Gravid BPs? Can you really tell?

I see Ads here and there for gravid BPs, and some people pick up WC gravid.... My questions - How can you tell if a snake is gravid? Can you tell by looking at them, or are people taking a chance that the snake is not truly gravid? I know they get huge during building and such, but at that point they could always reabsorb their follicles, correct?

Thanks for taking the time to read (and hopefully answer) my silly questions :)

A lot of people can palpate and feel the eggs inside the females. Some have ultrasounds as well and can see inside the girly.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

A lot of people can palpate and feel the eggs inside the females. Some have ultrasounds as well and can see inside the girly.

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X2.

Outback has WC gravids.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

X2.

Outback has WC gravids.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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^I got one of theirs.

The girl I bought was listed as a WC gravid "burgundy" morph at 3,090 grams, I believe. Whether or not she proves to be a burgundy morph or not remains to be seen. She definitely has a different look/coloration to her, so I'll be holding back most if not all of her clutch if she goes to try & prove her out & see about combos in the future if her colors are genetic. I'll see about getting some photos of her in the next few days if I can do it without bothering her too much. She definitely has eggs (palpating) but I have no idea how far along she is or when I should be expecting her to lay. The incubator's up & going just in case, lol!

I came across an ad recently for a couple of gravid females... Sort of thought about picking them up if the price is right, as I was looking for one of the morphs anyway, and the other is a Normal (which I wouldn't mind adding) but being pretty new, I don't want to get duped... Any advice?

Are gravid females higher cost than non-gravid?

Oh!! And good luck!! ^^^ :) I have my incubator up and running JUST IN CASE, too! I wanted to make sure my temps were good and stable! Fingers crossed for you!

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Generally yes, gravid females will cost more than non-gravid.

1. Being that they have eggs inside them that if fertile will turn into more snakes for you.Your essentially paying for her and her 'possible' babies.
2. If she was bred to a morph(s) and produces fertile eggs that again is more babies for you and likely an instant return on your investment depending on what she was bred to.

Only way that could go bad is if the gravid female lays all slugs/infertiles which can't really be blamed on either party,or if all the eggs hatch out as plain normals :P, but least you's get the experience of hatching eggs if you haven't already.

You can absolutely see when a female is gravid a few weeks after ovulation. Their body shape changes - pronounced spine, almost look "skinny" even though they aren't losing any weight, and if you're gently you can hold them up and actually see the outline of the eggs in their bellies, as well as see the position of the eggs as they move down and get nearer to laying. I do NOT palpate gravid females. IMO, palpating is for follicles. Egg walls are too fragile for me to be willing to jab my fingers in her belly just to satisfy my own curiosity. It might be paranoia, but oh well. Most ultrasounds are done to determine follicle size, also, not eggs.

I bought an imported gravid female that layed 5 good eggs, 6 slugs. The 5 eggs may or not be fertile.

I have read from bigger breeders that adults like this that are imported can be difficullt to breed in the future, I think it was three years in a row so far that this one particular imported granite didn't lay fertile eggs.

I bought gravid for the experience, not for making money. Also remember the female could be VERY hard to get to feed. You should have a supply of asf's if she needs it.

And finally, imported will have internal parasites. Plan on at least one vet visit and a round of Panacur.

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Originally Posted by kyote19

Generally yes, gravid females will cost more than non-gravid.

1. Being that they have eggs inside them that if fertile will turn into more snakes for you.Your essentially paying for her and her 'possible' babies.
2. If she was bred to a morph(s) and produces fertile eggs that again is more babies for you and likely an instant return on your investment depending on what she was bred to.

Only way that could go bad is if the gravid female lays all slugs/infertiles which can't really be blamed on either party,or if all the eggs hatch out as plain normals :P, but least you's get the experience of hatching eggs if you haven't already.

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How much more would a person expect to pay for a gravid female? I'm looking at 1 Butter and potentially 2 Normals... I'm not sure what they have been paired with, but the owner needs to find new homes for them pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

You can absolutely see when a female is gravid a few weeks after ovulation. Their body shape changes - pronounced spine, almost look "skinny" even though they aren't losing any weight, and if you're gently you can hold them up and actually see the outline of the eggs in their bellies, as well as see the position of the eggs as they move down and get nearer to laying. I do NOT palpate gravid females. IMO, palpating is for follicles. Egg walls are too fragile for me to be willing to jab my fingers in her belly just to satisfy my own curiosity. It might be paranoia, but oh well. Most ultrasounds are done to determine follicle size, also, not eggs.

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Thank you :) Yeah, I didn't want to go jabbing around their tummies either. I'm having enough of a hard time trying to palpate follicles on my girl who is building now... I'm worried I'll hurt her or stress her out to the point of putting a wash on the whole thing.... lol And I don't have an ultrasound. He is sending me pics today, so hopefully I'll be able to see SOMETHING from them....?

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Originally Posted by SWFLA

I bought an imported gravid female that layed 5 good eggs, 6 slugs. The 5 eggs may or not be fertile.

I have read from bigger breeders that adults like this that are imported can be difficullt to breed in the future, I think it was three years in a row so far that this one particular imported granite didn't lay fertile eggs.

I bought gravid for the experience, not for making money. Also remember the female could be VERY hard to get to feed. You should have a supply of asf's if she needs it.

And finally, imported will have internal parasites. Plan on at least one vet visit and a round of Panacur.

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That's good info for WC gravids! I imagine that taking them out of their natural habitat they've lived in for their entire lives and putting them into a completely foreign and alien habitat would cause them to have trouble breeding in the future. It makes sense. From what I understand, snakes have to feel secure and comfortable to engage in the whole breeding process, so taking them from a termite mound in the plains of Africa and putting them into a tub with paper towels, etc. and a plastic hide, with all these 'human' noises would make for a shock to the system.

Gravids will definitely cost more then non gravids. W.C. gravids give you the chance of hitting something new from the males side of the gene pool aswell. I just visited Outback last weekend and one way to tell if they are gravid is to grab them high and low and allow their bellies to sag in the air. Females that are carrying eggs will have a very pronounced spine if you do this due to the eggs weighing down their bellies. My sub saharan girl from them should pop here anyday now. Josh was saying that he recommends you keep W.C. on cypress because they will not acclimate very well on paper towels.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Gravids will definitely cost more then non gravids. W.C. gravids give you the chance of hitting something new from the males side of the gene pool aswell. I just visited Outback last weekend and one way to tell if they are gravid is to grab them high and low and allow their bellies to sag in the air. Females that are carrying eggs will have a very pronounced spine if you do this due to the eggs weighing down their bellies. My sub saharan girl from them should pop here anyday now. Josh was saying that he recommends you keep W.C. on cypress because they will not acclimate very well on paper towels.

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This is good to know - thank you!

Here are a few photos of the W.C. gravid "burgundy" girl I just bought. She's pretty miserable and about to blow as far as eggs go so I didn't mess with her too much to take these. Please excuse the photos; my camera is a point and shoot and my skills with it are non-existent. It's hard to capture her color very well with my appalling abilities with a camera but anyway. She's almost a cocoa-colored red with purple highlights throughout. Definitely a unique looking animal and "normal" or not, she's purrrty to me, lol! Here goes:

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9514983b.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...psbffa49b8.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...pse37665f7.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1d1cd9be.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7e589507.jpg

Once she lays and I've completed reading "Photography for Dummies" and hired a professional photographer anyway, I'll post some more shots of her and her offspring, should any of them be viable and go full term. Thanks for looking!

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

Here are a few photos of the W.C. gravid "burgundy" girl I just bought. She's pretty miserable and about to blow as far as eggs go so I didn't mess with her too much to take these. Please excuse the photos; my camera is a point and shoot and my skills with it are non-existent. It's hard to capture her color very well with my appalling abilities with a camera but anyway. She's almost a cocoa-colored red with purple highlights throughout. Definitely a unique looking animal and "normal" or not, she's purrrty to me, lol! Here goes:

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9514983b.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...psbffa49b8.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...pse37665f7.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1d1cd9be.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7e589507.jpg

Once she lays and I've completed reading "Photography for Dummies" and hired a professional photographer anyway, I'll post some more shots of her and her offspring, should any of them be viable and go full term. Thanks for looking!

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She is really pretty! Any idea about when she will lay? I'm excited to see what she produces - be sure to let me know when she lays, and eggs hatch - I can't wait to see! My girl is just getting bigger and bigger every day... I sure wish I knew how to properly palpate! I know I've felt at least 2 or 3!

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Originally Posted by nimblykimbly

She is really pretty! Any idea about when she will lay? I'm excited to see what she produces - be sure to let me know when she lays, and eggs hatch - I can't wait to see! My girl is just getting bigger and bigger every day... I sure wish I knew how to properly palpate! I know I've felt at least 2 or 3!

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Thanks very much! I have no idea on how to tell when she'll go; I don't know if she ovulated when she was shipped over or if she did that in Africa prior to making the trip. That would give a better barometer than what I could with palpating her. I confirmed eggs and that was enough for me, not going to risk breaking one or stressing her any more than necessary but it would be nice to have a ballpark idea as to when she might lay. My incubator is done and the temp has stabilized in it so now it's all up to her and whatever clock she's going off of, lol! I'll be sure to take lots of pics when she lays and here's hoping all of her eggs go full-term. Babies of any kind are always great (especially when they don't cry, lol!) plus I'm looking forward to seeing what her babies look like, morph or not and what she might have bred with in Africa. More than likely a "normal" but regardless, it's pretty cool to consider the possibilities. That's awesome that your girl is coming along like she is; good luck with her and same to you as far as posting pics when she lays and the babies hatch out! :gj:

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

Thanks very much! I have no idea on how to tell when she'll go; I don't know if she ovulated when she was shipped over or if she did that in Africa prior to making the trip. That would give a better barometer than what I could with palpating her. I confirmed eggs and that was enough for me, not going to risk breaking one or stressing her any more than necessary but it would be nice to have a ballpark idea as to when she might lay. My incubator is done and the temp has stabilized in it so now it's all up to her and whatever clock she's going off of, lol! I'll be sure to take lots of pics when she lays and here's hoping all of her eggs go full-term. Babies of any kind are always great (especially when they don't cry, lol!) plus I'm looking forward to seeing what her babies look like, morph or not and what she might have bred with in Africa. More than likely a "normal" but regardless, it's pretty cool to consider the possibilities. That's awesome that your girl is coming along like she is; good luck with her and same to you as far as posting pics when she lays and the babies hatch out! :gj:

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LOL you are right about that! I don't care what kind of babies I get - as long as they don't cry and are healthy! ;) I just can't wait for the experience! You have got to be on pins and needles; I know I am! I got this girl already glowing and hoped and prayed that during transport she wouldn't reabsorb her follicles (I picked her and a few others up, and had to travel 9+ hours with them) and I just wish I KNEW what stage she is in. Every day she just gets bigger and more miserable looking... lol I don't think she has ovy-ed yet.

I have my incubator all set up and running already too! :P I need to get one more thermometer, I think... I have one and the probe is hanging about 1/3 the way down inside and the temp stays right at 88.2... I want a probe for further down. I am trying to incubate at between 87-89. I also want to get a tub set up and test it inside the incubator. I am so paranoid! lol

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Originally Posted by nimblykimbly

LOL you are right about that! I don't care what kind of babies I get - as long as they don't cry and are healthy! ;) I just can't wait for the experience! You have got to be on pins and needles; I know I am! I got this girl already glowing and hoped and prayed that during transport she wouldn't reabsorb her follicles (I picked her and a few others up, and had to travel 9+ hours with them) and I just wish I KNEW what stage she is in. Every day she just gets bigger and more miserable looking... lol I don't think she has ovy-ed yet.

