Why live??

Hi all, strange first post I know, as you can see I am from the Uk and have just been reading the thread about the ball being bitten by its dinner. This is not a dig or anything but i am just curious as to why you feed live so much. In the UK nearly all of us feed D/f or some fresh kill if fussy, very few feed live and at a last resort. Pretty much most BP's will take D/F and as seen its so much safer for your pride and joys. I have bought balls from the States and Canada and all eat D/F straight away. Thanks

Some are just stubborn. Some find live more convenient.

3/5 of my bps are strict live eaters. I have offered them p/k, mice, rats.

I like feeding live though. Thawed rats smell really bad to me Ahaha

Convenience and preference of my animals. It would take more time than I have available to thaw rodents and then if/when my animals refuse, I'd be out a food item. With live, they either eat it or don't and if not, that prey animal is saved for the next feeding. Most of my animals prefer live and have yet to convert to f/t, if ever they do.

I can only really afford food in bulk atm when buying from my local reptile store so all I really feed is frozen. I would much rather feed live though and when I have the space will definitely be breeding my own rats and primarily feed live. Picky snakes have much stronger feeding responses when it's the real deal and honestly I don't like the idea of feeding your snake such a tainted piece of meat with the whole dead, then frozen, then heated deal. Food also loses quality from being frozen.

Cheers for your replies guys, over here if you need to feed live you have to breed them yourself which for most is not an option due to space(and smell to be honest) Its so convenient to keep a freezer full. I fully get the wastage part, but thats what Burms are for:):):) Can you guys buy live from a pet shop to feed your snakes or is that a no-no like here?

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Originally Posted by piedmad

Cheers for your replies guys, over here if you need to feed live you have to breed them yourself which for most is not an option due to space(and smell to be honest) Its so convenient to keep a freezer full. I fully get the wastage part, but thats what Burms are for:):):) Can you guys buy live from a pet shop to feed your snakes or is that a no-no like here?

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I breed my own and I agree with you on the space/smell being an issue. I've been to Europe (Spain, England and Holland) and I could see how the space requirements would be an issue over there. Biggest issue for buying live at a pet store is the costs and knowing how the prey items were treated/raised prior to being offered for sale. Even though mine are being fed, I take excellent care of them in terms of their upkeep and their diets, as they are what my snakes are eating, after all. I don't save any money raising my own but I have the peace of mind of knowing how they were raised and what they were fed prior to my feeding them off. :gj:

I personally feed live on and absolutely as needed basis. I have seen firsthand the damage live can cause in a short amount of time and prefer for my animals health and safety top avoid it. I have several "finicky" eaters that currently refuse to switch and those that refuse get stunned live. Do I like stunning? No. Do I feel it a necessity? Pretty much.

Live (in my opinion of course) should only be used as a last resort option.

@ "I don't have enough time" and "it's not convenient"

For small/medium rats it only takes about an hour, maybe 2 if your tap water isn't hot to thaw them out fully.
1. get bucket
2. fill with x number of rats
3. fill with hot tap water
4. check periodically
5. replace water when too cool
6. feed

I am not sure what people mean when they say it isn't convenient. Having a month or 3 on hand of feeders is much easier than running out to your live supplier every week. When you get down to a few weeks worth, order again.

Bulk buy food is also typically significantly cheaper if you don't breed your own.
Here are my live vs frozen prices if I buy weekly:

Live:
smalls@$3.99 ea x 8
mediums@4.99ea x 10
lg@6.99 ea. x 3
xl@7.99 eac x 3
2 x 3-4lb rabbits ~$10-$14
_______________________
~$146.76 per week

Frozen:
smalls@$1.05ea x 8
mediums@$1.25ea x 10
lg@$2.00ea x3
xl@$2.25 ea x3
rabbits@$3.50ea x2
____________________
~$40.65 per week.

Add in the 20-30 bucks a YEAR it costs to run a small chest freezer(which you can get for about the price of what my weekly LIVE feeders would be), economically(here anyway) there is zero reason not to do f/t.

