Incubating With The Spider Gene

I've used the search feature and I know plenty about the Spider gene. I have a Spider/Mojave and Spider males that I'm going to be breeding in the future. One has a wobble and one does not. I have heard from 2 breeders that incubating at 86-87 instead of 89-90 can sometimes reduce the wobble. Any truth to this or it all just by chance? What's your target incubation temp? Just curious. THX

Im not sure, i've never really heard of this. If you incubate at 86/87 they will take longer to hatch.

I'm not really sure about this theory either, but plan to incubate at 87-88. They might take a little longer to hatch, but I don't mind it taking a little longer if it potentially can help with that problem.

I've heard this theory, and I've heard even more times that it is false. I incubate at 88-89deg, and have only had one bee out of 12 spider combos in the last two years show any wobble. The other 2 in his clutch show zero wobble. That probably isn't a big enough sample size to form my own definitive opinion on the matter, but for now I intend to continue incubating exactly as I have. I struggle with believing that a 2% temperature change can really make that big of a difference.

I am not going to get into the long-winded version of this, but here you go:

I had a major kinking issue with Super Cinnamons last season. I incubated 89/90.F and had no fluctuations that I am aware of. I posted regarding this issue and had some response from larger breeders making the single suggestion that I incubate lower at around 87/88.F as that is the temp their females find in the bin when coiled with eggs. The breeder that specifically mentioned 88.F being his females preferred temp when coild on eggs also hatched plenty of super cinnamons with no defects at all. This would lead me to believe that lower temps are preferable than higher temps even if we are only talking 2.F difference.

I may attempt another pairing that could yeild super cinnamons, and I will be incubating around 87/88.F this time.

No the wobble thing is part of the genetics and nothing to do with the incubation temps.. Been there tried that..

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No the wobble thing is part of the genetics and nothing to do with the incubation temps.. Been there tried that..

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Yeah I didn't even address that...

Wobble is a part of the gene, ain't no incubation temp going to fix that.

I have been incubating spiders and spider combos at 88-90 degrees with no issue.

No side negative effects from incubating a degree or so lower? I don't expect so, but just want to check.

Are we incubating at the upper end of the scale to hurry hatch time?

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Originally Posted by aldebono

No side negative effects from incubating a degree or so lower? I don't expect so, but just want to check.

Are we incubating at the upper end of the scale to hurry hatch time?

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Slow and steady wins the race. If female ball pythons incubate their eggs naturally at 88.F than I would rather follow their lead than incubate at higher temps. A little too low, and it takes a little longer for them to hatch, a little too high, and that is where you can start running into problematic defects.

I have incubated at 89 for everything. I have never had an issue with spider or spider combos. I tried the lower temp on caramels and super cinnies last season. With 3 clutches of caramels, two clutches came out perfect. The unrelated clutch, all kinked. With the super cinny stuff, I've hatched out a few Super Pewters and Silver Bullets that were all perfect. The few Super Cinnies I've hatched 2 of 3 were kinked. I think it's a flip of the coin. I have more stuff I'm trying this season.

Great opinions folks. Thank you. And no, I would never use warmer temps to speed things up. I won't even get to pair my snakes until fall of NEXT year so patience won't be an issue at all by then.

OK so we are incubating at 88 degrees based on the fact that it is what the females choose.

I was just making clarifications.

It is clearly a genetic issue. From what I have seen few have the ability to be more than one degree accuracy anyway so a set point of 88 could be 87-89. Many likely have greater variation than this so the debate is moot as the exceptional fine environmental controls needed is in many cases lacking.


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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No the wobble thing is part of the genetics and nothing to do with the incubation temps.. Been there tried that..

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I'm with him. I don't know how incubation could change the predisposed genetic mutation.

I do 87.7 with my herpstat. I have never even done 90. I figure if a couple extra days helps out why not? I don't have any Carmel projects so I can't commit on that but I have heard 87 helps both.:gj: