Introducing the Green Labby Ball!!!

I would love to introduce a new project that we are working on over here a JHB. This is a brand new mutation and a joint project between JHB Reptiles and Next World Exotics. So the story goes... several years ago Jonathan Dvoretz at Next World Exotics imported a female from Africa and named it the Green Labyrinth ball python, needless to say when i saw the snake about 5 years ago i was amazed at the color and the pattern of the animal. The name Green Labyrinth or Green Labby as we call it was a perfect fit. After 2 seasons of trying to breed the original Labby ball unsuccessful, Jon finally got a clutch from her. The Bee x Labby pairing yielded 3 eggs and out came a labby male which I got the chance to raise up at my facility. I bred the Labby male to a normal female and produced another female Green Labby about 2 years back. This year we have a shot at producing supers from two female Green Labby's. I am extremely excited and humbled to have this wonderful animal in my collection and I can say the same on Jon's behalf. We are both anxious to see how the super form will turn out if there even is one. If not the animal in its Heterozygous form is a great looking snake. This year which I will show in another thread sometime soon in the breeding section we are breeding the male Green Labby to a number of animals and are excited to see how the Labby crosses come out! Pictured Below are all of the Labby's that are apart of this breeding program this year!

Here is the Original Green Labby Female
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/image-4.jpg

Here is her son, the proven breeder that we are breeding this year to a couple females for some first time Green Labby crosses!
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/image-5.jpg

Finally, here is our males daughter that I produced 2 years back, she is unreal!
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...iles/photo.jpg

So there it is! The Green Labby ball python, Im very excited about the future with this project and hope you guys are as well. Id love to hear what you guys think about the project so any feedback would be great. Keep your eye out, big things to come from these guys.
Thanks for taking the time to check them out. Hope everyone is having a great breeding season.

What exactly are the features of a Green Labby that make it different it from a normal?

I was wondering the same thing.

I was thinking that too. Looks like a nice normal to me.. Does it do anything else or have you bred it to any morphs yet?

Their pattern and color are completely different from any normals, ill take some pictures of some normals and labbys next to each other. The female i produced literally looks like she has green hues to her.

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being bred to morphs this year, like i said it is something completely new. it is 100% not a normal.

looks new to me, basically the eyes of the alienheads and the color of the eyes of the alienheads, there is something going on here i think.

nice project. But much will depend on the supers, and how healthy and fertile the supers are.

I mean I can see that it looks different but why wait to breed it to any morphs ?

This is the first year ive decided to breed my male to any morphs because i wanted to make more green labbys first just to make sure and there are now 4 labbys to date.

I can see the difference. Next to a normal you could probably see the colors better. Good luck with the project. Hope there is a super for you!

Thank you, ya the difference is really night and day in person.

quote: "I mean I can see that it looks different but why wait to breed it to any morphs ?"

verifying the super-form is of the highest importance, so the super-form, without any other morphs, is a milestone that has to be reached as soon as possible.

the next step, when the price is crazy high on the morph, is to breed to many different normals or codominant base morphs to spread it into different projects, so that the new morph starts out with a decent amount of genetic diversity. then breed back for more supers that are to a degree (75% or more) unrelated to each other.

breeding super to super or getting the gene into recessive morphs using supers is step 3. And then you have it all, end of story.

its about priorities, and the first priorities are getting the super and ramping up genetic diversity, and ramping up quality by breeding to excellent specimens.

I can see a difference also, like there are only two tones with no variation, unlike the Normals who have some variation in their colors throughout. Would love to see them side by side to a Normal... good luck with the possibilities and I'd be interested to see a Super, if there is one!

well said! The super is essential to figure out before any animal could be offered for sale. Im personally breeding him to morph females and shooting for supers this year because even if there is no super, the labby will tweak the pattern of other morphs in theory.
Thanks
- Josh

good luck :)

Think about pinstripe.... there seem to be perfectly healthy and nice super pinstripes, but they look 100% exactly like the heterozygous pinstripe. It took years to figure that out ^^

and if the super form is unhealthy or mysteriously absent, that will decrease the usefulness of the whole morph.

an epic win could also be possible, think about leopard where the super is a pied. or another solid black or solid white snake would also be nice.