I understand we all have different space/time/etc and these are just my opinions. I just tend to have strong feelings about live prey for the simple fact that in my novice days I got to see rodent damage. Not too long ago in one of the retic groups I lurk in someone made a poor decision with a feeder(a live flemish giant) and it rip the side of the snake right open. I have not seen whether or not the snake made it or not.

Rats may not "rip them open" so to speak but have you yourself ever taken a rat bite? They take CHUNKS. Mice tend to puncture but a solid rat bite will leave a hole which is an opening for infection/etc.

If you breed your own, there are plenty of DIY chambers for bulk euthanasia to be found online.
My apologies for becoming long winded.

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Originally Posted by youbeyouibei

I breed my own and I agree with you on the space/smell being an issue. I've been to Europe (Spain, England and Holland) and I could see how the space requirements would be an issue over there. Biggest issue for buying live at a pet store is the costs and knowing how the prey items were treated/raised prior to being offered for sale. Even though mine are being fed, I take excellent care of them in terms of their upkeep and their diets, as they are what my snakes are eating, after all. I don't save any money raising my own but I have the peace of mind of knowing how they were raised and what they were fed prior to my feeding them off. :gj:

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I completely agree with this idea. I'm really looking forward to being able to breed my own.

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Originally Posted by the_yellow_pony

I personally feed live on and absolutely as needed basis. I have seen firsthand the damage live can cause in a short amount of time and prefer for my animals health and safety top avoid it. I have several "finicky" eaters that currently refuse to switch and those that refuse get stunned live. Do I like stunning? No. Do I feel it a necessity? Pretty much.

Live (in my opinion of course) should only be used as a last resort option.

@ "I don't have enough time" and "it's not convenient"

For small/medium rats it only takes about an hour, maybe 2 if your tap water isn't hot to thaw them out fully.
1. get bucket
2. fill with x number of rats
3. fill with hot tap water
4. check periodically
5. replace water when too cool
6. feed

I am not sure what people mean when they say it isn't convenient. Having a month or 3 on hand of feeders is much easier than running out to your live supplier every week. When you get down to a few weeks worth, order again.

Bulk buy food is also typically significantly cheaper if you don't breed your own.
Here are my live vs frozen prices if I buy weekly:

Live:
smalls@$3.99 ea x 8
mediums@4.99ea x 10
lg@6.99 ea. x 3
xl@7.99 eac x 3
2 x 3-4lb rabbits ~$10-$14
_______________________
~$146.76 per week

Frozen:
smalls@$1.05ea x 8
mediums@$1.25ea x 10
lg@$2.00ea x3
xl@$2.25 ea x3
rabbits@$3.50ea x2
____________________
~$40.65 per week.

Add in the 20-30 bucks a YEAR it costs to run a small chest freezer(which you can get for about the price of what my weekly LIVE feeders would be), economically(here anyway) there is zero reason not to do f/t.

I understand we all have different space/time/etc and these are just my opinions. I just tend to have strong feelings about live prey for the simple fact that in my novice days I got to see rodent damage. Not too long ago in one of the retic groups I lurk in someone made a poor decision with a feeder(a live flemish giant) and it rip the side of the snake right open. I have not seen whether or not the snake made it or not.

Rats may not "rip them open" so to speak but have you yourself ever taken a rat bite? They take CHUNKS. Mice tend to puncture but a solid rat bite will leave a hole which is an opening for infection/etc.

If you breed your own, there are plenty of DIY chambers for bulk euthanasia to be found online.
My apologies for becoming long winded.

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x2

I once had to feed live to a couple of my snakes because THEY WOULDN'T take frozen thawed no matter how hard I tried. I brought home a live adult mouse and three live fuzzies and they were in separate cartons. Long story short, went to bed and woke up and saw the cartons all chewed up and the fuzzies were on the the adult. One was dead (organs everywhere) and the other had a blody gash in the side
And one was gone (?) I agree frozen food much more convienent!

