My First Year Breeding Recap and Rant

So last year was my first year breeding. And I was excited. I was initially only going to have 3 clutches tops. But through some unexpected circumstances I ended up with 7. Which yielded over 50 babies.

Now I was super dupers excited every time a snake poked it's head out an egg. Especially the first clutch! I had glorious odds resulting is the 1/32 chance Pewter Albino hitting! I felt like I won the lottery with that one. But once it hits you that you have 50+ new mouths to feed, reality kicks you in the nuts. It was a PITA to feed and clean them all on top of all the adults. And on top of that, some of them wouldn't eat. I can deal with adults not eating. But babies are frustrating! Even with assist feeding some never ate or hardly ate and about 7 died to just not eating enough. It seriously turned from a fun little hobby to overwhelming not fun work.

And on top of that, I learned that hard way that the prices people post, for the most part, are nowhere even near what they will actually sell for. For example, I have a female kingpin still. KS over the months has had equivalent aged and sized Kingpins for anywhere from $700-1400! What kind of absurd range is that?! And my policy was always to undercut the lowest price I saw because I wasn't in this strictly for the money. I just wanted to move them out without being low balled. But that only led to sells twice.

I sold a few through Craigslist oddly enough. About 8 that way.

I really really just lucked out with a chance encounter with a guy who over heard me talking about my babies who ended up buying about 30 of them which put me down to the 10 babies I now have. 8 of which I am for sure keeping.

I have just recently started to feel like this isn't a second job I don't get paid for again. And I am not actually contemplating breeding this year. Just on a much smaller scale.

So if you take anything from this, don't dive head first even if you think you know where the bottom is. The waters can distort the truth.

Good input. People getting in to breeding really should listen to all the advice there is about preparing for babies. So far, I've had 8 clutches to deal with personally, and in breeder loan/trade I've had 5 clutches I've dealt with some babies from. I've had to assist feed 3 babies. I don't have mice available, just rats. Maybe mice would have helped...but we've been fortunate to have gotten them eating rats.

Babies are cute and fun. They can also take a lot of time and be a lot of work. It's definitely something a new breeder needs to gear up for.

I have a friend that has about 30 breeding females and 5 males. This is his first year. I keep telling him to get ready for babies. Hopefully he handles it all well.

Good luck this time around!

Very good point! I'm glad I only have one female that seems to be going this year so far... as this is my first year. I can only imagine how overwhelming it was for you!

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Originally Posted by ClarkT

Good input. People getting in to breeding really should listen to all the advice there is about preparing for babies. So far, I've had 8 clutches to deal with personally, and in breeder loan/trade I've had 5 clutches I've dealt with some babies from. I've had to assist feed 3 babies. I don't have mice available, just rats. Maybe mice would have helped...but we've been fortunate to have gotten them eating rats.

Babies are cute and fun. They can also take a lot of time and be a lot of work. It's definitely something a new breeder needs to gear up for.

I have a friend that has about 30 breeding females and 5 males. This is his first year. I keep telling him to get ready for babies. Hopefully he handles it all well.

Good luck this time around!

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:O Oh my gosh!!!

My one piece of advise for anyone who is breeding for their first time: Predict the number of babies you could possibly end up with and purchase necessary housing, f/t rats and all the necessary bedding to sustain them for at least 3 months.

I have seen people hatch snakes and then scramble to try and find food for them, or afford food for them all because they didn't plan ahead.

How very true this is!

My first year breeding, I had one clutch. So feeding and caring for 6 babies was no big deal. This past season I had 4 females going. One had 12 eggs. I ended up with 25 babies from just 4 females, and even with my own breeding mice, I still scrambled to keep them all fed. And here is another thing: Babies mess. A LOT. Sometimes it felt like I was changing baby tubs 3 and 4 times a day while they were on paper towels.

Now this year, I have the potential to have 9 females produce. I am not entirely sure I can deal with that many babies. And my husband does not seem to comprehend my reluctance to pair that many. He seems to think it will be no big deal, and it means more money. Time will tell I suppose.

