Building a rack for living room. Another temp question.

I definitely want another snake and I would like to try breeding in a year or two possibly. So I would like to have a rack but I can't have a room dedicated to reptiles because of space.

This is a long shot but if I were to build a rack that had 5-6 tubs and enclosed on three sides with 3/4" ply wood (sealed of course). Are ambient temps still going to give me problems when the room temps are between 68-70?

I was thinking of even putting a hinged door with a couple vents. For the front to keep as much heat in as possible but still let some fresh air in.

I realize this may not be possible or more hassle and if that is the case I will just pick up some stackable PCVX cages.

Any discussion and especially experience is very welcome.

Looking at closed rack designs. I think 3/4" plywood will hold enough heat in and I may not need a door. My living rooms lowest temp was 65. That will be better next winter though because I found an air vent or heat that wasn't hooked up. We just moved in, so it has been a busy couple months.

My setup sounds the same as your looking for. I have my snakes in my front room in racks i made myself. i used 3/4 inch birch ply enclosed all 3 sides. i setup the tubs in there longways and use 11" flexwatt on 1 and the new 12" heat tape from reptile basics on the other. i have em both setup with back heat and my snakes are happy and healthy. I do have to keep the thermostats at 96 to get appropriate temps. so i'm sure it's a little more expensive on the electric bill but it works out perfect for me.

I have a rack with a door on the front made from plywood.
It's designed to blend in with my furniture.
I use 11 inch flexwatt belly heat cut into 6 inch pieces.

My winter temps around the temps you are describing.
I close the door at night to retain heat. It works great. It's much warmer in the rack than the room temp when I open it in the morning.

In the summer, I leave the door open 24/7.

When using back heat in your rack is it generally one strip down inside the back wall of the rack? I assume it gives you an 88+ degree hot and 78+ degree cool sides of the tub. Sounds much easier than belly heat. I never considered putting a door on the front. I bet that does wonders for ambient air temp.

Thanks for the feedback! I was planning in buying two PVC cages but for the expense I could try breeding and save space. I would like to try it for a little project for my daughter and I.

I could put adjustable vents on the front and I can lock it to make sure I can let more heat out during the summer.

Yes backheat is just one strip down the back wall.

I am wondering what will heat inside the tubs better bottom heat or back heat. I was thinking of using bottom heat and using the same size of flexwat in every shelf. I think I would have to make grooves in the shelves for the wires. Does the tubs rubbing on the flexwatt wear it out fast?

Also what size of tub do I need for an adult female? I want to make sure it is big enough for any ball python. I will work out my plan for smaller tubs later.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGuy

When using back heat in your rack is it generally one strip down inside the back wall of the rack? I assume it gives you an 88+ degree hot and 78+ degree cool sides of the tub. Sounds much easier than belly heat. I never considered putting a door on the front. I bet that does wonders for ambient air temp.

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Back heat is one strip of flexwatt down the back. It heats up the air to create a heat gradient compared to belly heat, which creates a hot spot.
Back heat is only easier if your ambient temps are around 75-80. Since it's heating up the air, the actual flexwatt is hotter than if you were doing belly heat.
It's not effective if your room temps are low.

I used back heat for a while. I loved it, but the flexwatt had to maintain 120 degrees in order to get a 90 degree hot side and 80 cool side in the tub.My room temp was 70-75. Flexwatt isn't designed to safely run over 100-105 degrees, so I wasn't comfortable with that hazard. I switched the belly heat, and the flexwatt runs at 98 degrees to achieve a 90 degree hot spot and 80 cool side.

I only have the door to maintain winter temps and to keep unwanted eyes out (maintenance - I live in an Apartment). And I also have friends who have phobia of snakes. So I just close the door when people come over.
The only issue I have with the door is that the snakes are in darkness. I like to allow them some natural light, which is why I tend to just close it at night (where the temps are the coldest anyway).

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Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

I am wondering what will heat inside the tubs better bottom heat or back heat. I was thinking of using bottom heat and using the same size of flexwat in every shelf. I think I would have to make grooves in the shelves for the wires. Does the tubs rubbing on the flexwatt wear it out fast?

Also what size of tub do I need for an adult female? I want to make sure it is big enough for any ball python. I will work out my plan for smaller tubs later.

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It depends on your ambient room temps.
Back heat is easier if you can maintain room temps high enough. If your house is cooler, belly heat is more effective and safer.
You don't need to make grooves in the shelf for wires. You can just tape it down using foil tape.
The tubs do rub on the flexwatt, but it should be good for a few years before you replace it. The foil tape covers the edges of the flexwatt, protecting it from too much wear.

Hatchling - 6 qt tubs
500 grams or less - 15 qt tubs
500 grams or more - 28-32 qt tubs
Snakes under 2000 grams - 28 or 32 qt tubs.
Snakes and big girls above 2000 grams - 41 qt tubs.