I personally only feed live, its less expensive and far more convenient for me. I pay a third what normal people pay for rats and mice, I pay about 1euro per animal for any size mouse and 1.50 for rats or something. I did try breeding my own for a while but it just became more work and with my wife being allergic and with her asthma it was pretty much doctors orders to stop. I will likely try again if I ever have a house where I can have an out building. I live in Germany, we have small freezers and fridges, I do not have space for rats and mice in my freezer. That means I would have to purchase a second freezer which means more energy costs, and thats already through the roof with all the racks and terrariums and inkubator.

I feed live. I don't have to run to a supplier every week though, I breed my own. Which makes it super easy and convenient. I simply go in the room, grab a rat and go feed. If snake doesn't eat, rat goes into the next tub until somebody eats him. If nobody does, he goes back in the tank till next week. No wasted food for me. Frozen thawed is a pita, imo. Take the rats out, keep checking to see if properly thawed, then dink around doing zombie dances? Plus I don't have the freezer space to store dead rats. I'll pass. Live is what works for me and mine, and none of mine have a problem with it. I supervise so no accidents happen, and everything is fine, safe, and easy. Your snake is only going to get chewed up that bad if you aren't watching and leave a hungry grumpy feeder alone with him for awhile.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I feed live. I don't have to run to a supplier every week though, I breed my own. Which makes it super easy and convenient. I simply go in the room, grab a rat and go feed. If snake doesn't eat, rat goes into the next tub until somebody eats him. If nobody does, he goes back in the tank till next week. No wasted food for me. Frozen thawed is a pita, imo. Take the rats out, keep checking to see if properly thawed, then dink around doing zombie dances? Plus I don't have the freezer space to store dead rats. I'll pass. Live is what works for me and mine, and none of mine have a problem with it. I supervise so no accidents happen, and everything is fine, safe, and easy. Your snake is only going to get chewed up that bad if you aren't watching and leave a hungry grumpy feeder alone with him for awhile.

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Still don't get how maintaining a colony of live is less of a pita than spending a little bit of time to thaw things out once a week. To each their own.

Zombie dances made me laugh. The mental image was funny. Most, once adjusted to f/t don't really require much zombie dancing in my experience.

Freezer space, I get. I just bought a chest freezer specifically for my rodents.

In regards to safe and easy, and while I like to avoid argument, no accidents ever happening? Really? So you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that every time your animals constrict there is no room for a bite or two?

I get that it's what works for you and that's fine, but blanket statements like that are silly. While they might not get "chewed up", a bite comes with it's own series of risks.

Another question, what about rats fed to quarantine animals? If they refuse to you kill off the feeder and freeze/dispose of it?

Just curious.

I do all of the above. I have a breeding rack full of live feeders. I have a freezer full of feeders. If the breeders are doing well, everyone eats live and occasionally I get to add to the stock in the freezer. If i can't come up with enough from the live selection in a particular week, I start thawing rodents from the freezer and feed them that way. I have never really had a problem either way. Most of my snakes will easily eat either. Only a few of my b/ps need a little extra zombie dance from a f/t to get them to take it.

As has been said before, feeding is only as safe as the person doing the feeding. A good friend of mine has well over 500 snakes and I am there every Thursday when he feeds his collection and I have never seen anything negative happen to the snakes due to the live rats. He has even forgotten a few in there for a day and still nothing. I think that in most cases, if a rat attacks a snake in just a few hours, something is wrong with the rat. For example, it is either severely starved and/or dehydrated.

I do not feel it is ok to leave live feeders with the snakes for more than maybe a couple of hours, but things happens. In most cases where a feeder was left for a long period of time, the snake was unharmed. And this is coming from the guy who's snake was chewed up by a rat. I honestly feel that snake must have been dehydrated to the point where it had to chew through my snake for water.

Also, feeding F/T has it's negatives too. There are just as many risks involved.

The way I see it is they don't get prekilled or f/t in the wild, and unlike in the wild, they have someone to help them if anything does happen!!!

