Pseudomonas Infection

Hello ,

I made this post you cause I don't know what to do anymore.My pythons don't recover.
I bough an adult het piebald female and a classic adult female to a guy. Few days after ,I noticed a lot of saliva in the python mouths, i directly bring the snakes to a vet, we try during two mouths some treatments but nothing worked, we made a bacterio analysis and the result was : pseudomonas sp.

Here's the analysis (in french):
"Analyse(s) Résultat Sign val.norm. Unit Remarques
Matériel 1 : Ecouvillon de la gorge
Bactériologie AA (aérobie & anaérobie)
Examen bactériologique
Culture aérobie Pseudomonas species 1) 1)
(en quantité importante)
Examen bactériologique
Culture anaérobie Aucune bactérie anaérobie stricte détectée
Examen mycologique
Culture pas de croissance de levures ni de moisissures
Explication : + = sensible, (+) = intermédiaire, 0 = résistant; * = résultat déduit. Méthode : mise en évidence
de résistance automatisée (CMI). L'antibiogramme comprend les antibiotiques potentiellement actifs sur le
germe isolé. L'absence de résultat pour un antibiotique dans l'antibiogramme signifie que la substance donnée
est inactive sur cette bactérie. Merci de noter l'information sur les substances phares et les réactions croisées.
Attention, substance à usage restreint L'utilisation d'un antibiotique est sous la responsabilité du vétérinaire
clinicien
Antibiogramme: germe 1)
Ampicilline 0
Amoxicilline 0
Amoxicilline + Acide 0
Céfalexine 0
Céfazoline 0
Céfovecin 0
Ceftiofur 0
Cefquinome 0
Polymyxine B 0
Gentamicine 0
Tétracycline 0
Doxycycline 0
Enrofloxacine 0
Marbofloxacine 0
Pradofloxacine 0
Nitrofurantoine 0
Sulfaméthox./Trim. 0
Chloramphénicol 0
Imipenem 0
Meropeneme 0
Amikacine 0
Tobramycine 0
+ = sensible (+) = intermédiaire 0 = resistant
Appréciation:
1)
Pseudomonas sp : germe de l'environnement et de contamination souvent
isolé dans les prélèvements d'origine animale. Sa pathogénicité chez les
animaux à sang chaud n'est pas clairement définie. Dans de rares cas, il peut
participer à des pathologies de type inflammation du tractus urinaire ou
des muqueuses. Pseudomonas est un agent infectieux important chez les reptiles
P. aeruginosa et P. fluorescens sont en général exclus du groupe
Pseudomonas sp. "


Now it's been 6 months these two pythons are still sick, always a lot of saliva in the mouth but they feed.
I someone already have the same issue?


Best regards

Anybody speak French?

The french doesn't matter, the result is clear.

But with google traduction:
"Analysis (s) Result Sign val.norm. Remarks Unit
Material 1: Swab the throat
Bacteriology AA (aerobic & anaerobic)
bacteriological examination
Pseudomonas species aerobic culture 1) 1)
(in large quantities)
bacteriological examination
No anaerobic culture anaerobic bacterium strict detected
mycological examination
Culture no growth of yeasts or molds
Explanation: + = sensitive (+) = intermediate, 0 = resistant; * = result deduced. Method: Evidence
automated resistance (MIC). The antibiogram includes antibiotics potentially active on
germ isolated. The lack of results for the antibiotic susceptibility means that the substance
is inactive in this bacterium. Thank you note the information on substances headlights and cross-reactions.
Attention substance restricted the use of an antibiotic is the responsibility of the veterinary
clinician
Antibiogram: germ 1)
ampicillin 0
amoxicillin 0
Acid Amoxicillin + 0
cephalexin 0
cefazolin 0
Céfovecin 0
ceftiofur 0
cefquinome 0
Polymyxin B 0
0 gentamicin
tetracycline 0
doxycycline 0
enrofloxacin 0
marbofloxacin 0
pradofloxacin 0
nitrofurantoin 0
Sulfaméthox. / Qtr. 0
chloramphenicol 0
imipenem 0
meropenem 0
amikacin 0
tobramycin 0
+ = Sensitive (+) = 0 = intermediate resistant
appreciation:
1)
Pseudomonas sp: germ contamination of the environment and often
isolated in samples of animal origin. Pathogenicity in
warm-blooded animals is not clearly defined. In rare cases, it may
participate in pathologies like inflammation of the urinary tract or
mucous. Pseudomonas is a significant infectious agent in reptiles
P. P. aeruginosa and fluorescens are generally excluded from the group
Pseudomonas sp.

