stacking system

Okay, maybe this is just me, but personally but i do not like stacking systems. What kind of life is your snake having in a small box. I mean sure they are warm but they no room to do anything.. and this doesnt just go for snakes, this goes for geckos and beardies as well. If you want to breed then okay, thats fine. But having full growns in there in my personal opinion, isnt okay. If you want a lot of snakes then colonize in a big tank. Like i said, maybe this is just me but i wanted to see what everyone elses opinions were.

This has been touched on before, but Racks are perfect for Ball pythons. They love the tight warm spots. In the wild they spend their time in secure tight spaces by choice. Contrary to what people think large open enclosures with a ton of room to move about will tend to stress bp's out.

There are also all different sizes for racks. A friend of mine breeds cresteds and he made racks that have tall enclosures. I think racks are a great idea and help save space in your house and can be made to properly house about anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have rack systems for most of my BP's, I also have a fairly large custom made enclosure I made far an adult female i have & to tell you the truth the adult very very rarely comes out of her hide. the floor size on the enclosure is approximately 3.5 x 2 ft & she only uses about 1x2ft the only time i ever see her use the whole thing is when she is hunting for her rat. I think as humans we think its cruel to keep them in a small tote, because we like our open spaces, but in the wild they would find a tight space after their meal & lay there until they get hungry again only coming out to warm up.

Large tanks will largely be unused. They will find a secluded hole and stay there. In a tub, we create that secluded hole in optimum, controlled, environments.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

Racks are perfect for most species that are kept in them. If the conditions weren't ideal for the animals you breed, you will have stressed animals and poor breeders. There's no way the big breeders that do this for a living would keep their animals in less than ideal conditions and get where they are at.

The idea that snakes and other reptiles should be kept in large glass enclosures with a bunch of decorations is basically propaganda generated by the pet store trade. It's a great way to turn a $100.00 reptile purchase into a $300.00 purchase in a hurry.

If you can keep your temps and humidity at appropriate levels and have a few reptiles, there's nothing wrong with keeping them in more elaborate setups, but much of the fancy stuff will go largely unused by your pets and these types of enclosures are very expensive and difficult to keep clean. Personally I don't recommend this method to most, and it's impossible for people who keep large collections.

Pythons are not communal by nature, and are stressed when housed together. Also, they do not like to be exposed so large, clear containers also tend to stress them.

Beardies have special needs when it comes to basking, UVB, etc, so I would be interested to see what a rack system looks like for them. Pics?

To be honest some of my snakes that are more "finicky" have hides inside their tubs that are barely large enough for them to coil up in, and that is where they spend 90% of their time.

@ skirtinthedirt the bigger breeders will use rack systems for their beardies they use tubs with more spacing between them for the basking & uvb lamps though. BHB has shown their bearded dragon set up in their videos.

Good to know, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickle

If you want a lot of snakes then colonize in a big tank.

---

I think snakes, especally ball pythons would be stressed in a roomy tank. And they will be even more stressed "colonized". Snakes are solitary species and housing a balll python this way can cause stress since they like small, dark places. I have 2 snakes and they are housed in seperate glass tanks because we do not have many and our house is cold so we need heat from above and below. The sides are blacked out and they arent too big for their size. Also housing multiple snakes together can cause illness to spread and you also cannot monitor feces and whatnot.

Hi,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickle

Okay, maybe this is just me, but personally but i do not like stacking systems. What kind of life is your snake having in a small box. I mean sure they are warm but they no room to do anything.. and this doesnt just go for snakes, this goes for geckos and beardies as well. If you want to breed then okay, thats fine. But having full growns in there in my personal opinion, isnt okay. If you want a lot of snakes then colonize in a big tank. Like i said, maybe this is just me but i wanted to see what everyone elses opinions were.

---

Then don't use them.

You are definitely entitled to have, and share, your opinion - as long as you respect the fact that others have the same right.

For many species colonies in a large enclosure will reduce the animals quality of life rather than enhance it. I have done it in the past and will not be going back to multiple animals in one large enclosure.


dr del

I think the misconception you may have is that we do it for OUR ease of keeping, when in fact it really is done for the animal quality of life.

