Can this be done ?????

I was wondering if it's possible to make a super specter super yellow belly?????

yes. Super specter Ivory

Its just like making a super pewter. Which is a Super pastel Super cinnamon. If they both have a super form then it is possible to have double supers in one snake.

Edit: Actually ...do superstripes already act like a super form for the yellow belly and specter?

Edit #2 : I take that back I'm not so sure now. I don't think a super specter/Ivory can happen.

I don't believe it can be done, because they both are on the same locus/allele (can't remember which is the right term)

The way I understood it was there are two spots

nn - normal
yn - yellow belly
yy - ivory
sn - specter
ss - super specter
sy - superstripe

Because these two genes are allelic they are on the same locus. (Think of a ladder, each rung being a locus) so you can only have a gene on each end of that rung. Where as a morph on a different locus would be a different rung, if that makes sense....

DISCLAIMER: I am not 100% on this description, as I'm still learning the genetics as well. Please feel free to tell me my mistakes! This is just how I understand it currently.

OK.....I just wanted to make sure because that's exactly what I've been hearing....thanks guys......But I must say, it does bum me out a little, as I feel like my Specter X Yellow belly would be a waste of a female

Superstripes are hot. Making those should never be considered a waste :) there are hundreds of other genes you can add to that mix, so don't feel discouraged!

Thanks for the words of encouragement....It's just that I really love co-dom mutations over the recessive ones. I guess because the "het" co-dom looks different from a normal, as opposed to recessive hets lmao......Yes, I'm weird like that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I don't believe it can be done, because they both are on the same locus/allele (can't remember which is the right term)

The way I understood it was there are two spots

nn - normal
yn - yellow belly
yy - ivory
sn - specter
ss - super specter
sy - superstripe

---

i think this is absolutely correct. A yellowbelly super specter or a specter super yellowbelly is also impossible.

But there is an advantage: if you breed specter yellowbelly (=superstripe) to superstripe, the odds are: 50% superstripe, 25% super yellowbelly 25% super specter. (for comparison, consider the chaos you get when for example breeding pastave to pastave, where you get everything, normals, pastells, mojaves, super pastells, super mojave, pastave, super pastave, double-super).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I don't believe it can be done, because they both are on the same locus/allele (can't remember which is the right term)

The way I understood it was there are two spots

nn - normal
yn - yellow belly
yy - ivory
sn - specter
ss - super specter
sy - superstripe

Because these two genes are allelic they are on the same locus. (Think of a ladder, each rung being a locus) so you can only have a gene on each end of that rung. Where as a morph on a different locus would be a different rung, if that makes sense....

DISCLAIMER: I am not 100% on this description, as I'm still learning the genetics as well. Please feel free to tell me my mistakes! This is just how I understand it currently.

---

I've seen a number of web sites that say there is a gene on each end of a "rung". That is wrong.

Two genes are alleles because they are at the same locus (location in the DNA in the chromosomes). It takes hundreds or thousands of "rungs" in a DNA ladder to make a gene, and each DNA "ladder" contains millions of "rungs". The sequence of "rungs" determines the gene's makeup. And this is a pretty simplistic description.

Chromosomes come in pairs -- 23 pairs in humans, 18 in boa constrictors, and (I think) 18 in ball pythons. There is one DNA "ladder" in each chromosome of a chromosome pair. The corresponding locations in the two chromosomes of a chromosome pair are the same locus. We say there is one locus with two alleles, but it must be understood that the two alleles are in separate chromosomes.

The genes for two different traits are in the DNA "ladders" in different chromosome pairs. Or they are different series of "rungs" in different locations in the same chromosome pair.

A sperm or egg gets one chromosome from each parental chromosome pair. When a sperm and egg fuse, the chromosome pairs are reestablished, which also reestablishes all the gene pairs.

A pair of chromosomes:
-----a----B---------- = the DNA ladder in one chromosome.
-----a----b---------- = the DNA ladder in the other chromosome. Each - stands for a gene. The a and b genes are different genes in different loci. The B and b genes are alleles.

By the way, if you see an X-shaped structure in a cell's picture, it is not a chromosome pair. It is a single chromosome that is dividing to become two rod-shaped chromosomes.