I feed both though tbh, that wasn't a rant on "you should only feed live" or anything like that. Frozen is awesome for specifics in my situation, but for smaller snakes I like to breed my own and feed live!!


Ball Pythons
0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

Boa Constrictors
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)

My little guy will not eat f/t at all, I have tried everything so I am forced to stick with live

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Originally Posted by piedmad

Cheers for your replies guys, over here if you need to feed live you have to breed them yourself which for most is not an option due to space(and smell to be honest) Its so convenient to keep a freezer full. I fully get the wastage part, but thats what Burms are for:):):) Can you guys buy live from a pet shop to feed your snakes or is that a no-no like here?

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You can buy live feeders at every pet store where I live!

I feed live or fresh killed if it is a bigger rat only because it is so much more convenient. I have only had snakes for about a year or so and was originally feeding f/t but since I drive a truck for a living and my schedule is unpredictable and my wife aint gonna feed for me so it is much easier to run to the pet store and grab a few rats on the way home and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by the_yellow_pony

So you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that every time your animals constrict there is no room for a bite or two?

Another question, what about rats fed to quarantine animals? If they refuse to you kill off the feeder and freeze/dispose of it?

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I stand by with tongs in hand, and have when needed stuck them in rodents mouths. My snakes have never been bit. Besides, I really doubt that the wild snakes in Africa have people thawing out frozen rats for them, yet they feed and survive. These animals know how to eat and what they are doing, you just need to trust them to do it.

Only rat I have had rejected by a qt animal was actually recent. My new albino was in shed and didn't eat. Rodent was killed and disposed of. I did not save or keep it, it went in the garbage.

I enjoy interacting with live rats more than dead ones. So I would rather maintain my feeders, see cute babies, and scratch their little heads, than thaw frozen dead ratcicles.

Again, this is me. If it doesn't work for you fine.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I enjoy interacting with live rats more than dead ones. So I would rather maintain my feeders, see cute babies, and scratch their little heads, than thaw frozen dead ratcicles.

Again, this is me. If it doesn't work for you fine.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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X2 haha I like breeding my feeders, mine get live now fT once an awhile once I buy a chest freezer and my other nine rats are ready I'm gonna start freezing in prep for next month when I start adding more snakes.

I feed live because it's easier and cheaper. I also enjoy breeding and playing with them. They're fun to be around, which doesn't make taking care of them seem like a chore.
I breed pet quality rats. 2-3 sold dumbos or dumbo rexes a month will pay for the entire month's worth of supplies, which is about $30.
And because the rats are essentially paying for themselves, my snakes are eating for free (aside from my own time and effort to manage the colony. But cleaning takes about 20 minutes once a week - much faster than thawing out frozen imo)

It's just easy for me to just go to a rack, pick out what I want for feeding day then proceed to go around the rack to feed the snakes. I drop one rat in a tub and move on to the next. When I hear a rat squeal, I know a snake has it coiled. I open that tub and check to see if the snake has a good grip or not. If the feeder is in a position to bite, I just stick a chop stick in it's mouth until it passes. If a snake doesn't eat within 30 minutes, I collect the feeder and return it back to the colony to be saved for the next week. No wasted food. If a snake doesn't eat f/t, I personally wouldn't like to refreeze it. Either way though, none of my snakes take f/t. Perhaps a handful of my most aggressive feeders will MIGHT take it, but for the most part, the 90% of my ball pythons will not take f/t. And it just seems troublesome to feed half f/t and half live when I could just do one way each time.


If someone had, for example, 60+ snakes. Thawing out and zombie dancing 60+ rats would be a pain. It would take hours. I think if someone had only 2 or 3 snakes or something, f/t would be the best and cheapest. But for larger collections, live seems to be the most efficient time and cost wise.

There are pros and cons to both F/T and live. Both can be safe and equally dangerous.
But people should pick which ever method works best for them.