A couple months ago I got my first rack system and switched all my snakes from glass tanks to the rack. Only one out of the five snakes I had would ever use his entire enclosure (It was one of those zilla 40g wide tanks). All the other ones would stay in their hides. However, my lesser that seemed to ... I suppose "enjoy" his enclosure did have the most natural set up out of all of them. He had two javawood hides & a crap ton of artificial plants along with peat & Sphagnum moss & a stone water bowl. (I was a little nuts over him because he started it all lol) I used to feel that way to. That rack systems were cruel. But It was getting difficult to maintain humidity and the right heat for all of them & for most of them the space was excessive. So I caved and got the rack & I love it. All of them go through perfect sheds every time & the heat and humidity are extremly stable. They seem comfortable, & Harry (my first) still gets his enrichment by getting to go outside in the summer or hang out downstairs with me lol.

So idk to me it the racks are a win win for both owner and snake because it does increase ease of cleaning & care and for the snake it creates stability & security.

But if you have a snake like my Harry then a medium sized showcase cage with crazy amounts of foliage & hides for them to feel secure like they would in the rack would be cool to; for my other snakes it would just be a waste of money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skirtinthedirt

Racks are perfect for most species that are kept in them. If the conditions weren't ideal for the animals you breed, you will have stressed animals and poor breeders. There's no way the big breeders that do this for a living would keep their animals in less than ideal conditions and get where they are at.

The idea that snakes and other reptiles should be kept in large glass enclosures with a bunch of decorations is basically propaganda generated by the pet store trade. It's a great way to turn a $100.00 reptile purchase into a $300.00 purchase in a hurry.

---

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3b955e79.jpg

95% of his time is in the left hide (where he's at in the photo). The other 5% is in the hide on the right. If I knew then what I know now I would have never bought the glass cage and just bought a rack right away......C'MON HARTMAN!!!:taz:

Well do you guys put anything in there with them like.. a hide or.. anything. I dont know. . Maybe i am just being closed off to the idea, i love my snakes and their tank set ups. My little girl is always in her hide but my full grown girl is sooooo active, it would just feel mean to me. I however have never heard that colonizing would stress them out. And with the whole bearded dragon thing, i dont think you can ever have enough space for them.

I have three hides and a water bowl in each

I used hides with a couple of them at the start but since I use newspaper for a substrate they can go under that and have it touch them on all sides ( which makes them feel secure ) without there being any need to adjust anything as they grow.

The main idea is really that the whole rub becomes their "hide" so they can select the temp they want to be without having to feel exposed at any point.

I've never tried a rack with lizards though so can't speak to that.


dr del

I just started using racks with my four girls gotta build a male one and get some more males now ha. I started out thinking you need the big tanks too but came around to the racks after learning about them and I like them lot more, keeps everything nice and stable and is easier to clean.

Look at this in a differant way. Bps dont climb and couldnt care less about having a high ceiling. If you look at the most common size of tank and tubs used if you get rid of the height it only comes down to floor space. The tubs that we use have simular if not more floor space. Tubs just are not as pretty for us to look at but then we dont live in them.

15 gal tank 24 ¼" wide X 12 ½" deep X 12 ¾" high 303 sq in of floor space
25 gal tank 24 ¼" wide X 12 ½" deep X 20 ¾" high 303 sq in of floor space

41 qt tub 34 7/8" wide X 16 5/8" deep X 6 1/8" high 579 sq in of floor space
28 qt tub 23" wide x 16 ¼" deep x 6" high 373 sq in of floor space

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 771subliminal

Look at this in a differant way. Bps dont climb and couldnt care less about having a high ceiling. If you look at the most common size of tank and tubs used if you get rid of the height it only comes down to floor space. The tubs that we use have simular if not more floor space. Tubs just are not as pretty for us to look at but then we dont live in them.

15 gal tank 24 ¼" wide X 12 ½" deep X 12 ¾" high 303 sq in of floor space
25 gal tank 24 ¼" wide X 12 ½" deep X 20 ¾" high 303 sq in of floor space

41 qt tub 34 7/8" wide X 16 5/8" deep X 6 1/8" high 579 sq in of floor space
28 qt tub 23" wide x 16 ¼" deep x 6" high 373 sq in of floor space

---

Wrong, my first bp climb when I gave him branches to do so. Also, skiploader to provided research showing birds being a big part of wild bp diet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

Just because they eat birds doesn't mean they have to climb to do so or that that one specific snake actually climbs a tree every time it's hungry. I am sure it happens a lot and I have seen them climb myself, but I think that was due to moving into a new home and still getting used to it. After they got used to their new homes they would hide in their hides on cool/warm sides and nothing more other than coming to get some water or eat or poop.