That is awesome! I think I will be able to keep the room around 70 all year maybe falling to 68. Belly heat it is. I think the front door will be framed with a large acrylic window. That way light gets in and also if I need vents that is easy to work with. I also want to keep them out reach of kids as some family that visit have little ones so I want them locked just in case. I not building this one to go as affordable as possible because I want it to be a price of furniture in the living room and hold a good handful of snakes. It will be on casters because will be using 3/4" plywood and of course it will be sealed appropriately.

I am a little worried about the ambient holding at 80 but that is why I draw on the experience of all of you. Thanks so much!


Side note:
I thought I would only have one snake and of course that has quickly changed. I think I will incorporate a couple different sized tubs so I can dabble in breeding. I don't want to make that. A business, more of a project for my daughter and I to do in the next year or two. I will probably just buy incubator when the time comes. I guess the breaded was right I did end up getting addicted.

Well now should I use all on size tub or can I use two or three different sizes?

My original thought was to have 2-3 41 qt then 2-3 28qt maybe even add in a 4-6 6qt. My other thought was just make them all 41 qt and use hides for smaller snakes. If I bread I will build a hatchling rack beforehand.

My goal is to keep a few snakes with limited amount of space and try breeding once or even if I do it every year it will only be a clutch or two. Where I love there are no breeders close by that I have found. I won't have a problem selling off the ones we don't wish to keep as pets. Any thoughts?

Well I just stumbled upon a thread that had dividers in 32 qt tubs. I think that is the way I will go. 2-3 41 qt tubs and 3 28qt tubs with removable dividers for the first year of breeding.

If anyone knows of a divider system that works please comments. Pics would be great.

I was thinking of using holes and zip ties to fasten and pice of melamine in place. I can't think of a better system yet.

Anyone else have racks in regular temp rooms around 70f? I am having a hard time thinking everyone has a spare room for reptiles though that would be fantastic it just isn't possible for me.

Any other experiences with racks in standard room please chime in. I have heard from a few people that say it can work. I have heard from a few that say I shouldn't consider a rack in my living room. More feedback would definitely help.

Thanks to all that have helped as usual great forum for help both I. Threads and pm's.

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Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

Anyone else have racks in regular temp rooms around 70f? I am having a hard time thinking everyone has a spare room for reptiles though that would be fantastic it just isn't possible for me.

Any other experiences with racks in standard room please chime in. I have heard from a few people that say it can work. I have heard from a few that say I shouldn't consider a rack in my living room. More feedback would definitely help.

Thanks to all that have helped as usual great forum for help both I. Threads and pm's.

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It can work. If you have an enclosed rack (walls on the back and sides), it will insulate a lot better than a stand alone tub or open rack system (i.e. RBI economy rack style). And like I mentioned in my previous post, belly heat will be more efficient than back heat with that type of temp, which is what I have.

Just to add a thought, perhaps rather than a acrylic front a cloth curtain may work, as well. It should hold a fair bit of heat and still allow good ventilation you only need 7-10º so it isn't that extreme.

My conditions are much cooler than your so I can't comment on back heat it doesn't work for me, too cool, I can't even hold 90º on the nearest wall.

Thanks again everyone!

I posted on a different forum (mistake) and I just caught a bunch of crap basically telling me I was going give my BP RI by using a rack in a non reptile room. It isn't that I wasn't open to criticism, it was just basically treating me like I was retarded for even considering it. It shook my confidence. I love Internet tough guys cause they would speak to me like that in real life I guarantee it. Sorry just had to vent a little.

Everyone is so much friendlier and helpful on this forum which is why I read it so much. I have more confidence I can make this work. I may still play around with an acrylic door or maybe even a tight screen used for vents for security reasons. I have little nieces and nephews and although they are good I just wouldn't want them bit burned or more likely accidentally hurt a snake. I have some more planning to do now. At least I can make room to feed my addiction.

The solid door also could be lockable. In my region it is a by-law that 'secure' enclosures need to be maintained but it never defines 'secure' I figure a lock is secure no matter the def.

I don't keep a rack in a heated reptile room (reptile room yes, central heating no). That is silly, it can be done, it just isn't easy. It has more ins and outs to it and requires more mucking about but that does not mean it can't be done. I really object to the blanket statement especially in husbandry it is no methods that are so universal that it always works or never works.

I am just going to keep tossing notions out there perhaps something will spark a different idea for you. I have tossed around the idea of a water heating system a reservoir of some sort aquarium heater and small pump with tubing. I have never tried this but the though is solid no reason why it would not work. Again just a thought.

Kitedemon, you and serpant merchant were a huge help when I converted my yeild Beardie cage for my first and what I thought would be my only ball. LOL!
It worked out perfectly! Now that cage will be passd on to my little cousin this summer. The more. I think about it and monitor my room temps the more I think it will work just fine. I think the doors may have to be there because that is where the long side of the tub is but the doors won't be air tight and I will have some vents on the doors and maybe even the back if needed. I will probably build it first and see how temps etc are and then install vents slowly. Lather rinse repeat until it works out. Who knows, the front doors may have really large vents. I don't think it will be too difficult to raise ambients up 8-10f. I actually think the large PVC enclosures I was thinking about would have been slightly more challenging because it is a much larger volume of air.