I can't understand that the result is 'clear' if it is in French, sorry. Still does not give much information on your situation, other than what was found on the culture.

What treatments have you already tried? What specific antibiotics and methods have you used? Oral? Injection? Did you use any combinations of antibiotics?

How has your husbandry been - meaning, what are your temperatures in your snake's habitat? Temperature of the hot-spot, ambient temperature, cool side? Are your animals exposed to any unnecessary stressors that can be removed from their environment? What type of substrate/bedding do you use in their habitats? Humidty levels?

I don't know enough about Pseudomonas and chance of recovery, so maybe somebody more experienced with Pseudomonas in reptiles/snakes can chime in here on whether it is a result of a bigger issue, or a common bacteria taking advantage of a weakened immune system.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../bc/171407.htm might also give you some information.

it sounds like your snakes have a bacterial infection of intermediate sensitivity to the antibacterial drugs....I would need more information about how you house/feed/control temps and humidity for your snakes.

I would also suggest trying a different vet and trying to switch or combine antibacterial drugs. If it is only intermediately sensitive to w/e drug you tried the first time than it means it is also semi resistant. A 2 drug combo is more likely to knock out ALL of the infection.

what are your humidity levels? Temps? what tank/cage are they in? substrates?

The only real input I can give here is that one of my snakes was recently diagnosed with a pseudomonas infection, as well as a bacteria they couldn't identify. My vet prescribed gentamicin injections for a couple of weeks and he's still in treatment but seems to be recovering nicely. He's due for a follow up March 2nd so we'll see for sure then.

Here's the original thread, which I will update as things progress: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=190558

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks guys for your answers.

I saw two vets , the first was bad (no knowledge) , the second is a specialit reptile , a clinic vetenary specialized in reptiles ( well known in my country). He's for me very competent.
I don't know all the drugs He used but the more used (baytril,..). The snakes are stayed two months at the vet so I didn't cure them by myself. It was to avoid contamination at my home.
The snakes was sick before to come at my home, i made the mistake to don't check well the mouth before to buy.
At my home , i have professionnal alu rack with hot spot 33°c , all my snakes are perfectly healthy and i don't think the problem is coming from me.
I rather think , it's a problem at the ex owner home, he didn't respect temp,.., maybe he fed the snakes during low temperature...

For the moment , they continue to feed , medium rats , one time a week. Sometimes they seems to be better and sometimes they have a bit deformed mouth with saliva.
I don't know...what to do . I can try an other vet but it begin to cost expensive (already 400euro!) and who choose.. i already saw the best in my country..

(sorry for my english, i wish you will understand all)

It appears your snake has one of those "superbugs", bacteria that have developed resistance to most of the antibiotics available to us. Baytril (enrofloxacin) is NOT effective against this organism, but may prevent other opportunistic bacteria from causing problems in this sick snake. The only antibiotic tested that is at all effective appears to be acid amoxicillin(clavamox or augmentin, I guess). I don't know if you can give this to a snake, perhaps orally with a feeding tube. Honestly, I would keep these snakes in strict quarrantine for the foreseeable future, with perfect husbandry. I would not introduce these snakes to any other snake, or keep them in the same rack, until you have had atleast one negative culture. These super resistant bacteria are BAD NEWS.