I have my incubator all set up and running already too! :P I need to get one more thermometer, I think... I have one and the probe is hanging about 1/3 the way down inside and the temp stays right at 88.2... I want a probe for further down. I am trying to incubate at between 87-89. I also want to get a tub set up and test it inside the incubator. I am so paranoid! lol

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That's hilarious and absolutely on the healthy babies, minimum crying, please! I'm excited to see the process, start to finish with her and her little ones. Doing my best not to stress it and the incubator was the biggest worry I had but since that's done, now it's just a matter of waiting...which I'm terrible at, lol! That's awesome that you bought yours glowing/hopefully gravid. I don't know how a car trip of that duration would effect her or if it would make any difference or not. I worried about that with this girl, if the flight over from Africa and then from Virgina to my house would have a negative impact on her or not. I'm hoping she's as hardy as they're rumored to be and that it won't have any adverse effects on her or her eggs. That's funny you mention that about the thermometer probe; I have one set up that same way and considered getting another one as well to monitor the temps closer to the bottom of the incubator where the egg box would be located. I also bought and wired a computer fan to hook up if the temps fluctuate too much from top to bottom but so far I haven't needed it.

Tomorrow I'm mixing up the vermiculite and setting up an egg tub to get it warmed up and ready to go so I can make adjustments if I need to. Seems like it never ends and amen to being paranoid, lol! I could stand it if something goes wrong or the eggs were slugs or she doesn't go but if it was something I did that caused me to lose the clutch...I might take up scrapbooking instead and sell my snakes rather than risk losing a clutch again, lol! I was shooting for a range on the temp too, as from what I've read that's more realistic and mirrors natural conditions more closely. I've read (true or not, I don't know)that babies that are incubated with a mild range of temps (2-3 degrees variation) tend to be healthier/more robust out of the egg than ones that are hatched at a constant temp, so long as it's a gradually increase/decrease cycle and not a massive spike or drop, which can lead to deformities and such. This is a first for me as far as trying to hatch any out, so it's been a constant debate of what temps to incubate at, substrate or substrateless incubation method, build an incubator or buy one, etc. My wife and I are expecting our first toward the end of May, so if that's anything like what this is, I'm sunk, lol! I thought this would be a great distraction from worrying about drywalling, painting, picking nursery furniture, OB appointments, childbirthing classes, etc. and instead, I'm a worse wreck now than what I was just thinking about A baby instead of multiples! AC/DC's "Crazy Train" comes to mind quite often, for whatever reason, lmao!

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

That's hilarious and absolutely on the healthy babies, minimum crying, please! I'm excited to see the process, start to finish with her and her little ones. Doing my best not to stress it and the incubator was the biggest worry I had but since that's done, now it's just a matter of waiting...which I'm terrible at, lol! That's awesome that you bought yours glowing/hopefully gravid. I don't know how a car trip of that duration would effect her or if it would make any difference or not. I worried about that with this girl, if the flight over from Africa and then from Virgina to my house would have a negative impact on her or not. I'm hoping she's as hardy as they're rumored to be and that it won't have any adverse effects on her or her eggs. That's funny you mention that about the thermometer probe; I have one set up that same way and considered getting another one as well to monitor the temps closer to the bottom of the incubator where the egg box would be located. I also bought and wired a computer fan to hook up if the temps fluctuate too much from top to bottom but so far I haven't needed it.

Tomorrow I'm mixing up the vermiculite and setting up an egg tub to get it warmed up and ready to go so I can make adjustments if I need to. Seems like it never ends and amen to being paranoid, lol! I could stand it if something goes wrong or the eggs were slugs or she doesn't go but if it was something I did that caused me to lose the clutch...I might take up scrapbooking instead and sell my snakes rather than risk losing a clutch again, lol! I was shooting for a range on the temp too, as from what I've read that's more realistic and mirrors natural conditions more closely. I've read (true or not, I don't know)that babies that are incubated with a mild range of temps (2-3 degrees variation) tend to be healthier/more robust out of the egg than ones that are hatched at a constant temp, so long as it's a gradually increase/decrease cycle and not a massive spike or drop, which can lead to deformities and such. This is a first for me as far as trying to hatch any out, so it's been a constant debate of what temps to incubate at, substrate or substrateless incubation method, build an incubator or buy one, etc. My wife and I are expecting our first toward the end of May, so if that's anything like what this is, I'm sunk, lol! I thought this would be a great distraction from worrying about drywalling, painting, picking nursery furniture, OB appointments, childbirthing classes, etc. and instead, I'm a worse wreck now than what I was just thinking about A baby instead of multiples! AC/DC's "Crazy Train" comes to mind quite often, for whatever reason, lmao!