I had both of my firsts in tanks. My large female loved her tank but my male who was a semi rescue hated it. He never came out and started having really bad sheds so when i got my rack system he was the first one to go in. He has a hide and newspaper and he spends all of his time under the newspaper under the hide lol he does NOT want to come out or be seen at all. My big female is in the rack system now and she does okay but we'll see if i keep her there for too long she seemed to like her tank and spent a lot of time out and about in there. She never used either of her hides besides laying her head on them she would lay next to them the silly girl. I kept her temps perfect and all she was just an oddball of sorts. I like my rack system since I'm in a small apt and don't have room for five different tanks. Do what you want but I honestly was running out of room and my male is doing much better so in many ways it depends on your situation and reptiles' personalities. :oops:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

Wrong, my first bp climb when I gave him branches to do so. Also, skiploader to provided research showing birds being a big part of wild bp diet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

---

You have to remember every bp is going to be a little different, some think they are corn snakes and some are pet rocks. I would say by and large once bps's get a little wight on them their interest in climbing around branches is nil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skirtinthedirt

Beardies have special needs when it comes to basking, UVB, etc, so I would be interested to see what a rack system looks like for them. Pics?

---

BHB uses open(screened) tops with lights between each rack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5eruXzbKE

Shown at about 0:20.

Whether rack system or display enclosure, both are fine if done correctly. Its just personal preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickle

Okay, maybe this is just me, but personally but i do not like stacking systems. What kind of life is your snake having in a small box. I mean sure they are warm but they no room to do anything.. and this doesnt just go for snakes, this goes for geckos and beardies as well. If you want to breed then okay, thats fine. But having full growns in there in my personal opinion, isnt okay. If you want a lot of snakes then colonize in a big tank. Like i said, maybe this is just me but i wanted to see what everyone elses opinions were.

---

Ball pythons spend 90% of their time in the wild holed up in rodent burrows and termite mounds. Can't imagine any of those spaces are very large. A rack simulates these housing conditions. Big open spaces stress them out if adequate hides and cover are not provided.

Colonizing can be done, but not recommended.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickle

Well do you guys put anything in there with them like.. a hide or.. anything. I dont know. . Maybe i am just being closed off to the idea, i love my snakes and their tank set ups. My little girl is always in her hide but my full grown girl is sooooo active, it would just feel mean to me.

---

Being too active is a sign of stress. Especially if its during the day. A hiding ball is typical a happy ball, which is why they are poor display animals.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Well, maybe once my collection becomes toomuch to handle i will get a rack. Any good sites?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickle

Well, maybe once my collection becomes toomuch to handle i will get a rack. Any good sites?

---

Lol after all that?
http://reptilebasics.com/

There are few good ones people like I built mine it was cheapest way an could decided how I wanted it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

Wrong, my first bp climb when I gave him branches to do so. Also, skiploader to provided research showing birds being a big part of wild bp diet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

---

A bp slithering over a branch in your cage thats a foot or so high doesnt count as climbing. Thats more along the lines of them "steping" over a fallen branch in the wild. They are not found in the tree tops like green tree pythons or boomslangs.

Also birds are caught and killed on the ground all the time not just in the trees.

I keep my snakes in a rack but my girlfriend keeps her normal and spotnose in a 55 gallon tank and they are all over the place at night. During the day, they usually stay in their hides. I advised her not to keep them together but they're her snakes and the ultimate decision goes to her. I do like the rack system but I am surprised that her snakes seem to love the tank.

M

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 771subliminal

A bp slithering over a branch in your cage thats a foot or so high doesnt count as climbing. Thats more along the lines of them "steping" over a fallen branch in the wild. They are not found in the tree tops like green tree pythons or boomslangs.

Also birds are caught and killed on the ground all the time not just in the trees.

---

But see, now after being refuted, your reevaluating your condition. You said climbing, which in the common sense is not being on the ground.

Sure, birds are killed on the ground, but it's a higher chance they're in tree's than on the ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

You have to remember every bp is going to be a little different, some think they are corn snakes and some are pet rocks. I would say by and large once bps's get a little wight on them their interest in climbing around branches is nil.

---

I suppose that's true, but at that point I'm sure the larger ground prey is also more easily eaten and they also have less of a need to go up a tree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp

Just because they eat birds doesn't mean they have to climb to do so or that that one specific snake actually climbs a tree every time it's hungry. I am sure it happens a lot and I have seen them climb myself, but I think that was due to moving into a new home and still getting used to it. After they got used to their new homes they would hide in their hides on cool/warm sides and nothing more other than coming to get some water or eat or poop.