I just took another look at the culture and sensitivity results...it appears that NONE of the antibiotics are effective at any level against this organism. Unless the pythons can recover on their own, I think the prognosis is poor. What did the vet who specialises in reptiles say to you about these lab results?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dav4

It appears your snake has one of those "superbugs", bacteria that have developed resistance to most of the antibiotics available to us. Baytril (enrofloxacin) is NOT effective against this organism, but may prevent other opportunistic bacteria from causing problems in this sick snake. The only antibiotic tested that is at all effective appears to be acid amoxicillin(clavamox or augmentin, I guess). I don't know if you can give this to a snake, perhaps orally with a feeding tube. Honestly, I would keep these snakes in strict quarrantine for the foreseeable future, with perfect husbandry. I would not introduce these snakes to any other snake, or keep them in the same rack, until you have had atleast one negative culture. These super resistant bacteria are BAD NEWS.

---

This is my bet as well. multi drug resistant bacteria is a very very bad thing.

If you look again "0" indicates the organism is sensitive to the drug and + is only an intermediate resistance.
This is no superbug.
It is curable by multiple drugs, the biggest question then becomes, "which drug will cause the least negative side effects for the snake".
Luckily the OP has found a vet better suited to helping with reptilian care.

[QUOTE=massasauga;2021480]

Explanation: + = sensitive (+) = intermediate, 0 = resistant; * = result deduced.
Antibiogram: germ 1)
ampicillin 0
amoxicillin 0
Acid Amoxicillin + 0
cephalexin 0
cefazolin 0
Céfovecin 0
ceftiofur 0
cefquinome 0
Polymyxin B 0
0 gentamicin
tetracycline 0
doxycycline 0
enrofloxacin 0
marbofloxacin 0
pradofloxacin 0
nitrofurantoin 0
Sulfaméthox. / Qtr. 0
chloramphenicol 0
imipenem 0
meropenem 0
amikacin 0
tobramycin 0
QUOTE]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven01

If you look again "0" indicates the organism is sensitive to the drug and + is only an intermediate resistance.
This is no superbug.
It is curable by multiple drugs, the biggest question then becomes, "which drug will cause the least negative side effects for the snake".
Luckily the OP has found a vet better suited to helping with reptilian care.

---

You need to read it again. "+" = sensitive, "(+)" = intermediate, "0" = resistant... nothing but zeros on the sensitivity results. Also, the snake(s) were treated with two months of Baytril BEFORE the culture was done.


I'd still love to know what the specialist had to say about this case.

Hello,

The vet said He doesn't know what antibiotic can work after that result , it's possible to search deeper but it will cost more and as I said 400euro was already a lot of . I thinked about to kill the pythons to protect my collection but as i didn't have contamination (when the snakes was at my home before the vet) ,I keep them and i put the snakes in a separated room (the cave).

Do you think the snake can heal by himself in the future with a kind of bacteria like this?

[QUOTE=dav4;2022837]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by massasauga

Explanation: + = sensitive (+) = intermediate, 0 = resistant; * = result deduced.
Antibiogram: germ 1)
ampicillin 0
amoxicillin 0
Acid Amoxicillin + 0
cephalexin 0
cefazolin 0
Céfovecin 0
ceftiofur 0
cefquinome 0
Polymyxin B 0
0 gentamicin
tetracycline 0
doxycycline 0
enrofloxacin 0
marbofloxacin 0
pradofloxacin 0
nitrofurantoin 0
Sulfaméthox. / Qtr. 0
chloramphenicol 0
imipenem 0
meropenem 0
amikacin 0
tobramycin 0
QUOTE]


You need to read it again. "+" = sensitive, "(+)" = intermediate, "0" = resistant... nothing but zeros on the sensitivity results. Also, the snake(s) were treated with two months of Baytril BEFORE the culture was done.


I'd still love to know what the specialist had to say about this case.

---

You are correct. Admittedly my french bites and I don't trust translation software 100%.

Is this chart for the psuedomonas or the unknown bacteria?

If antibiotics are no longer efective, surgery may be the only alternative. Surgically removing the infected tissue may cure the snake, but this may not even be an option here, and only your vet would know if surgery might help. I suppose it's possible that the snake's immune system could eventually clear the infection, but the infection is still present after 6 months despite the care given by you and the vet. I wish you good luck. Please let us know how this ends, good or bad.

[QUOTE=Raven01;2023154]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dav4

You are correct. Admittedly my french bites and I don't trust translation software 100%.

Is this chart for the psuedomonas or the unknown bacteria?

---

...for the pseudomonas...