BTW I think the water heating system is a great idea! The only downfall (like liquid cooling for computers) is the possible leak factor but with careful installation I think it would be a great heat source and really efficient. Especially if you use a rad of some sort you could cover the whole back of a rack with a nice gentle heat.

The deep blue LED rope light or light strips may be another way to help the ambients. Also it could create a nice look. I use it in my current setup and it is always warm. That little bit of heat would add up in a small space.

Always a pleasure chatting about design. I have poured through old threads looking for similar situations. I think I over think things before I start building but I haven had any failures yet (knock on wood).

Thanks again.

I will post a build log when I start with posted temp results. I wasn't the first with this situation and I won't be the last.

Well I wonder if I am over thinking this a little. Sometimes the best solution is the one right in front of your face. The tradition DIY rack with tubs sliding in lengthwise, will probably hold the heat way better than width wise. That may negate the need for a door at all. No big long exposed side. I will keep it off the floor with locking casters and hide some insulation on the bottom. Just to keep the drafts away.

For security I think a simple bar and a lock (watch some Ralph Davis vids on you tube).

If I need to I can still attach a door with appropriate ventilation if need be.

Originally I didn't want the cabinet so deep. But to do what I wanted would be cost prohibitive. It was also going to be extremely heavy with a bottom cabinet and the doors and all. I think the traditional deep design is around for good reasons.

Thanks for helping me through the thought process guys. I have a tendency to make things too complex but luckily I never rush into anything. I'll keep you posted when I start the build.

I just wanted I share my rack build with you.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189583

It was a bit much to get a helix but I figured why not I'd end up buying one eventually. But I had a lot of fun building it, it's easy to regulate, it takes up almost no room in my living room. AND :D it can hold 8 small or med sized balls or 4 adults! Or anything in-between.

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/...ps28b56f45.jpg
Only cost me $35 to get groves cut for the flexwatt
Anyways sorry to jabber on I hope whatever you do goes well for you!! :)

I am settled on plans now. I am going to get a router and recess the heat tape like you have. I just don't like the idea of tubs rubbing the heat tape.

I don't like fixing problems I can avoid by putting in a little extra thought and work up front.

Jim,
You might take a peek at Baltic Birch ply. It is a funny size (60x60 in) But far better (stable and strength) than any other ply I have works with (ignoring marine grade mahogany) I don't think it is much more than regular ply (I pay wholesale on it so I can't say for sure)

http://images59.fotki.com/v111/photo...icbirch-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

That looks really good! I didn't see any here but I am checking out some other lumber yards because I have a funny feeling Home Depot is a little overpriced for the quality. I had a hard time finding 3/4" stock that wasn't warped.

If I can't find decent plywood I going to look into finding black melamine. If I go with melamine I will be finishing the edges of course (i want it to look good) and siliconing the seams. I don't like the weight if it or all the glue but the melamine veneer is great for cleaning. Just want to lock away the cores against humidity and out gassing. I really hate the extra weight. PVC will be too costly though (of I could even find it here)

I hope to find some decent plywood. I used Minwax water based (oil modified) sealant on my current cage and it stands up pretty darn good.

I like that Baltic birch. Thanks!

Check out peacock lumber.

http://www.peacocklumber.ca/ash-maple.aspx

I believe they are in oshawa.

A bit pricey but I am unsure of retail pricing. It is worth the extra seriously good plywood and super stable. It is way stronger than standard fir so you may depending on the design be able to use 9mm or even 6mm.

Thanks! I just realized I forgot to update my profile. I have moved up to Timmins ON. We moved just before Xmas.

There I just updated it LOL.

Well I have shopped around and although I could make a great rack with y wood it is going to be even more costly than I anticipated. I am going to bend to the norm and white melamine it is. I could order black but at dour the cost! Plus it will take a whe to come in. I decided if I was going to spend $400 on a rack (plywood) then I would order a PVC rack. I may end up with one down the road but for now cheap wins. It rarely does with me but it frees up extra money for additional snakes, hatchling rack, incubator. There is a lot I still need so cheap racks to start. I think the. I will m is what I want in my next setup. I am going to make it a very clean looking setup and may incorporate a door vented well but secure. I will also be siliconing all seams and the back will be removable.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I have to be smart about this and I can't justify big money on home made when a good PVC rack would be a better choice for that price range.

This will be my first time working with melamine. I hope keeping it relatiy small it will keep its strength. God I hate white but I have doubling money for black even more.

If you don't like the white just rough up the surface with some sandpaper and paint it.

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Originally Posted by dillan2020

If you don't like the white just rough up the surface with some sandpaper and paint it.

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I didn't think you could paint melamine unless you use melamine paint which every store here is telling me they have discontinued for some reason.

I would have to leave the inside white but that may be an idea. I will look into painting it.

Thanks.