Probably one of those that camera just can't do justice as well. I am loving their pattern too.
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Im shooting for the epic win! lol. Labby females so far seem to lay healthy clutches, males reproduce just fine, babies hatch out nice and healthy and seem to be fantastic feeders, so far so good. Kinda hoping the super isnt black or white, I would love a busy patterned animal, but who knows, this year we will find out.
Thanks
- Josh

Exactly, its one of those animals that are very difficult to get pictures of, kind of like red stripes and black bellies.
Thanks
- Josh

Looks remarkably like a "dinker" female I have. Bought her out of a large group a few years back, got a clutch of supremely hot fires from her last year. Out of nothing more than my own curiosity and wishful thinking, would you mind telling me exactly what it is you look for to distinguish this morph from the normal siblings?

Obviously I have a really nice normal female, but hey I can dream can't I ?

Gale

I can definitely see the resemblance in all of them so I am hoping you hit on something big. It looks like a great project!

Hey guys... been a long time since i was on here :)

Josh isnt the best with the camera yet, but they are definitely very cool in person.

The original female i got in 2003 i think as she grew she turned a greenish color and her spots became much more faded. I originally thought she was a "labyrinth" but they proved to not be genetic over the next few years so i didnt spend to much time with her.

Then josh breed her to a bee when he worked here and we produced the first male and also proved she was definitely genetic. There are a few key traits besides the obvious color and faded spots. They also have black lines down their stomachs similar to Black Bellies. I may have some belly pics somewhere.

Heres some photos of the original female taken in i think 04 when she was about 400 grams

http://nextworldexotics.com/images/greenlabby1.jpg

http://nextworldexotics.com/images/greenlabby2.jpg

Thanks
Jon Dvoretz
www.nextworldexotics.com

I made the post above... i was wondering why it said i joined in 2012 lol didnt know i had 2 accounts here

Guess I'm not as sold as everyone else but still looks like a nice looking normal to me...

It is not a normals, it has reproduced itself 3 times.

Any snake can reproduce itself. Just because I have a banded normal that makes more banded normals doesnt mean it's a awesome new morph? Same concept. I get the need to find out if there is a super but if it was really THAT important of a project the male would have been bred to some other stuff by now. Yellowbelly, mystic, heck even a pastel or something

Labbys bred to normal will make labbys and normals, same as if a pastel x normal will make pastels and normals. If you read my posts above, this is the first year the labby has been breeding other morphs, he has been paired with a ton of codoms. I have been waiting simply because we wanted to make sure we can make more labbys before we made crosses.

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Originally Posted by JHB Reptiles

Labbys bred to normal will make labbys and normals, same as if a pastel x normal will make pastels and normals. If you read my posts above, this is the first year the labby has been breeding other morphs, he has been paired with a ton of codoms. I have been waiting simply because we wanted to make sure we can make more labbys before we made crosses.

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I think you should post up some pics of Green Labbys next to Normals for comparison. The snake on its own may not stand out they way it does in person without that visual reference to compare it with.

ya ill do that later today, really the two next to each other look nothing alike.
- Josh

Comparison pics would help some, but I can definitly see the difference. The original female and her son especially! They look great! Congrats on taking the time to prove it out and i hope it pays off for you. Well done Sir's!


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Sortof has a woma / spotnose look to it :gj:. I like how the spots are faded. When do you suppose we'll see combos? That's really when things start to get rolling :P!

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Sortof has a woma / spotnose look to it :gj:. I like how the spots are faded. When do you suppose we'll see combos? That's really when things start to get rolling :P!

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I agree the faded spots is what attracts me to it too. I can't wait to see the combos. Maybe it'll through something new :)


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I can definitely see the difference, very subtle and a nice pattern along their back. Have you proved out or have any suspicion if Dom, CoDom, or Recessive? Any Super forms?

I can't wait to see it mixed in with other morphs. The Orange Dream started the same way and is a very subtle base morph...but then add it into combos and WOW!

Good luck my friend, I wish you all the best on the project!