Some responsible live feeding tips:

1) Feed the appropriate size food. I like smaller and more frequent meals than larger and less often. Weanlings and small rats are safe and harmless(to some extent). ThThey're also not as conscious to danger as an adult would be. Adult rats can pack a nasty bite and are much stronger at fighting back, which is why "smaller and more frequent" is the way to go. I feed all of my adults weaned/small rats once a week. And multiple smalls for the big girls. A live medium size would be the max appropriate size for a ball python.

2) Keep the feeder well fed and hydrated. They're less likely to see your snake as food. Hungry rats are dangerous rats. They will eat your snake if left unattended for extended periods of time. This is the reason for most snake killing incidences.

3) Don't dangle the live feeder. This puts them in panic mode. A freaked out feeder is a dangerous feeder. Gently place the feeder into your enclosure. Calm feeders are good.

4) Monitor your feedings and keep a tool, such as tongs, on hand to assist your snake in case the feeder tries to bite down. I use a chop stick to stick in the feeder's mouth if its in a bad position.

5) Don't keep the feeder in with your snake longer than 30 mins max or so. Some people have a shorter time frame. If he doesn't eat within that time frame, take out the feeder and save it for next week.

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Originally Posted by the_yellow_pony

Still don't get how maintaining a colony of live is less of a pita than spending a little bit of time to thaw things out once a week. To each their own.

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Takes me 20 minutes or less to clean a 6 tub rack.

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In regards to safe and easy, and while I like to avoid argument, no accidents ever happening? Really? So you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that every time your animals constrict there is no room for a bite or two?

I get that it's what works for you and that's fine, but blanket statements like that are silly.

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Nothing is risk free. Even f/t.
However, there are methods to reduce that risk. (examples stated above)

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Another question, what about rats fed to quarantine animals? If they refuse to you kill off the feeder and freeze/dispose of it?

Just curious.

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Rats can come out of the same stock. But if a QT snake doesn't eat, the feeder cannot be returned to the colony. It has the possibility to contaminate the other rats, thus the rest of the snakes.
Personally, I just set up a small tub in the QT room to leave uneaten rats to be saved for next week. Or I just feed the rat to my ferrets. :\

satomi 325 has a good point, I have never thought of it that way..

I love feeding live only and have for many thousands of feedings with no issues except a few minor bites that healed right up.

It wouldn't surprise me that if you took a 1000 snake example and tracked them over a 2-3 year period from hatchling on up you would find "on average" that live feeders eat more consistently and are larger at 2 years old than F/T eaters.

It's easier/faster. I feed some of my f/t because my rat colony can't keep up with how many rats I have, but most of my snakes get live. Injuries don't happen as often as you think if you follow the right precautions. In 5 years of feeding live I've only had 1 bite that I cleaned and I put ointment on to be on the safe side.

Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.:)

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Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.:)

I can imagine breeding your own rats would be more efficient if you have a big collection of snakes to feed. I actually bred my own rats, but it wasn't really necessary since I only have 4 snakes atm. Got a HUGE overload of rats I eventually had to put in the freezer, which means I had to feed F/T anyway. If you have a good ventilation rat room, rat racks and many snakes, feeding live may be something for you.

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Originally Posted by piedmad

Some interesting and varied replies guys, thanks. Just like to say, i dont quite get this "zombie dancing". I'm lucky if I actually get it in the tub before they smash it. I suposse we find it "strange" most of you guys feed live because live feeding over here is seen as not neccesary unless thats all they will take and its kinda frowned upon if anyone feeds live just because they can, plus we can be prosecuted in some cases if they think the prey animal has suffered in any way.Also no pet shop by law can sell you a live vertebrate for a live food item for another animal. I also dont buy the "its what they eat in the wild" as they dont get water bowls with nice clean water in the wild either, or a nice clean heated tub/viv to live in, in the wild. Any 1 live prey can seriously damage your snake in 1 second or 1 hour, personally i have no need to take the risk of potentially harming my animals. Not saying live feeding is wrong, just it really is not neccesary most of the time, but if you are happy to feed live, thats all that matters really. But thanks for your replies makes things a lot clearer.:)

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I guess I will never be moving to England like I have considered, crazy that its illegal to sell live feeders. It seems common practice here in Germany, or at least with the group of breeders I know, to feed live. My monitor gets live, my snakes get live, my cat gets frozen thawed chicks, because, well, feeding live to a cat would not be so nice, since they play with their food. I would waste so many frozen thawed if thats what I fed. Some of my snakes will take 2 or 3 mice or rats one week, then only 1 the next or none. Now that its winter half of them are not eating at all. I still offer, and what then, that animals life went to waste when I have to throw it in the trash because it was not eaten. I think that is far more sad than the little a rodent might suffer while being constricted and eaten.