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Hahaha! This all just cracks me up! Same here! I am horrible at waiting! I'm one of those 'instant gratification' people, so this is really teaching me to be patient and respect waiting. Heck, I worry that I worry the snake checking in on it so much! She's probably like "Leave me alone and let me do my thing, crazy lady!" :P

So far the car trip doesn't seem to have affected her too negatively. We bought a collection, she was the only one who seemed to be baking anything in her oven. But she's continued to show all the good signs of building, and I've continued to pair her with the males. The last couple of times, nothing has happened. They don't even seem interested. So I'm hoping that's a good sign too. I guess we will see! I've heard too many stories of stressed snakes reabsorbing their follicles, so I hope I've kept her happy. Funny how we will go to these lengths to keep a BP pleased, huh?? :P

I was on my way to get vermiculite today! then I realized I didn't have enough time before my monkeys got off the bus, so it'll have to wait until Monday.I'm excited to see how the tubs set up!

You are going to have your hands really full soon! A new baby!! How exciting! Well, for sure it's a shock to the system, but you'll be surprised how quickly you will adjust! :) Babies are great. I have had three of them :P It's a magical and amazing experience. And busy.... and tiresome :P and you know, I did all three of mine naturally and never did a childbirth class.... lol I was always too busy to attend them. Don't forget to BREATHE! but not too much, or you'll hyperventilate! :D

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Originally Posted by nimblykimbly

Hahaha! This all just cracks me up! Same here! I am horrible at waiting! I'm one of those 'instant gratification' people, so this is really teaching me to be patient and respect waiting. Heck, I worry that I worry the snake checking in on it so much! She's probably like "Leave me alone and let me do my thing, crazy lady!" :P

So far the car trip doesn't seem to have affected her too negatively. We bought a collection, she was the only one who seemed to be baking anything in her oven. But she's continued to show all the good signs of building, and I've continued to pair her with the males. The last couple of times, nothing has happened. They don't even seem interested. So I'm hoping that's a good sign too. I guess we will see! I've heard too many stories of stressed snakes reabsorbing their follicles, so I hope I've kept her happy. Funny how we will go to these lengths to keep a BP pleased, huh?? :P

I was on my way to get vermiculite today! then I realized I didn't have enough time before my monkeys got off the bus, so it'll have to wait until Monday.I'm excited to see how the tubs set up!

You are going to have your hands really full soon! A new baby!! How exciting! Well, for sure it's a shock to the system, but you'll be surprised how quickly you will adjust! :) Babies are great. I have had three of them :P It's a magical and amazing experience. And busy.... and tiresome :P and you know, I did all three of mine naturally and never did a childbirth class.... lol I was always too busy to attend them. Don't forget to BREATHE! but not too much, or you'll hyperventilate! :D

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You're AWESOME and hilariously random, lol! That's the nice thing with these animals, they go at their own pace and you can't rush them. It's a nice distraction/hobby from work to mess around with them and tend to them...take a minute and slow things down from stressing stuff and get to enjoy something. I bought this girl because I liked her looks and since she was gravid, I thought why not? Hoping it's a positive and informative experience in starting hatchlings and seeing most of the process of a female being gravid and hopefully delivering. None of mine are up to breeding size yet, hence the whole being patient/waiting aspect to keeping these guys or being kept by them as it sometimes seems, especially when it comes to cleaning tubs and water bowls. That's awesome that you picked up a collection in one fell swoop and possibly have a baker in the bunch on top of it, provided she has buns baking, lol! I'll keep my fingers crossed that she goes for you and is gravid, that would be really cool if you got some little ones in addition to the animals you bought anyway; more bang for the buck, right, plus the experience as a whole. I take it you're going to use a substrate in your egg tubs? I considered setting up two egg tubs if I could split the clutch without damaging any of them. One with vermiculite and other as a substrateless setup. I've read the sticky on here about setting up an egg tub and then found another method that uses water only in the bottom of the tub with no vermiculite added (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/ar...bation-method/). Decisions, decisions, lol!