Neat. It's very subtle but I can definitely see some variation from the norm there. Hope to see what the super is soon and some combos. Good luck on your project!

Im hoping that its codom so that I can see a super, crosses are in the making as we speak and supers are being attempted as well, everything will unfold soon and we should really learn more about it I just wanted to share the original snakes with everyone first, I have a feeling they're gonna be fantastic looking!
Thanks
- Josh

Here are the comparison pics next to a normal ball python, the difference is clear as day!
Here is the adult female labby next to an adult female normal, the labbys as adult change, somedays she looks axanthic like today and some days shes green, especially when shes ovulating.
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/image-7.jpg
Here are the adult female labby and juvenile female labby next to that same normal. Look at the green on that juvie!!
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/image-6.jpg

I hope to see you post up a super soon; also looking forward to some combos.

Definitely making it a priority this season to do so!
Thanks
- Josh

Oh yeah there is definitely something wacky going on there. I really hope that the super (if there is one) is radically different. Not because I dislike the project but because it would be really cool and in your words an "epic win". I look forward to seeing what comes of this. Good luck to you guys!

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Originally Posted by Andybill

Oh yeah there is definitely something wacky going on there. I really hope that the super (if there is one) is radically different. Not because I dislike the project but because it would be really cool and in your words an "epic win". I look forward to seeing what comes of this. Good luck to you guys!

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I agree completely!

For everyone say they look normal.... are you kidding me? faded spots like that are not normal. It's not even subtle. Then there is the color and pattern.

Good luck in producing the super, I think there is a lot of potential there.

Thank You! I was really taken back when a few people thought they looked normal because they really aren't different! Even those pics with the normal don't do them justice, they are literally "green" in person!

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Originally Posted by JHB Reptiles

Thank You! I was really taken back when a few people thought they looked normal because they really aren't different! Even those pics with the normal don't do them justice, they are literally "green" in person!

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Meant to say they really are different!

I see the difference clearly. And the similarities to my own dinker are really weird. However, my girl has a completely clean belly, and you say these do not.

For laughs, would you mind if I post up a picture of my girl, and you can tell me if I'm imagining her looking similar ?

Gale

Go for it, here is a labby belly.
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/a...titled-115.jpg

Thanks for posting pics of them with a Normal... it really shows how they are different! Keep us updated on this project, pretty-pleeeeaaaase! :)

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Originally Posted by JHB Reptiles

Meant to say they really are different!

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Is the green just not showing up in the photo's?
This is an honest question as there are some greens I can't see, having a very minor form of colour-blindness.
Then I've noticed with my own snakes, sometimes I would take a photo then go look at the pic and think, "That doesn't look anything like what I just saw." Then have to go re-take the pics with improved lighting. (My orange ghost for instance pre-shed is absolutely blue not just the eye-caps)

Green isnt showing up very well, but if you look at the photo with the two labbys and the normal, you can see that the smaller labby has a lot of green hues to her.
Thanks
- Josh

You know, I'm absolutely horrible about picking out subtle morphs like this. However, I noticed the faded spots on the alien heads. It's like they are a faded brown and not black (like in a normal). Great project! I can't wait to see what it does in other morphs.

Ok, just for laughs, here is the girl that I think looks kind of like your Labby's. Be gentle to me. :P

This is her in Ovy last year:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/IMG_0149.jpg

This is her next to a "normal" normal:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/IMG_0029.jpg

This is her on her clutch:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...s/IMG_0169.jpg

She has the same faded eyes in her alien heads, it's why I picked her out of the group years ago. Can you see at least a little bit that she looks something like your Labby's? Or am I crazier than usual? She does not however have belly markings like that.

Gale

Looks exceptionally similar to me, Gale. Maybe it is another of the same mutation (lemonback and fire, mojave and lesser, etc.)!

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Originally Posted by JHB Reptiles

Green isnt showing up very well, but if you look at the photo with the two labbys and the normal, you can see that the smaller labby has a lot of green hues to her.
Thanks
- Josh

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The green and light pattern remind me of the Congo gene. Have you had the opportunity to compare the Green Labby next to a Congo to see how similar they may be?