And to this question I will ask why not?

Sure this all gonna turn into yet another live vs f/t debate (pretty sure) but the bottom line is that is done properly and responsibly both can be done safely just like if not done responsibly both can be dangerous, yes even f/t.

to me feeding is about being knowledgeable responsible and feeding what work best for your animal and what is convenient for you.

I used to feed f/t exclusively when I had 10 snakes or less and was not yet breeding, at the time I did not wish to breed feeder and with a small collection it was not much of a hassle.

Now with the size of my collection and the fact that I hatch snakes I feed live most exclusively, it is convenient and very cost effective since I breed my own feeders it is also very important for me to have live available since I breed snakes.

The key with feeding live is to feed rodents that are not over-sized, well hydrated and well fed prior to being fed and remove any un-eaten rodents within 20 minutes.

I do still feed a few f/t to some animals that will take it but that's only if I have surplus of rats during the winter (this way no waste).

Thats the UK for ya. You can breed your own to feed live(although its frowned upon unless thats all they will take, then you are to be seen as "keeping the snake alive" which is ok. If you own a pet shop and have a pet shop licence you are not allowed by law to sell a live mouse or rat etc knowing it is going to be fed to another animal live.Obviously crickets etc dont count(dont know why, they are still a living creature) So yeah its a bit strange here.

There really was not any live v F/T point in the thread. AS being in the Uk F/T is what most do, so i just wondered why things are different across the pond.Obviously you have different laws and regulations to us.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by piedmad

Thats the UK for ya. You can breed your own to feed live(although its frowned upon unless thats all they will take, then you are to be seen as "keeping the snake alive" which is ok. If you own a pet shop and have a pet shop licence you are not allowed by law to sell a live mouse or rat etc knowing it is going to be fed to another animal live.Obviously crickets etc dont count(dont know why, they are still a living creature) So yeah its a bit strange here.

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I'm not sure that's true - I know most of the chainstores won't do it but I'm not sure it is actually illegal.

You can't sell any animal before it has been weaned legally ( which seems to be considered 6 weeks for everything. :rolleyes: ) though.


dr del

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Originally Posted by piedmad

There really was not any live v F/T point in the thread. AS being in the Uk F/T is what most do, so i just wondered why things are different across the pond.Obviously you have different laws and regulations to us.

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There is nothing in the law (Animals Protection Acts http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/27) in the UK mentioning that it is ILLEGAL to feed live, I believe that over the years people (Animal Group Rights :rolleyes:) have discouraged owners to do so and somehow they have succeeded to do so however as far as being illegal unless the law has changed I cannot find anything about this.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,



I'm not sure that's true - I know most of the chainstores won't do it but I'm not sure it is actually illegal.

You can't sell any animal before it has been weaned legally ( which seems to be considered 6 weeks for everything. :rolleyes: ) though.


dr del

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Originally Posted by Deborah

There is nothing in the law (Animals Protection Acts http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/27) in the UK mentioning that it is ILLEGAL to feed live, I believe that over the years people (Animal Group Rights :rolleyes:) have discouraged owners to do so and somehow they have succeeded to do so however as far as being illegal unless the law has changed I cannot find anything about this.

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According to 2 rep shop/pet shop owners it is in their licencing laws, I once asked for a live mouse for a stubborn feeder but as the shop owner knew me(as i got my frozen there) he point blank refused as he said if he got caught selling me a live for my snake he would get shut down.