Swollen face? Help!

Was just cleaning everyone and checked on Pseudo Clown and his face is... puffy? His body feels sort of edematous (squishy, fluidy) too. His whole face and head look swollen, especially on the right side. I only got some crappy cell pics.

Everyone else is fine. I'm going to call in to work tomorrow and pray my vet will get me in. Does anyone have any ideas? Ever seen anything like this? He was fine until now...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/08/e3uzuqy8.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/08/7ejymy4e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/08/yqamyred.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/08/5ary9utu.jpg

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His lower jaw looks really swollen. :/

Oh no! Poor baby :( perhaps an abscess or tooth issue? Vet is definitely a priority. :( :(

He's going first appt I can get. Thank heavens for Care Credit. Now I need to figure out what to tell my work :/

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When did he eat? Any way you could open his mouth and see if anything is stuck in there?

I will pray for him.
Good luck,
Nichole

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Originally Posted by mebigbadbrat

When did he eat? Any way you could open his mouth and see if anything is stuck in there?

I will pray for him.
Good luck,
Nichole

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I should've mentioned that. He last ate Friday. He was fine until today. I thought his face looked slightly odd last night but he seemed fine when I picked him up to look at him.

Tried looking in his mouth and everything appears normal. What's weirder, after I looked in his mouth, he looks almost normal like the swelling went down. It's so strange.

Thanks.

I left a message for the vet. Now to text my boss. I'm scared of that part :/

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I've only seen two reasons for this type of swelling in a snake. Both were on other forums and pretty sure they were both pythons of some type. One was due to a rescued snake coming in with almost every bone broken as fluid will surround a break naturally. As this is your baby, I would count that one out.

The second was a less known symptom of an RI. The treatment was to up the temps to around 95, take away the water dish, and treat with antibiotics. The theory was that the RI causes water retention and by removing the water dish and upping the temps, the snake 'sweats' out the extra. I realize snakes don't sweat but it does get the amount of water down in the body to safer levels because of the heat/lack of drinking water. Bloating and swelling like that occur with some RI's so if you're vet seems completely baffled, let them know that. A culture should provide some insight as to what's going on so the antibiotics can be specifically chosen for the strain.

I'll see if I can find the forums I read them on as it's been a few years since I saw them.

Edit: Just like with human water retention, you can massage the areas to move the water through the system, however, with so much, I wouldn't recommend that as it can shock his system for so much fluid to enter the bloodstream as right now, it's in the tissue. That may be why handling his head caused the swelling to go down in that area.

Does he seem to be having any issues breathing? I would think water retention as human get really swollen like balloons, but I am not sure about snakes. I don't know if I would try moving up the heat to see if that was the reason or leave him alone for the night.

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Originally Posted by Dracoluna

I've only seen two reasons for this type of swelling in a snake. Both were on other forums and pretty sure they were both pythons of some type. One was due to a rescued snake coming in with almost every bone broken as fluid will surround a break naturally. As this is your baby, I would count that one out.

The second was a less known symptom of an RI. The treatment was to up the temps to around 95, take away the water dish, and treat with antibiotics. The theory was that the RI causes water retention and by removing the water dish and upping the temps, the snake 'sweats' out the extra. I realize snakes don't sweat but it does get the amount of water down in the body to safer levels because of the heat/lack of drinking water. Bloating and swelling like that occur with some RI's so if you're vet seems completely baffled, let them know that. A culture should provide some insight as to what's going on so the antibiotics can be specifically chosen for the strain.

I'll see if I can find the forums I read them on as it's been a few years since I saw them.

Edit: Just like with human water retention, you can massage the areas to move the water through the system, however, with so much, I wouldn't recommend that as it can shock his system for so much fluid to enter the bloodstream as right now, it's in the tissue. That may be why handling his head caused the swelling to go down in that area.

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Thanks.
The RI seems the most likely. His mouth appeared *maybe* slightly mucusy, not what I would expect in an RI but possibly more than normal, though it could've been me holding his head causing his saliva to be more visible, it didn't look too abnormal. I'd think that was the most likely. There's no way he could've gotten broken bones.


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I agree with the idea that he could have an abscess or an infected tooth. Hopefully your vet can get you in tomorrow. As for your boss, I don't know what to tell you. Just let him know you need to take a pet to vet clinic and that's it's an emergency. Truth is always best.

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Thanks.
The RI seems the most likely. His mouth appeared *maybe* slightly mucusy, not what I would expect in an RI but possibly more than normal, though it could've been me holding his head causing his saliva to be more visible, it didn't look too abnormal. I'd think that was the most likely. There's no way he could've gotten broken bones.


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An abscessed tooth is possible but if the swelling/water retention extends down the entire body, I doubt that's the cause. It wouldn't spread like that so quickly. For an abscess to get to that point, it would already have caused sepsis.

From what I remember, there wasn't a ton of mucus in the other cases I read about (a whole 2 of them) but when cultures were done, there was a definite RI. It's in the way the body reacts to the bacteria and instead of forming the classic symptoms of wheezing, bubbling, mucus, etc., the body swells as they retain water and there might be a little bit of mucus or none at all. Either way, hope your vet can get him in tomorrow and get this sorted out. Doesn't look comfy at all... :(

That's why I was thinking the RI sounded more likely, the full body swelling. I haven't heard any wheezing or whistling. My vet has been great at squeezing in emergencies before and they've seen this snake before when I first got him.

I told my boss my dog's face was swollen. I worry they wouldn't care as much if I said my snake unfortunately. I'll let you guys know what I find out.

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What do u feed your snake on ?? Any possibility of substrate getting stuck in its mouth?? Also if u see your vet ask if they have ceftazadine (fortaz) it's an injection every 3 days for 10 injections works really well if it's a RI or mouth rott ... Keep us posted

With a bacterial RI you want to jack both humidity and temps, lowering the humidity will make it worse.