Bottom line is, think carefully about how you will handle babies BEFORE you start pairing every female you can get your hands on.

Gale

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Originally Posted by TJ_Burton

My one piece of advise for anyone who is breeding for their first time: Predict the number of babies you could possibly end up with and purchase necessary housing, f/t rats and all the necessary bedding to sustain them for at least 3 months.

I have seen people hatch snakes and then scramble to try and find food for them, or afford food for them all because they didn't plan ahead.

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All of this was fine. For me it was just the amount of time and effort involved as more and more babies hatched. It didn't help that I wasn't selling them in what I thought was a timely manner. I didn't expect to still have over 30 after 6 months.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

All of this was fine. For me it was just the amount of time and effort involved as more and more babies hatched. It didn't help that I wasn't selling them in what I thought was a timely manner. I didn't expect to still have over 30 after 6 months.

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I know what you mean; most do not consider that they will be holding on to a lot of these snakes for a while. The thinking goes along the lines of "oh, I just need to get 3 meals into them and I can post them for sale, and they will sell within a week or so" which is just not the case. Be prepared to watch at least half your babies hit 400-600 grams before you end up selling them. I plan to keep most females until they hit that size because it makes them easier to sell and worth more than a hatchling. Yes time, food, bedding, electrical etc. goes into that as well, but overall it is a better practice IMO.

My advice was a general statement on the topic - not directed at you at all.

This is my first year breeding and I have 3 females I have personally paired with my males, and two normals that were paired prior to shipping. I'm not entirely sure that all of my girls will go this year, and that is perfectly fine with me! I am prepared to take 3-4 clutches at a time in my incubator (maybe more if they are small clutches). Right now I've only seen one ovulation and only a little bit of building behavior in the other 4.

I have one 6qt, 12 slot hatchling rack and already I'm thinking I'll need another. I have plenty of room for adults and sub-adults.

As far as selling babies, I have been dedicating the past 6-8 months to my facebook page, Hugs and Hisses. Taking great photographs is key if you wish to move your animals quickly. Having a customer base is important, but if you have crappy pictures people will just skim right over your ads. We've been focusing a lot on photographing the animals we currently have so people know the quality of our breeding stock.

Also I believe that branding your "business" is a great idea. I really like doing graphic design on the side and I have made 4 or 5 logos for people and everyone seems to like them. A good logo, business card, banner, display, photographs, care sheets, and customer service can go a long way to helping you sell your babies in a reasonable amount of time. There are plenty of breeders out there who have offspring so sought after that they never have ANY animals on their available page.

I know I am going to hatch normals this year and I know I don't plan on keeping them. What I've decided to do is to sell them to people I know for a very reasonable price. I have quite a few friends that are interested in snakes and would make great owners. I've also considered making up "starter kits" to sell with the animal. A tub, substrate, hides, water bowl, thermostat, and thermometers that all come with the snake for a set price.

Your experience has confirmed my decision.
This is my first year breeding. I only plan on doing 1-2 clutches a year for the reasons you listed in your OP.

Thank you for sharing your honest experience of being a small hobbyist breeder and i wish you good luck with your projects. It highlights the issue that selling babies in this economic environment is not easy, even if you have good marketing/networking and beautiful morphs at a competitive price. Often times people get into breeding, do some number crunching, but forget that selling babies is not guaranteed and then they severely undercut prices in order to sell them. Also, the babies will outgrow their hatchling bins relatively quickly if you do the right thing by feeding them normally, rather than underfeeding them. It saddens me when i see 2012 ball pythons for sale that still weigh under 200g. As they grow, you will need to move them to a larger rack, which is more expensive per cubic feet, and take up more space. They will need larger more expensive prey and pretty soon, you can find yourself being overwhelmed with the time commitment and cost involved with raising your babies that you cannot sell.

