Black pastels and cinnamons have gene problems?

There is a thread "wheezing". His pewter wheezes, but the vet could find nothing wrong and over a long period nothing has progressed. Read thread.
I have a black pastel w that problem and another poster also has a black pastel. What gives?
Come be honest.
I've heard both can produce funky supers and some breeders won't produce them. Been told it make crazy mouths.
Mine is a year old and no signs of illness. Same as the others.


Maybe it has a lisp and just can't throw out a good hiss.

I haven't seen any issues with my cinnamons or cinnamon combos.

i only heared about problems with the super-form, black pastel and cinnamon supers frequently have these duckbills, and in rare cases also kinking / spinal problems. So some breeders avoid producing the super-form, while other breeders have a few super black pastels and super cinnys in their collection. And perfectly healthy super cinnys are also possible.


but i have never heared about issues with the ones that have the gene only once.

I've got tons of Cinny stuff and no issues. I don't work with black pastels at all.

We have a 1500 gram black pastel male, a 3000+ gram black pastel female, a 300+ gram albino black pastel, a 2000 gram cinny pewter female and they are all in perfect health and always have been

We are shooting for super black pastels this year, fingers crossed, probably be the only time we do this pairing.

None of our black pastel combos have any issues except a small head wobble on the black bee. And we all know thats a spider issue and not a blk pastel one.

Both my cinnamons are fine. :)

My black pastel gene stuff is fine too.

None of our black pastels our cinnies or super cinny have any health issues

Both of my black pastels "whistle". Neither of them are sick. I assume it's sort of the one-gene version of the duckbilling, that their noses are shaped a little differently. Neither the cinny I hatched this year or her cinny pewter mom whistle.

The duckbilling is the most common. Most people don't seem to think it's a real defect, just a "feature". I've heard of occasional bug-eyes and spinal kinks in the supers. The kinks seem to afflict entire clutches, so it could be incubator issues, or particular genetic lines. I've actually never seen the bug-eyes. The only bug-eye I've ever seen was a BEL.

So I have this friend. This friend has a pewter that wheezes also. It's totally healthy. I think it's completely reasonable to say that since there is a known issue where the super versions die in the egg, hatch with cleft lips, duckbills, etc. that the single gene version may have some kind of minute snout issues that don't affect the overall health of the animal but might occasionally make whistling or other sounds when the animal breathes hard due to stress of handling or feeding.

I know Kevin McCurley doesn't work with Super Cinnamon because 'he has bad luck with duckbilling and lip problems.' Perhaps this issue only affects certain lines? Either way, posting 'my animals are all healthy' isn't really adding value to the thread. It's a known issue... we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist just because we don't have animals exhibiting the problem ourselves.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Both of my black pastels "whistle". Neither of them are sick. I assume it's sort of the one-gene version of the duckbilling, that their noses are shaped a little differently. Neither the cinny I hatched this year or her cinny pewter mom whistle.

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I had a female black pastel that I produced that like that also, you could hear the whistle, from the day she hatched still doing it I am sure. Always ate great, healthy as a horse and I never had any issue with her.

The sire that produced her was fine and I now have 2 black pewters and I have not noticed any whistle from them never did from any other black pewter I produced.

Is it a fluke with that animal? Is it because it is a black pastel? Is it because the nasal cavity is different, is it because she is stressed? who know? I surely do not.

I don't work with super for two reason 1# I don't care for them 2#Higher risk of deformed animals.

I've had several snakes that will start breathing heavily when they get nervous, this is often audible as 'wheezing'. There is nothing physically wrong with them, it's just the snake version of hyperventilating. Once they calm down (usually when I put them back in their cage and they can't see me anymore) no more noise. The snakes that I've had this issue with were all normals. I've got several cinnamon's and a black pastel and none of them make these noises, but they also don't seem to be overly concerned with my presence and remain calm when I'm around.

My friend will definitely be breeding the pewter, but probably won't pair it with any other animal with a cinnamon gene due to the whistling.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Either way, posting 'my animals are all healthy' isn't really adding value to the thread. It's a known issue... we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist just because we don't have animals exhibiting the problem ourselves.

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So, the fact that I probably have a dozen cinnamon combos (plus what I've produced) and they don't have any issues isn't adding value to this thread? There are known issues with the supers but I haven't seen any issues in the base morph or the combos.