95 hot spot and water bowl over the heat source works real well.

Everyone is on newspaper so I don't think that could be related.

I'm waiting at the vet now so I'll have them culture for RI. It's weird, his face isn't nearly as swollen this morning, if at all, but his body still seems kind of squishy. I'm greeting him thoroughly checked no matter what cuz that was weird and scary.

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My first thought would be some sort of tooth issue. Another thought, is he due to shed? I remember reading a thread, I believe it was a GTP though. Super swollen puffy face. Day or two go by, back to normal, then shed. Good luck, I hope he's ok. Keep us updated please.

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The vet thinks RI is most likely, he had a fair bit of mucus and nothing else seemed abnormal. They did a trachea swab and they're culturing it, we should know by Wed. Til then I'll just keep him separate in a qt tub and warm. He IS getting ready to shed but I'd much rather be safe than sorry since cultures take time and I hate kicking myself later. Although that vet visit was financially ouchy. :( I DO love my vet though, he was telling me about how he once got chased around a room by a cobra lol.

dealing with one with the same problem. Mine was a scratch from a rat in the roof of the mouth..Mine is on antibiotics and super sterile tubs. I've only seen this one other time and it made a full recovery. This time seems to be a little harder to get over it.

There does look like something is a miss. I hope the best for you and your snake!

I had a similar infection show up, but wasnt RI, was from biting bedding. Antibiotics and cage cleaning is a good thing (and don't forget to change out the water bowl), but if you start seeing any recurrence be sure to ask the vet to check for something more. In my case it was a battle with a couple separate rounds of antibiotics and a mouth cleanse.... but the snake is good now. Did your vet suggest any sort of sterilizing/cleansing rinse? It wouldn't help with a RI, but if were a tooth abscess or other physical wound, it could help. Just a thought since it doesn't sound like it is 100% certain to be a RI.
BTW, the culture swabs and xrays showed nothing on mine even though there was a definite problem.
Best of luck to you and your snake!

i facebooked u, i just had a fire female that this happened to

My first suspicion would also be a abscess or infection. Is there inflammation or redness inside the mouth? Any discharge or trouble breathing? Vet visit definitely in order. I have never seen that as a sign as RI but not out of the question!

Good luck! I will keep your adorable little guy in my thoughts for a quick recovery!

So far the vet just told me to watch him and call if he seems any worse. His face is still a little swollen but not nearly as bad. His body is still pretty swollen. Nothing seemed red or abnormal at all aside from some excess mucus/saliva.

For now he advised me to keep him clean and warm and not feed him until we know what we're dealing with. He's also in a qt tub away from the rest of the collection.

Thanks everyone!

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One of mine just got over her r.i. I had to give her antibiotics orally which sucked because she wasn't liking that at all...

Glad to hear the swelling on the head has gone down. Hopefully the cultures come back soon and you know what you're dealing with.

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Originally Posted by CushtaMinge89

One of mine just got over her r.i. I had to give her antibiotics orally which sucked because she wasn't liking that at all...

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Yea, I've done oral meds before. They aren't overly fond of them, are they lol?

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Originally Posted by Dracoluna

Glad to hear the swelling on the head has gone down. Hopefully the cultures come back soon and you know what you're dealing with.

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Me too! Yep. Now the waiting game.

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So the vet called a bit ago and the results of the culture were pseudomonas and a gram negative bacteria they couldn't identify. They did susceptibility tests and found a drug that seems efficient at killing both. I can't remember the name of the drug but I'll have it tomorrow. We'll wait and see.

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Yay. At least they know what you are up against, and how to treat it. Hope he's good as new soon!

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Yep, weird that they couldn't identify they one but I trust my vet to get things sorted out. Me too!

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Huh. Interesting.

Hope the little guy is doing better. Is the medicine helping with the swelling by any chance?

Glad your snake has been to the vet and it seems like things are sorting themselves out!

I just thought I'd share some pics of some facial swelling one of my snakes experienced. Same situation as you, it came on pretty fast. One day I had her out to show my friend and I kind of thought to myself "hmmm her eyes look kind of beady and small today" but didn't think much of it. Next day she looked like this:

http://squamishserpents.ca/wp-conten...4-2011-002.jpg

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http://squamishserpents.ca/wp-conten...4-2011-009.jpg

http://squamishserpents.ca/wp-conten...011-003_01.jpg

The vet found no RI but said her inner upper-jaw looked irritated. He said to just keep an eye on it and see if any redness comes up in her mouth. He said she could have lost a tooth, got poked by a rats nail, been bit (which wasn't an option since she eats f/t) or maybe even was nose-rubbing. I put her in a different bin with less of a tolerance between the rack top and bin top and her swelling did go WAY down.

Also of note, her face does swell up quite a bit while she's in shed, but it always goes right back down.

Ah forgot to update this. The vet prescribed gentamicin injections every 3 days for 4 doses and I'm supposed to soak him every day as the medication can be a bit hard on their kidneys so keeping hydrated is important. His swelling has gone down a lot, he only occasionally looks a bit puffy.

He had the first dose Thursday and he does seem to be feeling better since, he just was acting like he didn't feel good before, very sluggish. He's definitely perked up since.

Thanks to Irishanaconda for your advise!

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Thanks to Irishanaconda for your advise!

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Oh Jeeze, pet peeve. Advice*

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I'm glad he's doing better! Hopefully he will continue to improve.

i am happy he is feeling better hope he can get of the meds soon:D:D:D

I'm glad to hear he is doing better! :)

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Update: We had a follow up appt today and he got a totally clean bill of health and the okay to feed. He also got a fecal done and came up totally clean. Yay!!!