I only produced one clutch last season. I decided to hold back three and sell two. I managed to sell one so far, but if the other one doesn't sell, then i don't mind keeping her at all. This season, i'm hoping to produce two clutches because that is manageable for me even though i have more females that i could breed. I enjoy taking care of my balls and i clean them as soon as i notice they're dirty, but at the same time, it's a commitment that needs to be taken seriously and i want optimal flexibility in my day.

Again, thank you for sharing your honest experience. It's very much appreciated.

Almost all of my sales have come just after the new year. For the last 4 years, I have tried to sell animals after the 3 meal mark. I have moved a few here and there, but most have come at the change of the year. This year I had 11 snakes for sale. I sold all of them within 2-3 weeks of each other. I think some of it has to do with people shopping around to see what is available, and some of it has to do with Tax money. As far as pricing goes, I price middle to high in the market. Let's face it, we all do this for the same reasons. Love of the animals and to make a little extra money. What bothers me is the lowball offers, especially in the public view. Feel free to to PM me an offer, I may take it, I may not. If I chose not to, feel free to go to whomever it is you saw that had it cheaper. I price my animals for what I see they are worth. You learned this year that it is a lot of hard work. The lowballers learn that as well then "dump" the animals so they don't have to do the work. I'm all for wholesaling animals; less work, and you get to keep what you want. My piece of advice for people just starting out. Babies are hard work and eat a lot. Start out with a clutch or 2 to see if it's something that you want to expand. I read a story once of a guy that was going to make some cash in one season then expand. He bred 2 males (I think a Spider and Pastel) to something like 30 normals. Most laid eggs and hatched. He couldn't house them all or feed them all. He dumped the babies off for what he could get and had a lot of babies die. He then complained that no one was buying anything from him (nobody even knew him). He has since left the hobby altogether. Mason, don't get down. Just pick and choose what you really want to work with each year. Nobody says you have to pair them all. Just have fun doing what you do and the rest will work itself out.

Great points for many to consider, raising those babies can be expensive and is definitely time consuming and ends up to also be a lot of work.

One of the things we do to keep our numbers down is to wholesale the normals as soon as they've gotten 3 meals in them.
Getting your name out there and producing quality animals will help tremendously.
If you are picky about what you breed you will find that they sell well.
We've been able to sell out fairly quickly the last few season even with a down economy, but not everything sells in a week or two so one must be prepared for that.

I am lucky to have a partner that I can share the work with, it makes this endeavor so much easier for both of us :)

You do need to develop a reputation in order to sell the animals. Marketing your snakes and yourself is just as important as setting the price properly. When you think of the work and needs for marketing, you need to make sure you figure in display cases, banners, table covers, business cards, etc. for vending at reptile Expos. You can sell strictly on the Internet, but I've found it is much easier to sell the babies if people have met you face-to-face or know you by reputation. I sell about half locally and about half I ship out. This year, I have not done a lot of marketing on the Internet because I wanted to hold some stock back so I could vend local shows early in the year.

I don't find caring for the babies that difficult. I have plenty of feeders to get them started, then I switch them over to f/t. I buy f/t in bulk to save money (hint - you will need freezer space to accommodate feeders for several months). If you have a good hatchling rack, it doesn't take much time. I can clean my baby rack in about an hour to an hour and a half (my wife helps - we have a routine and method that we have worked out over the last few years). The key is to get the right tools for the job.

I do think that people getting into this hobby to make a little money needs to start out small and grow each year. I've developed methods for cleaning, feeding and care of my large collection that took me a lot of time to figure out. By starting out small and growing each year, the education process wasn't overwhelming, nor was the care for the colony overwhelming. A tweek here and a tweek there to save some time and money.

This hobby/business is capital intensive where it takes a lot of money up front and if you jump in too fast, you will find that it becomes a big chore. When it becomes a chore and you put all of that money into it up front, you will start to look at it as a lost investment. So, my advice would be to buy quality animals, plan your genetics work, don't go into debt, build each year, grow only as fast as you have the time to work with the animals.