when what you thought was a male is actually a female

Hey everyone. Not sure if this is the proper section for my situation. Sorry if it's not. So back in may I bought a group of balls from a very reputable breeder and had some very specific plans for each morph, obviously relying completely on what was male and what was female for offspring outcome, and I found out today that one that was sold to me as a male is actually a female. This clearly alters my breeding plans, which is very annoying, but something I am concerned about even more is the fact that my 800 gram male was locked up with this 800 gram surprise female.

This happened because I had the two "males" in a tub with a 1700 gram female at the same time, and when I got home from work today to check on them, the two "males" were 100% locked up. Absolutely no question about the lock either. So I kind of disturbed them so they would "unlock", which they did after a couple of minutes. And then I immediately removed her, sexed them both and was able to 100% verify that "he" is a she. It being that I am new to breeding, what I'm wondering about is the possible consequences of this very undersized female being bred? Is it possible for such a small female to even be fertilized? and if so, what happens if she produces? will it kill her? What exactly am I looking at dealing with here?

And lastly, what should I do about the fact that she was sold to me as a male? Is this a common occurrence and one that I just need to say "oh well this kind of thing happens"? Or should I contact the breeder for some kind of resolution? Any advice from more experienced keepers/breeders would be very much appreciated. Thanks for the help.

Well if you paid male price congrats. This is the reason I check every snake when I get them, and then check when their are done with quarantine.

With the deal happening so long ago at this point, there isn't much to be done about the sexing mistake probably. Most breeders will make it right if caught soon after. Other than that being a female instead of a male, price wise works to your favor. I know it puts a kink in your plans, but an extra female is never a problem.

Don't worry about the lock either, most animals know their reproductive capabilities far better than we do and she'll be fine. Mind if I ask why there were two "males" in with the female? Were you hoping to spark one of them to breed through fighting/competition?

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For next time, DO NOT DISTURB A LOCK. You can damage both party's.

K now down to business. Really its up to the female weather she wants to lay eggs or not. Just because you got a lock doesn't mean eggs 100%. I would say she will make whatever call she is ready for. I wouldn't worry too much. I would be stoked to find out that info. I had the inverse happen to me. Bought a "female" pastel. Haha not. Male. Oops. Live and learn. I always bring a probe kit and some line with me if I'm getting a snake from a stranger now. Best of luck man!


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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

Well if you paid male price congrats. This is the reason I check every snake when I get them, and then check when their are done with quarantine.

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Understood. I agree that is what should be done. But one of the reasons I acquired most of my snakes from such a well respected and reputable breeder is because I am admittedly not experienced at sexing yet, and so my reliance on the skills of the breeder in this area is vital to the assurance of what I thought I was purchasing. I spent a rather large sum of money on this group of snakes from a very experienced high caliber breeder, and feel that I should be able to have peace of mind about the accuracy of sexing. I'm not angry about it, as you said I did ultimately get a female for a male price, and the snake in question is not exactly a "high value" morph so it will not turn out to be as costly and detrimental of a mistake as it could have been. However, some of the morphs I bought were high dollar, so I'm a little worried about the possibility that some of them may not be what they were sold as. And regardless of value, it does put a bit of a kink in my original plans, and it does still now put this female at risk for I don't know what.

I would definitely contact the breeder...Time shouldn't matter if you can prove it's the same snake they sold you...

Did you get any photo id, or do you have any pics from the sellers ad so you can prove it's the same snake?

Sometimes males will lock with males for dominance ..

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Originally Posted by HerpIsAhobby

With the deal happening so long ago at this point, there isn't much to be done about the sexing mistake probably. Most breeders will make it right if caught soon after. Other than that being a female instead of a male, price wise works to your favor. I know it puts a kink in your plans, but an extra female is never a problem.

Don't worry about the lock either, most animals know their reproductive capabilities far better than we do and she'll be fine. Mind if I ask why there were two "males" in with the female? Were you hoping to spark one of them to breed through fighting/competition?

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Yes, I have been putting one male in with the female for 2 months now and have yet to witness a sure lock, so I decided to introduce another male to try to get some more interest going on in there. But the other male I introduced happens to be a female.

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Originally Posted by interloc

For next time, DO NOT DISTURB A LOCK. You can damage both party's.

K now down to business. Really its up to the female weather she wants to lay eggs or not. Just because you got a lock doesn't mean eggs 100%. I would say she will make whatever call she is ready for. I wouldn't worry too much. I would be stoked to find out that info. I had the inverse happen to me. Bought a "female" pastel. Haha not. Male. Oops. Live and learn. I always bring a probe kit and some line with me if I'm getting a snake from a stranger now. Best of luck man!


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I thought about that after I disturbed them. Rookie mistake I guess. I was a little bit panicked when I saw the lock. They both seem to be fine though so I think I lucked out.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

I would definitely contact the breeder...Time shouldn't matter if you can prove it's the same snake they sold you...

Did you get any photo id, or do you have any pics from the sellers ad so you can prove it's the same snake?

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I have a bill of sale specifying the transaction with details of what exactly I purchased, and the container that the snake arrived in clearly id'ing the snake as male. I also have video of when they arrived and me pulling out the containers one by one etc. What would I do at this point though? I'm not sure what I would even expect as a resolution should I decide to contact the guy.

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Originally Posted by Flikky

Sometimes males will lock with males for dominance ..

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Really?? I never knew this. I know when I popped them both, the one male was definately 100% male. Had two good sized hemipenes pop out and sperm plugs as well. With the other "male" I could get absolutely no penes to pop. I got some urine, but no signs whatsoever that it is a male.

Yeah two males can lock...I would try the questionable male again after he has settled down from being with the other snakes...

Maybe start a little further back and push a little harder then what it took to pop the other male...A second opinion would be nice also...Do you know someone in you area that knows how to sex?

Start by contacting the breeder and telling them the situation...Maybe they have a male they are raising or something close to the genetics you want...It's possible they can locate the same male you want through another contact and get you a replacement that way...

You really won't know what might happen until you ask...

I was going to say if you don't know how to sex them, why are you believing that the 800 gram "male" is a female.
I've never had a male do anything but battle another male or lock him up in a sign of dominance, which it sounds like what you've got going.
Personally I think putting 2 males together is a dumb idea after trying it several times last year.
I know people swear by it, but I see nothing to gain by stressing out 2 males and maybe even the female.
Patience and proper husbandry and 95% of these males would breed with no tricks at all.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I was going to say if you don't know how to sex them, why are you believing that the 800 gram "male" is a female.
I've never had a male do anything but battle another male or lock him up in a sign of dominance, which it sounds like what you've got going.
Personally I think putting 2 males together is a dumb idea after trying it several times last year.
I know people swear by it, but I see nothing to gain by stressing out 2 males and maybe even the female.
Patience and proper husbandry and 95% of these males would breed with no tricks at all.

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It never made since to me either...If you have reluctant breeder putting him in with a good breeder that will most likely dominate him isn't going to help a thing!!!

And then what if you screw up the good breeders mojo... Definitely something I don't do or suggest to people!

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I was going to say if you don't know how to sex them, why are you believing that the 800 gram "male" is a female.
I've never had a male do anything but battle another male or lock him up in a sign of dominance, which it sounds like what you've got going.
Personally I think putting 2 males together is a dumb idea after trying it several times last year.
I know people swear by it, but I see nothing to gain by stressing out 2 males and maybe even the female.
Patience and proper husbandry and 95% of these males would breed with no tricks at all.

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Well, I never knew that 2 males could actually lock so I automatically assumed that the one was a female. I know how to sex them, I know the process and have been able to successfully pop a few males, I'm just not all that experienced at it and do not 100% trust my skills at this point. And the reason I tried introducing another male was only because of the numerous accounts I have read that it was one method of deriving a stronger breeding response. Which I am now seeing that maybe is not a good practice.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Yeah two males can lock...I would try the questionable male again after he has settled down from being with the other snakes...

Maybe start a little further back and push a little harder then what it took to pop the other male...A second opinion would be nice also...Do you know someone in you area that knows how to sex?

Start by contacting the breeder and telling them the situation...Maybe they have a male they are raising or something close to the genetics you want...It's possible they can locate the same male you want through another contact and get you a replacement that way...

You really won't know what might happen until you ask...

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I will try sexing again.

Here is what was my projected scenario: I purchased what I assumed to be: male superblast, male pastave, female mystic, female bumblebee, female spider, female mojave. I already owned a male mojave and I purchased an adult proven female normal from elsewhere. My plans were: male superblast paired with: bumblebee, spider, normal. All kinds of possibilities there. Male pastave paired with female mojave because I wanted some pastel BEL. Not sure how those would look much different than a regular BEL but nonetheless, it was my plan. Mojave paired with mystic because I want mystic potions. The male that I now think might be female is the pastave, so in the end the only thing that really changes is I pair up the male mojave with both the female mojave and the now female pastave. I still should have all of the same possible outcomes of my original planned pairings. So i'm not sure it would even be reasonable to contact the breeder and let him know. I'm just glad that the superblast is indeed male, because that would have been very detrimental to my plans. Thanks for all the advice and thoughts everyone.

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Originally Posted by versicolor

Well, I never knew that 2 males could actually lock so I automatically assumed that the one was a female. I know how to sex them, I know the process and have been able to successfully pop a few males, I'm just not all that experienced at it and do not 100% trust my skills at this point. And the reason I tried introducing another male was only because of the numerous accounts I have read that it was one method of deriving a stronger breeding response. Which I am now seeing that maybe is not a good practice.

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Like the others I would never put two males together. Instead, put a mature male's shed into the female's bin. Then introduce the reluctant male. I bet the snake in question is indeed a male. Some snakes are really hard to pop accurately once mature.

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Like the others I would never put two males together. Instead, put a mature male's shed into the female's bin. Then introduce the reluctant male. I bet the snake in question is indeed a male. Some snakes are really hard to pop accurately once mature.

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Okay I will do that next time. Thanks for the advice.

I tried sexing the pastave again. Quite a few times actually and I just cannot get him/her to pop. I thought maybe it was my method and inexperience but I am able to fairly easily pop my two other males. It still could be me, but i'm leaning more towards it being female.

I think its funny that your complaining about finding out that your pastave "male" is female. I would be stoked.


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Originally Posted by interloc

I think its funny that your complaining about finding out that your pastave "male" is female. I would be stoked.


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I wouldn't say I'm so much complaining as I'm just reacting to the situation at hand and trying to get information and advice about it from all of the experts on this forum. As I said before I was more concerned with a still very undersized female being bred, than any issues I have with the fact that he turned out to be a she. I did state that ultimately my plans for offspring remains basically the same so I'm not sure where you get that I am complaining about it. Certainly not my intent to come across that way.

It doesn't matter who you get snakes from you should always double check. I myself have gotten snakes from breeders everyone on here would know that were not sexed correctly. It happens all the time. I had a buddy that had bought a what was suppose to be a male and a female from two different people. He wanted to breed the pair together. It turned out they were both sexed wrong so he still had a 1.1 pair which worked out for him....lol

The most accurate way to sex a snake is to use a probe