My black pastel have a few problems.1) he wants to bite me every chance I get,2) he's always hungry. Other than that nothing he's 100% healthy. I do plan to do a albino black pastel x albino black pastel breeding in the future.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

So, the fact that I probably have a dozen cinnamon combos (plus what I've produced) and they don't have any issues isn't adding value to this thread? There are known issues with the supers but I haven't seen any issues in the base morph or the combos.

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What I meant was, he is asking if people have had experience with issues in the single gene. I don't know what % of the time the single genes or supers have issues, but I'm thinking if everyone responded there would be 99 responses of 'my animals are fine' which might make it difficult to sift out or draw conclusions from the 1 response that says they have experienced some issue.

'No value' was definitely the wrong way to phrase that. It's still statistically valuable... it just doesn't address the known issue the OP is looking for information on.

I wonder if people who have experienced issues with the super form have also noticed their single gene cinnys having problems? This would support it being line-specific, in which case noting that the single genes, combos, or supers not having issues would be more valuable.

I have 2 with black pastel. My female black pastel calico had a long nose and a almost dimpled snout between her nostrils, no whistle. As she has aged her face has smoothed out and looks nice.

As for my onxy boy, his face was and is still a bit of a mess. He has the long face with a pinched duckbill. His lower jaw doesnt always sit right and even, but may have something to do with wide open mouth striking at the glass when Im near. I remember a whistle the first two weeks or so I had him. Doesnt whistle now at all.

I agree that making super blacks and cinnys are a bad idea if you have less than perfect snakes. I am sure that my two above may make for some heartache at hatch time. I will probably not ever breed these guys. He is better mixed with strong genes

This post just helped me out.....My Black Pastel has whistled since the day i got her and never could find anything wrong with her....2 years now...

My male black pastel whistles, I only notice it during handeling or when hes moving around alot. I have had him almost two years. No other issues with him.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've had several snakes that will start breathing heavily when they get nervous, this is often audible as 'wheezing'. There is nothing physically wrong with them, it's just the snake version of hyperventilating. Once they calm down (usually when I put them back in their cage and they can't see me anymore) no more noise. The snakes that I've had this issue with were all normals. I've got several cinnamon's and a black pastel and none of them make these noises, but they also don't seem to be overly concerned with my presence and remain calm when I'm around.

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I agree. My regular pastel female wheezes/whistles when she gets excited but is healthy as a horse and growing like crazy. Whenever she gets worked up you can easily hear it and as soon as she settles down, it goes away.

Any ball python can make that noise, I don't believe it has anything to do with the cinny/black pastel gene at all.

We have several black pastels and a cinny pewter, and we've produced a number of them also, and they don't make any more noise than any other snake.

One of our Pewter Pieds, a super Pewter, and a silver bullet have all had the whistle since hatching. It is very slight but is noticeable when they get a little excited.

No issues with my Black Pastel, other than just looking awesome.

I noticed my pewter whistling the other day.

I gently opened her mouth with a rubber spatula and nothing was amiss. She's a newer addition, not sure when she last shed.

I hadn't heard about the whistling thing until now though I've heard about duck billing. Will keep my eye on this thread.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/20/tavejevy.jpg

I have had no issues with my male Black Pastel whistling or wheezing. He loves his food and is doing fantastic. As far as I've noticed, he doesn't have a "duck bill" either. I'm glad this thread was posted, though, because if ever I heard the whistling/wheezing, I would probably freak out. :D

We have the same "issue" with out 2008 Black Pastel from BHB.
Everything is fine except that he has the whistling from time to time. He's had it for as long as we've owned him.
Seems more noticeable when the humidity goes up, but that might be in my head:)
He's obviously fine though, since he's a 1000 g proven breeder:)
Glad might be the wrong word, but I'm relieved that it's not unheard of in others..
Thanks/Amea

Both of my black pastels are weirdos.

The male, Titus, wheezes constantly. I think he's sick almost every week, but I think it's just his crazy nose. Though, to look at him, he's great by all appearances.

The female, Drusilla, wheezes sometimes, but also soaks like crazy, and her face is a bit duckbilled with bigger eyes. Still beautiful though.

We're actually trying for supers this year. The black snake calls to me. I've got my fingers crossed though. I've heard mixed messages for the pairing in general.