Hope this helps. A genetics text will have a more detailed explanation.

Nope can't be done..it's like trying to produce a super Mojo super Lesser..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paulh

I've seen a number of web sites that say there is a gene on each end of a "rung". That is wrong.

Two genes are alleles because they are at the same locus (location in the DNA in the chromosomes). It takes hundreds or thousands of "rungs" in a DNA ladder to make a gene, and each DNA "ladder" contains millions of "rungs". The sequence of "rungs" determines the gene's makeup. And this is a pretty simplistic description.

Chromosomes come in pairs -- 23 pairs in humans, 18 in boa constrictors, and (I think) 18 in ball pythons. There is one DNA "ladder" in each chromosome of a chromosome pair. The corresponding locations in the two chromosomes of a chromosome pair are the same locus. We say there is one locus with two alleles, but it must be understood that the two alleles are in separate chromosomes.

The genes for two different traits are in the DNA "ladders" in different chromosome pairs. Or they are different series of "rungs" in different locations in the same chromosome pair.

A sperm or egg gets one chromosome from each parental chromosome pair. When a sperm and egg fuse, the chromosome pairs are reestablished, which also reestablishes all the gene pairs.

A pair of chromosomes:
-----a----B---------- = the DNA ladder in one chromosome.
-----a----b---------- = the DNA ladder in the other chromosome. Each - stands for a gene. The a and b genes are different genes in different loci. The B and b genes are alleles.

By the way, if you see an X-shaped structure in a cell's picture, it is not a chromosome pair. It is a single chromosome that is dividing to become two rod-shaped chromosomes.

Hope this helps. A genetics text will have a more detailed explanation.

---

Ok, so my genetics vocab was off, correct? As in, If you picture it as a ladder (Not saying the DNA ladder) a ladder as in a visual reference for comparing two Chromosomes. That two chromosomes "match up" if they are allelic. There are at the same locus/rung (Location on the dna strand) and therefore create the "acts like super/ allelic mutation" that we call say, a vanilla cream/superstripe etc.

In other words, aside from the actual breakdown of the DNA strand = ladder, and the use of the word "gene", I got the concept right? That the two chromosomes are allelic because they are on the same locus in the DNA strand, and therefore would not be able to have all four of those allelic chromosomes (super specter ivory) in a single snakes genetic make up?

I'm just trying to wrap my brain around all the vocabulary, while still keeping it simple enough that people will read it without their eyes glazing over lol. Thanks a bunch for the help Paul, it is much appreciated!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by supertiger retics

OK.....I just wanted to make sure because that's exactly what I've been hearing....thanks guys......But I must say, it does bum me out a little, as I feel like my Specter X Yellow belly would be a waste of a female

---

Making superstripes a waste of a female?
Certainly NOT :D

I know....But what I meant by a waste of a female is, to me yellow bellies look a lot better than a specter. And I can't for the life of me understand why specters cost more. And a super specter looks just like a super stripe, and I think the ivory looks a lot better than both......IMO

ideal would be to have the 2-gene versions. if you have ivory females and then superstripe males or maybe even a super specter male, you can decide each season if you want to produce lots of ivory or lots of superstripes.


super stripe + ivory will lead to 50% superstripe 50% ivory. thats nice odds. if both parents each have 2 of these genes, all offspring will also have exactly 2 of these genes.

Gravel can also be added to the mix, appears to be in the same gene complex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseyReps

In other words, aside from the actual breakdown of the DNA strand = ladder, and the use of the word "gene", I got the concept right? That the two chromosomes are allelic because they are on the same locus in the DNA strand, and therefore would not be able to have all four of those allelic chromosomes (super specter ivory) in a single snakes genetic make up?

---

Words need work. A gene is a portion of a DNA molecule. A gene codes for a trait like albino or pied or ivory. The DNA molecule is inside a chromosome. With the proper techniques, you can see a chromosome through a light microscope. The DNA is too small to see.

Concept is correct. Two genes are allelic because they are on the same locus. There are two genes per locus in a single animal. You cannot put both super specter and ivory into a single snake's genetic make up.