to eat other animals, but she understands they have to eat, but at the same time she feels it is wrong. Make sense? So, to hopefully clearly answer your question, she is saying "it is wrong to feed animals to other animals" as well as "I wish other animals didn't have to eat meat." My problem with this ideal is that she continues to eat meat and feeds her cats meat, but feels it is wrong to feed a snake meat.

I suppose my "I would gladly go vegetarian before I expected any of my carnivorous animals to turn into vegetarians, even my dogs (which I believe are technically omnivorous??)!!" was confusing and made it sound like she expected the snake to eat grass, or something. My apologize.

I have no issue with those who do not want to eat meat, and, if you have that believe, I understand if you wouldn't want to see or hear about feeding animals to other animals. I have no problem with people who are scared or grossed out by feeding a snake. BUT, I do not understand someone who says it is bad to feed animals other animals, yet eats meat and feeds her other animals meat.

---

Ok so for "I wish other animals didn't have to eat meat." that is fine, she can say things like "I wish, I feel, I like, I dont like" all she wants. In this case she is not talking about any kind of objective value, so who cares, its just an opinion, like "I wish everyone had pink unicorns".

For the "it is wrong to feed animals to other animals". Simply universalize that principle for her like some others have done. She feeds her cat animals, even if they are processed out of sight out of mind. Ask her if it is wrong to feed a cricket or a roach to a gecko. Ask her if it is wrong to feed a human child baby food which contains meat products. Etc.

Even if she says yes to all of the above, she is still a hypocrite because she eats meat, you can point that out gently to her.

I will bet she says it is wrong to feed a bunny carrots or any plant material,
after all bunnies are herbivores.
simply force them to eat meat ..........

Harry

It isn't as though they can eat anything else. They're not cows, they can't go grazing on the grass(or the substrate.) A carnivorous animal CANNOT garner all their nutrients from volatile fatty acids obtained from plants. Animals can't just suddenly go vegan. The reason cows and such can survive on things like dry hay and grass is because of microbial activity in their guts. Ruminants have to go through a rigorous process of digestion, eructation, and regurgitation to digest plant matter. We can't do that. The snake cannot do that, lions can't do that, cats can't do that, sharks cannot do that.

While a lot of the details of the food industry are overblown(for example, cows are not butchered when they're alive, they're rendered completely brain-dead with a captive bolt gun), I can honestly say that the mice the snakes get are humanely killed.
Giving them a live rat, the rat will be chased around and be absolutely terrified, whereas a frozen mouse was killed with CO2. (They pass out and die without even feeling it.)

"I feel bad for eating meat...but it isn't like I'm going to do anything about it because I'm lazy."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaskaNeil

Sounds just like every woman I have ever known. My girlfriend right now refuses to come over on feed day (So I get a day off!) and if rats are still in the cage the next day I'll never hear the end of it (Which is fine, so I leave one or two in on occasion).

---

I'm sorry to hear most women you know sound squeamish and kind of silly. My Ex boyfriend was more squeamish about my snake's diet than any of my female friends XD

Also, terrible idea to leave the rats in there if they are still alive. I would hate to see your snake get eaten instead of eating! :C

I have came to conclusion, your female friend is a Troll!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaskaNeil

Sounds just like every woman I have ever known. My girlfriend right now refuses to come over on feed day (So I get a day off!) and if rats are still in the cage the next day I'll never hear the end of it (Which is fine, so I leave one or two in on occasion).

---

Seriously? :rolleyes: Spend some more time here and you'll get to know PLENTY of women who like snakes. I personally have more female than male friends who are into snakes.

At OP: Tell your friend to ditch the girlfriend. If he refuses, ditch your friend. Anyone who would willingly date someone like her is not worth spending time with.

Yeah I agree, I have found that many more women are okay with my snakes than men. I have a lot of male friends and quite a few of them are TERRIFIED by snakes. Not sure why.. maybe it has something to do with being manly? I mean, isn't indiana jones afraid of snakes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

I mean, isn't indiana jones afraid of snakes?

---

Yes, BUT he learned that fear when he fell into a railroad car full of them as a teenager! Most people who claim they are afraid of snakes have had no such experience to warrant it. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Annarose15

Yes, BUT he learned that fear when he fell into a railroad car full of them as a teenager! Most people who claim they are afraid of snakes have had no such experience to warrant it. :D

---

Very true, maybe they watched indiana jones too much lol!! Its cool to be afraid of snakes...uh huh..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaorte

Very true, maybe they watched indiana jones too much lol!! Its cool to be afraid of snakes...uh huh..

---

Haha, I'm just glad I watched it enough times to learn that! Harrison Ford was waay to cute to have such a silly phobia for no reason! ;)

I know that the one time I fed live to my boa (we were out of F/T and there was NO WAY I was feeding her a F/T from the pet store) and I felt like a TERRIBLE person. Yet when I feed F/T it's no different than me handing a biscuit to my dogs. She might just be hung up on the thought of having a live animal killed by another animal when she could've prevented it, even if you've told her that they could get F/T.

I feel bad sometimes if I really sit down and think that my burger used to be a living, breathing animal. But I love burgers and chicken sandwiches and steaks, they taste amazing and they're good for you (not referring to fast food). There ARE these "snake sausages" that they make that are essentially hot dogs for reptiles. I don't know much about them though but that might be a way around her whole hypocritical argument.
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/pro...e=Reptile+Diet

I think she's just grossed out about having to keep dead rats in the freezer...












Ps. Indie fell into a car-full of VENOMOUS snakes. I probably would develop a phobia too if that happened to me as a kid. xD

She sounds bat sheet crazy.....How does she explain carnivores as part of the global and natural biological food chain then?

I think if you drop a few live rats off at her place and they invade her house she will invite some snakes over real quick. Maybe that is alittle drastic,but still an option.

I don't understand how she can disagree with nature.

I do not eat red meat. i used to be a vegan like my fiance until i started working out a alot and to bulk up to the weight im at its easier to eat fish, chicken, ect.. And i am not against feeding rodents to snakes. Even live (i always feed f/t though). A snake cant change its diet and adjust but we can. Its a big difference. If she was at first willing to get the snake its diet should not turn her off to unless shes squemish at the look of a dead or live mice.

Sounds to me like she's a couple of meaty ham sandwiches short of a picnic. Trying to argue against her illogical outlook is going to be about as successful as, I don't know, something unsuccessful.
Give up while you're still sane (I presume you're sane, anyway) and be glad you get to have snakes.