Rats biting snakes

For those that feed live or have fed live. How often would u say that a rat or mouse was able to injure your snake while the snake is killing it? Assuming appropriately sized prey..

After being bit by a mouse myself I couldn't imagine the pain it would b for such a small snake. I would never leave it Unattended but my girl doesn't seem to be the most accurate this last feeding taking a couple long distance shots and missing so to speak.

Amd random but being nervous about this what if I were to feed the mouse or ray penut butter right before I give it to the snake.. to cushin tho blow or make it harder for the mouse to bite

As long as the snake is hungry they usually attack appropriately. But if the snake isn't hungry or isn't eating, if the rat is hungry they will try to eat whatever is there. Keep the rat full and just watch your feedings there shouldn't be no problem.

And also keep a pen handy. I usually just let the mouse/rat bite that if my little snakes mess up
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Originally Posted by BoostedMX3

For those that feed live or have fed live. How often would u say that a rat or mouse was able to injure your snake while the snake is killing it? Assuming appropriately sized prey..

After being bit by a mouse myself I couldn't imagine the pain it would b for such a small snake. I would never leave it Unattended but my girl doesn't seem to be the most accurate this last feeding taking a couple long distance shots and missing so to speak.

Amd random but being nervous about this what if I were to feed the mouse or ray penut butter right before I give it to the snake.. to cushin tho blow or make it harder for the mouse to bite

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Hundreds of feedings and zero biting incidents. Maybe 8% of those feedings had a potential for a bite, but I always just shove a chop stick into the feeders mouth so it was all good.

Mice tend to be more bitey than rats.

Just make sure the feeder is calm, well fed and hydrated, and the appropriate size.

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Idk this was one mean arse mouse haha I was worried for her it was like watching a boxing match with a lot of dancing and then boom she took it down.. 150g at last weigh in 27g mouse

Both times she has fed she has coiled so fast and tight I haven't been able to see where the head of the mouse ends up untill it's about dead n e way

Now please correct me if im wrong but If your feeding live and when he/she is hungry would you not still dangle it in front of the snake so they can strike it and kill it before it can try to bite the snakes body?

I just don't think I'd be comfortable just dropping it in and possibly injuring the snake. and.. having to wait and wait? Obviously it can still bite if its not locked well around the head and a chop stick or pen is a great idea :)

Sorry if I'm totally wrong

I've only had problems recently. Out of several hundred times I've fed live, I've had to stop a rat/mouse from biting maybe 4-5 times. It's usually when the snake strikes around the butt and constricts the middle, leaving the rodent's mouth to go about it's business.

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Originally Posted by RedseaReefer

Now please correct me if im wrong but If your feeding live and when he/she is hungry would you not still dangle it in front of the snake so they can strike it and kill it before it can try to bite the snakes body?

I just don't think I'd be comfortable just dropping it in and possibly injuring the snake. and.. having to wait and wait? Obviously it can still bite if its not locked well around the head and a chop stick or pen is a great idea :)

Sorry if I'm totally wrong

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Well, I find dangling extremely dangerous. More dangerous than just setting the feeder into the enclosure.
Dangling puts the feeder into panic mode. If you drop that panicked feeder, its going to be extremely scared and the chance of it biting out of fright is increased. Frightened animals are dangerous animals that will lash out.
Putting the feeder into the enclosure gently, keeps it calm. I have never had an incident where the feeder immediately went to attack the snake. 100% of my feeds, they just walk around exploring or just sit and groom themselves until the snake gets them.


Some responsible live feeding tips:

1) Feed the appropriate size food. I like smaller and more frequent meals than larger and less often. Weanlings and small rats are safe and harmless(to some extent). They're also not as conscious to danger as an adult would be. Adult rats can pack a nasty bite and are much stronger at fighting back, which is why "smaller and more frequent" is the way to go. I feed all of my adults small rats once a week. And multiple smalls for the big girls. A medium size would be the max appropriate size for a ball python. Even if the rat was able to bite, a smaller feeder won't do as much damage as a larger one. And another reason I like rats more than mice is because the equivalent size of an adult mouse is the same as a harmless rat pup. Adult mice can be nippy, baby rats not so much.

2) Keep the feeder well fed and hydrated. They're less likely to see your snake as food. Hungry rats are dangerous rats. They will eat your snake if left unattended for extended periods of time. This is the reason for most snake killing incidences.

3) Don't dangle the live feeder. This puts them in panic mode. A freaked out feeder is a dangerous feeder. Gently place the feeder into your enclosure. Calm feeders are good.

4) Monitor your feedings and keep a tool, such as tongs, on hand to assist your snake in case the feeder tries to bite down. Like I mentioned before, I use a chop stick to stick in the feeder's mouth if its in a bad position.

5) Don't keep the feeder in with your snake longer than 30 mins max or so. Some people have a shorter time frame. If the snake doesn't eat within that time frame, take out the feeder and save it for next week.

Overall, it's pretty rare for a feeder to immediately hone onto a snake and immediately attack it unless it was already scared in the first place.

I usually just drop the rat into the bin and slide it shut. However, there are some times of the year when my females will literally jump out of the tub when you open to feed. I love it when they have that kind of feeding response.

The only 100% way to prevent bites is to feed f/t or prekilled prey...
I wouldn't say I'm totally against feeding live. Out of my collection, my Pied ball will ONLY eat live rats, end of story. He's only about 300 grams and is a 2011 animal... I have been trying prekilled and f/t for months to no avail.
But again, I have seen my fair share of psychotic rats so I prefer something that is dead for that reason. I bought a small rat for my Pied once, and it absolutely would not stop jumping every time he struck; screaming and biting me when I picked it up too. I had a gut feeling that it would injure my snake. I ended up killing it myself and feeding it to someone else. I don't want to risk my prized animals getting scars, or worse!

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Originally Posted by BallChick

The only 100% way to prevent bites is to feed f/t or prekilled prey...

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Rabernet has posted before that out of 15K or more feedings shes only had maybe 5 serious bites that needed some sort of treatment. Thats a .9996% success rate, if you don't wanna round it up to 100%. Thats close enough for me. (I'm quoting from memory so I apologize if that stat isn't exact).

These guys are designed to kill, and they do it very well. Even if they don't get a good hit and your snake gets nipped by the rat or scratched (in other words a non-serious injury to their body) who cares? It'll heal in a few sheds. I keep my tubs clean so its not like theres a very good chance its gunna get infected. I mean, I try to avoid it, but if it happens its really not as big of a deal as people make it seem imo. You've never burned your mouth on a piece or pizza or a cup of coffee? Or bit down on a chip wrong and have it stab into your gums? It doesn't mean i should have someone pre-chew my food for me or serve me luke warm coffee.

EDIT: I'm not saying you should feed live, just making the point that it's more than safe to do so.

Appreciate all the feedback..

Im not worried about her gettin bit pre strike. She's got a good response and great awareness.. She knows instantly when I'm about to feed her.

I have been looking for rat pups local and will be switching to them ASAP but in the mean time it's mice only

Ive never had a rat bite my snake but one of them was really freaked out lunging and being crazy. But that was one time. I think i might start feeding live again. Been feeding prekilled for about 2 months. Luckily for me he will eat live or prekilled. Doesnt matter the color of the rat and he eats in deep shed. Is it riskier to feed live when his eyes are all "fogged up" from the shed?

Im talking about my normal male. He is 580 grams eating small rats.

FT isn't risk free either. Sure your snake won't get ugly bite wounds, but it still could result in a dead snake. Plenty of snakes have died on FT. Nothing is risk free. There are pros and cons to live and FT.
So feeding live or FT is just personal preference and being responsible about it.

Personally, if I had to thaw out feeders and individually do the zombie rat dance for everyone, feeding would take hours. :(

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Originally Posted by Gerardo

Ive never had a rat bite my snake but one of them was really freaked out lunging and being crazy. But that was one time. I think i might start feeding live again. Been feeding prekilled for about 2 months. Luckily for me he will eat live or prekilled. Doesnt matter the color of the rat and he eats in deep shed. Is it riskier to feed live when his eyes are all "fogged up" from the shed?

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I want to say No. I've had blues strike and coil fine. They use their heat pit sensors to track prey more than their eye sight. But I've had some in shed that aren't comfortable enough to try anything either until they shed.

Like I mentioned before, the typical rat will usually just explore the enclosure curiously or relax and groom itself. It's not really normal or common to see rats freak out and attack unless they were stressed out prior to placing it into the enclosure for feeding.

On another note: Even when I feed my ferrets live, the rats don't fight back or attack either. And that's actually a fight for survival type of situation... I've never had a ferret get wounded in a live feed. Like the snakes, they're given small and younger feeders.

Perhaps I just breed really docile rats?? Aggression in rodents is heritable after all.

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Usually when we feed live I stand there with a pen or something so if he try's to bite the snake. I just let him bite the pen instead. They really go for it!! It has worked since the beginning

Just an FYI, I've been bitten by rats more than all of my snakes combined have.

I've seen a guy on YouTube put the rat in a plastic bag and spin the bag to get the rat dizzy before placin it in the enclosure. Do you guys think that's a good method to prevent your snake from getting injured?

Out of 100s of feeds almost 1000s I have only had my albino get a little scratched up. As others said they are pretty good and wrapping them up properly and I keep a pen handy in case

Also I never dangle. I only place them in gently and let the snake take care of the rest. If they snake is striking aggressively and not trying to eat it I will take the rat out so it doesn't get afraid and attack back.

Don't leave them more then 20 minutes or so either way

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Originally Posted by bx718

I've seen a guy on YouTube put the rat in a plastic bag and spin the bag to get the rat dizzy before placin it in the enclosure. Do you guys think that's a good method to prevent your snake from getting injured?

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No


You don't want to freak the rat out at all. You don't want to spin it, club it, smack it, talk trash to it, or anything that puts it into defensive mode before dropping it with your snake. You want it to be as clueless as possible. Ball pythons hunt by AMBUSH. You don't want the rat going in there thinking something is up.

I feed about 250+ rats a months been doing that for a good while, never had any injury necessitating any type of treatment or intervention on my part. No horror story to report!

Here are some important things to know

Feed an appropriate prey size
Remove the rodent after 15/20 min
Supervise feeding
Pre-scenting the room
Make sure the feeders are not stressed and are well hydrated and well fed (If you buy them from a store let them settle a bit and offer food and water before feeding them off)
etc

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Originally Posted by satomi325

FT isn't risk free either. Sure your snake won't get ugly bite wounds, but it still could result in a dead snake. Plenty of snakes have died on FT. Nothing is risk free. There are pros and cons to live and FT.
So feeding live or FT is just personal preference and being responsible about it.

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How can feeding f/t result in a dead snake? Perhaps the rat was sick? Or maybe the rodent is too big? But that's different than the risk of death by a bite. I'm just curious how it would be possible because I can't wrap my head around it lol :P.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

How can feeding f/t result in a dead snake? Perhaps the rat was sick? Or maybe the rodent is too big? But that's different than the risk of death by a bite. I'm just curious how it would be possible because I can't wrap my head around it lol :P.

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Improper thawing.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Improper thawing.

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:explosion

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Originally Posted by h00blah

:explosion

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Im on tapatalk so i have no clue what that means lol

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Originally Posted by h00blah

How can feeding f/t result in a dead snake? Perhaps the rat was sick? Or maybe the rodent is too big? But that's different than the risk of death by a bite. I'm just curious how it would be possible because I can't wrap my head around it lol :P.

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Like any method if not done properly it's not risk free, an improperly thawed rodent (in other words still partially frozen) will kill your snakes and trust me if someone is stupid enough to leave a rodent for days with a snake they would be stupid enough to feed something that was not properly thawed.

Feeding is about being knowledgeable, smart and responsible :thumbup:

And a little hijack

To those spinning rats to get them dizzy or thinking about doing so, or putting a rat in a bag and throwing it against the wall , those are the people that have no business feeding live and need to reevaluate their methods.

Live can be safe and also human as possible for the prey.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Im on tapatalk so i have no clue what that means lol

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Haha it's the emote where the happy little face tosses a grenade full of knowledge into the unsuspecting cloud's mouth, and the cloud explodes. AKA mind blown :gj:. At least that's how I interpret it haha.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Like any method if not done properly it's not risk free, an improperly thawed rodent (in other words still partially frozen) will kill your snakes and trust me if someone is stupid enough to leave a rodent for days with a snake they would be stupid enough to feed something that was not properly thawed.

Feeding is about being knowledgeable, smart and responsible :thumbup:

And a little hijack

To those spinning rats to get them dizzy or thinking about doing so, or putting a rat in a bag and throwing it against the wall , those are the people that have no business feeding live and need to reevaluate their methods.

Live can be safe and also human as possible for the prey.

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:gj::gj:. Couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

How can feeding f/t result in a dead snake? Perhaps the rat was sick? Or maybe the rodent is too big? But that's different than the risk of death by a bite. I'm just curious how it would be possible because I can't wrap my head around it lol :P.

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Yup. Exactly what Mike and Deborah explained.

A rat that's still frozen or the core is still frozen can kill a snake. It shocks their internal system, which is a pretty big deal for a cold blooded critter.

One example that comes to mind is a boa on here who died. The owner didn't thaw out the rats. They didn't know the rats had to be thawed.....

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I kill rats by blunt force trauma. After reading all this i am going to come up with a new way of feeding my snakes. I think im going to go back to live feedings and apply all the safety measures required to feed properly.

I feed live because it's easier and I have ready access to feeders, and have done so since I got my first ball python 21 years ago - I can count on one hand the number of bites my snakes have experienced in that time. To be fair, one of those was a horrible incident when I was a kid leaving a rat in overnight, and I can assure you the best method to prevent bites is to keep the feeder well fed and watered beforehand.

The few bites I have seen where the rat/mouse actually made contact with the snake, there was either no broken skin/scales or the wound was so small it disappeared by the next shed. The only time I am concerned is when the rodent's mouth is by the snake's face, and generally only for the babies. My big girls are BRUTAL when it comes to eating - the entire rack rocks when they strike and when I do check on the rat, it is usually already gasping for breath 5 seconds after being grabbed. As another poster mentioned, these are predators and when given the chance, they are VERY good at it!

-Jen

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Originally Posted by MrLang

No


You don't want to freak the rat out at all. You don't want to spin it, club it, smack it, talk trash to it, or anything that puts it into defensive mode before dropping it with your snake. You want it to be as clueless as possible. Ball pythons hunt by AMBUSH. You don't want the rat going in there thinking something is up.

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The care sheet doesn't say anything about trash talking! I trust your judgement and experience, so I'll stop doing that.

I reserved my trash talking for after she coiled when the lil bastard mouse was on its final breath haha.. I still have 2 lil prick marks from that thing..

Not to get to off topic here as this seems to have generated lots of responses but I bought two mice this last weekend.. Fed one and the other is in a lil critter keeper.. Not to find of these things do I threw in a lil aspen dumped some of the food from. The pet store in and filled a shot glass with water..

This booger has been putting food in the water idl if it has been drinking it tho.. I'm not planning on keeping mice on any regular basis so I don't plan on buying one of those bottles. But do mice/rats typically dirty their water if givin a bowl?

It also depends on how good a hunter your snake is. If she doesn't tag it right on the nose, or doesn't restrain the neck somehow the rat can and sometimes will bite. If you have and old snake, or a wobbly spider it's much safer to feed her frozen thawed rats.

Man iPhone autocorrect is horrible..

N e way from what I have seen with spider wobble at the shows it's pretty obvious.. However my pastel's parents were a normal and either a bumblebee or lemon blast. If mom was a bee could she have inherited a small bit of wobble?

I haven't seen her go nuts like spiders but when she has her head up she will shake/sway ever so slightly..

If you read worried thump it and daze it then feed it

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Originally Posted by glk832

If you read worried thump it and daze it then feed it

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Doesnt seem very humane.. IMO its either healty and live or p/k with co2 or a quick neck break.. I hate rodents but still respect life..

Reason I want to feed live is because I feel its only fair to the snake that if I'm going to keep it captive to at least let it hunt..

One and only time I fed live was to a burmese, large rat, appropriately sized or SMALLER. Ravenous appetite.
Snake grabbed the rat right away, rat chomped down on his back when he was coiled.

It got infected and he was put on antibiotic injections. He didn't make it.

large rats pack a bad bite....no matter how big you are :(

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Originally Posted by BoostedMX3

If mom was a bee could she have inherited a small bit of wobble?

I haven't seen her go nuts like spiders but when she has her head up she will shake/sway ever so slightly..

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I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The wobble is only linked to the spider gene. So if your snake does not have the spider gene, it doesn't have that type of wobble. A wobble in a non-spider morph could just mean an incubation error.

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Originally Posted by glk832

If you read worried thump it and daze it then feed it

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Yikes.....

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Originally Posted by Willow88

large rats pack a bad bite....no matter how big you are :(

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Which is why you don't feed large live rats...
Medium would the the maximum appropriate size for a live feed.

I found if you leave the tub open about a half inch the rat will be interested in getting out and a bit distracted while my BP sneaks up behind :)

Also @ BoostedMX3 iv been stuck with a rat for about 1-2 months when my BP went off feed, they grow FAST so be careful might outgrow your snake, also pick up a $5 ball bearing rat water feeder, TRUST ME I tried the shotglass it does not work!! they tip it over, stick things in it etc, its nearly impossible to get the rat to drink out of anything else, even if its just one it will save you from ripping your hair out.

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Originally Posted by BoostedMX3

I reserved my trash talking for after she coiled when the lil bastard mouse was on its final breath haha.. I still have 2 lil prick marks from that thing..

Not to get to off topic here as this seems to have generated lots of responses but I bought two mice this last weekend.. Fed one and the other is in a lil critter keeper.. Not to find of these things do I threw in a lil aspen dumped some of the food from. The pet store in and filled a shot glass with water..

This booger has been putting food in the water idl if it has been drinking it tho.. I'm not planning on keeping mice on any regular basis so I don't plan on buying one of those bottles. But do mice/rats typically dirty their water if givin a bowl?

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I feed live, and haven't had any bites. I do stand by with my tongs, ready to stick them in the rodents mouth if I need to, if the snakes hit isn't right on. These guys know what they are doing, and are good at it.

As far as the feeder goes, do not spin, smack, or whack it prior to putting it in. Don't dangle it either. Scared, ticked off feeder is not what you want. Clueless and well fed is. Then they just clean themselves and explore and shove the paper towels around, lol.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I feed live, and haven't had any bites. I do stand by with my tongs, ready to stick them in the rodents mouth if I need to, if the snakes hit isn't right on. These guys know what they are doing, and are good at it.

As far as the feeder goes, do not spin, smack, or whack it prior to putting it in. Don't dangle it either. Scared, ticked off feeder is not what you want. Clueless and well fed is. Then they just clean themselves and explore and shove the paper towels around, lol.

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:number1: X2 - Exactly right!

I too feed live but stand by with tongs or sometimes fingers :/ to shove in the rat's mouth, needless to say, I much prefer the tongs. I've had a couple snakes strike weird and get very minor bites once or twice but nothing remotely serious. As long as you aren't dumping the rodent in and leaving you should be and most importantly always feed appropriately sized meals, never too big. The only time I've seen a rodent actually actively try to attack a snake was the one time I tried offering a gerbil to a picky eater.

i use to feed my snakes live rats but they bit one of my snakes under his jaw ...so now i hit every rat over the head then feed it to my snake

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Originally Posted by favela245

i use to feed my snakes live rats but they bit one of my snakes under his jaw ...so now i hit every rat over the head then feed it to my snake

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Sounds cruel.

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Originally Posted by favela245

i use to feed my snakes live rats but they bit one of my snakes under his jaw ...so now i hit every rat over the head then feed it to my snake

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Do you hit them to kill them or punish them??

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Originally Posted by favela245

..so now i hit every rat over the head then feed it to my snake

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Yikes......

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

Sounds cruel

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X2
:(


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So to those of you who are reading clear advice from people that it's both inhumane as well as risky for your snakes' health and still advocating doing things like spinning, 'thumping' which is actually called bludgeoning, and the like, I pose the following question to you and you should think carefully before you answer it.

Why are you doing this?

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Originally Posted by MrLang

So to those of you who are reading clear advice from people that it's both inhumane as well as risky for your snakes' health and still advocating doing things like spinning, 'thumping' which is actually called bludgeoning, and the like, I pose the following question to you and you should think carefully before you answer it.

Why are you doing this?

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For the spinning, since I brought it up doesn't mean I do it, I guess the YouTube guy feels like the rat will be to dizzy to defend itself when a Bp strikes it. That's my guess. I usually just place the rats head in front of my bps head to ensure a perfect strike, doesn't work all the time though.

Heres the video I'm referring to:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lmxhpU3Nrwo