Thanks for reassuring me about the new addition to my family, lol! I had younger brothers I helped with growing up but no sisters, so this is going to be a steep learning curve, I'm afraid. She's due toward the end of May (the baby is a girl), so I have between now and then to get my will drawn up and purchase additional life insurance for the heart attacks I foresee when she gets her license and begins dating at 35, lmao! I'm not sure what my wife will do, natural birth or not. I think that's where these classes come in, to give us some idea as to what to expect and what her options are in that regard. I don't get a vote and I'm wise enough to know when to shut up, so I just nod politely and smile a lot while holding her hand and carrying her purse in the other, lol!

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

You're AWESOME and hilariously random, lol! That's the nice thing with these animals, they go at their own pace and you can't rush them. It's a nice distraction/hobby from work to mess around with them and tend to them...take a minute and slow things down from stressing stuff and get to enjoy something. I bought this girl because I liked her looks and since she was gravid, I thought why not? Hoping it's a positive and informative experience in starting hatchlings and seeing most of the process of a female being gravid and hopefully delivering. None of mine are up to breeding size yet, hence the whole being patient/waiting aspect to keeping these guys or being kept by them as it sometimes seems, especially when it comes to cleaning tubs and water bowls. That's awesome that you picked up a collection in one fell swoop and possibly have a baker in the bunch on top of it, provided she has buns baking, lol! I'll keep my fingers crossed that she goes for you and is gravid, that would be really cool if you got some little ones in addition to the animals you bought anyway; more bang for the buck, right, plus the experience as a whole. I take it you're going to use a substrate in your egg tubs? I considered setting up two egg tubs if I could split the clutch without damaging any of them. One with vermiculite and other as a substrateless setup. I've read the sticky on here about setting up an egg tub and then found another method that uses water only in the bottom of the tub with no vermiculite added (http://www.worldofballpythons.com/ar...bation-method/). Decisions, decisions, lol!

Thanks for reassuring me about the new addition to my family, lol! I had younger brothers I helped with growing up but no sisters, so this is going to be a steep learning curve, I'm afraid. She's due toward the end of May (the baby is a girl), so I have between now and then to get my will drawn up and purchase additional life insurance for the heart attacks I foresee when she gets her license and begins dating at 35, lmao! I'm not sure what my wife will do, natural birth or not. I think that's where these classes come in, to give us some idea as to what to expect and what her options are in that regard. I don't get a vote and I'm wise enough to know when to shut up, so I just nod politely and smile a lot while holding her hand and carrying her purse in the other, lol!

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Haha, thanks! :P Yes, I can't think of any other animal that I have ever actually found pleasure in cleaning out their dirty bedding and such. I mean, I love my kids, but changing diapers was something that went along with the child-rearing... crazy as it sounds, I actually feel a sense of relaxation cleaning out BP tubs, checking temps, thawing rats, etc.

I am keeping my fingers extra crossed for success with your gravid girl! It's really exciting stuff! As for my collection - I had a few already, but came across someone who was looking to sell their collection. He's actually on this forum, too. :) What he had in his collection was the direction I was looking for anyway, so I did get lucky :) he took really good care of his snakes and they are all healthy! It will be nice if everything pans out with this girl... she's been paired pretty regularly with a Killerbee and a couple of times with a Fire.

Don't worry - you'll do just fine! Your paternal instincts will kick in with your daughter, you'll see! We have two girls and one boy... I'm on the other side of the spectrum - the last two generations with my family have yielded only girls until I had my youngest son. I want ALL these things for him, and to raise him right... but I'm clueless! I only hope I'm doing the right thing! :P

I am also PMing you (I hope you don't mind) as our convo has gotten a little OT, I think :)

Oh and P.S. that in the bold... LOL LOL Well, you've got it!! :D