---

I'm not sure what you're going for. You agree that they climb, but then try to refute me by saying they only do it once or so in their life? I'm speaking in the wild, more so than captivity.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

But see, now after being refuted, your reevaluating your condition. You said climbing, which in the common sense is not being on the ground.

Sure, birds are killed on the ground, but it's a higher chance they're in tree's than on the ground.

---

I stand by what I said to start with, bps are not climbing snakes. You claimed that yours climb because you saw it on a little branch in its tank. I say thats not climbing, thats the eqivilent of them steping over something in their way.

Would you say that your dog is a great climber if you saw him jump up on the trunk of a fallen tree? Not likely, nor does a bp slithering up on a little branch a few inches off the bottom of its tank.

If you were to go to africa and look for bps where would you look inside small holes in the ground or up in the trees?

And I'm not sure about the birds in your area but I see thousands of birds in fields, in yards, and parking lots all the time walking on the ground. My neighbors cat brings home dead birds all the time that it caught in a field. The cat is declawed so I can promise you that they were not caught in the trees.

Semantics. I think the argument is that BPs are not arboreal, not that they do not climb. BPs DO climb, they are NOT arboreal.


I can climb trees, but I am not arboreal. I can swim but I am not aquatic.
As already mentioned there are quite a few species of birds who spend the majority of their time on the ground. Presence of wings does not indicate a greater likelihood of being found in trees.
Likewise, Polar bears do not have fins or gills, but they are a marine mammal.

But I'm certain there are lots of other threads one could look up where this has already been discussed, so as not to further detract form the original purpose of this thread.

This seems to be getting out of hand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 771subliminal

I stand by what I said to start with, bps are not climbing snakes. You claimed that yours climb because you saw it on a little branch in its tank. I say thats not climbing, thats the eqivilent of them steping over something in their way.

Would you say that your dog is a great climber if you saw him jump up on the trunk of a fallen tree? Not likely, nor does a bp slithering up on a little branch a few inches off the bottom of its tank.

If you were to go to africa and look for bps where would you look inside small holes in the ground or up in the trees?

And I'm not sure about the birds in your area but I see thousands of birds in fields, in yards, and parking lots all the time walking on the ground. My neighbors cat brings home dead birds all the time that it caught in a field. The cat is declawed so I can promise you that they were not caught in the trees.

---

You're further splitting the hair from your original statement. As mentioned above this post, and perhaps a better explanation of what I mean, is the difference between climbing and being arboreal.

Anyway, your still stuck on captive snakes and your local environment.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/zyhesu7y.jpg
Bobba pretends to be arboreal

Polar bears are a marine animal! I thought they were land mammals :( can I rename them White Sea bears?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlson

Polar bears are a marine animal! I thought they were land mammals :( can I rename them White Sea bears?

---

Yes.
From now on, they are white sea bears.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Yes.
From now on, they are white sea bears.

---

:)

Google agrees with us:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/e2a2eby8.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Google agrees with us:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/e2a2eby8.jpg

---

ABSOLUT-ely.

I used to think the same as you, that it was mean to keep them in such a small enclosure. Butttttt... after my collection has grown from 2 to 17 in a 6 month period I realized that paying 10$ for a light bulb, 15$ for a lamp, 10$ fr a bag of bedding... and the list goes on just isnt affordable and takes up a lot of room. I built my racks myself so i felt more comfortable putting them all in it because I got to pick out what size bins and stuff. I also handle all of my animals on a regular basis. I find my two very cage aggressive snakes have gotten SOOO much better just from being in the rack for even a short time. Its fine if you like terrariums, and i agree that they look nicer, I have a king snake and a boa in terrariums rather then in my racks but its just more convenient to keep them in racks. to each their own

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 771subliminal

I stand by what I said to start with, bps are not climbing snakes. You claimed that yours climb because you saw it on a little branch in its tank. I say thats not climbing, thats the eqivilent of them steping over something in their way.

Would you say that your dog is a great climber if you saw him jump up on the trunk of a fallen tree? Not likely, nor does a bp slithering up on a little branch a few inches off the bottom of its tank.

If you were to go to africa and look for bps where would you look inside small holes in the ground or up in the trees?

And I'm not sure about the birds in your area but I see thousands of birds in fields, in yards, and parking lots all the time walking on the ground. My neighbors cat brings home dead birds all the time that it caught in a field. The cat is declawed so I can promise you that they were not caught in the trees.

---

to add onto that, most snakes that you get from breeders are kept in tubs all their lives until you bring them home and they don't really even get how to climb. its funny to try and watch them, but I agree with you. They don't need a lot of space or stuff to climb.