Do pet stores help or hurt the snake hobby?

Im wondering what you all think about pet stores and snakes. There are alot of great breeders out there that produce amazing and healthy animals but what about the pet stores who sell snakes but dont know anything about them? I got my normal male from some crappy little pet store and i didnt go in there to buy a bp i just needed change for a 10 and I saw they had a ball python.He was NOT in shed yet his skin was loose and wrinlky.The temperature according to the thermometer was 72 degrees. When i asked how often the snake ate the owner very confidently told me that he only NEEDED to eat about once a month. It broke my heart to hear this and i had to get him out of there. Since ive had him he has not refused a meal. I feed every saturday. Im not saying all pet stores are like this but ive been to several and they dont seem to know how to ideally care for a bp. Just wondering how other people felt on the subject.

Have yet to be in one that knows what they're doing. Even reptile speciality stores.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Have yet to be in one that knows what they're doing. Even reptile speciality stores.

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Thats what im saying. They are in it for profit and dont really care about the animal enough to learn its basic needs

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Have yet to be in one that knows what they're doing. Even reptile speciality stores.

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I actually have found one! Right here in my town. They keep all their BPs in a rack with heattape and a thermostat. They havent had mites the 5 years I have known them and I was told that if they do all their snakes get taken off the shelves and everything gets cleaned and treated.

Their Tarantulas are spectacular, fish are perfect, small animals are A+ and all their other reptiles are great too.

Only down side is that I find them a tad pricey.

I am really impressed by these guys.

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Originally Posted by reptiliachnids

I actually have found one! Right here in my town. They keep all their BPs in a rack with heattape and a thermostat. They havent had mites the 5 years I have known them and I was told that if they do all their snakes get taken off the shelves and everything gets cleaned and treated.

Their Tarantulas are spectacular, fish are perfect, small animals are A+ and all their other reptiles are great too.

Only down side is that I find them a tad pricey.

I am really impressed by these guys.

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I wish there was a store like that around here

the pet stores hear are only pet smart and pet co ( pet co got shut down for not treating their animals well. they had like 20 snakes in the same cage when i went there ) Pet smart charged $80 for a normal ball. they had chameleon in tiny cages. :(

I got my female almost breeding size bumblebee from a reptile specialty store. Yes, I made sure she's a female.

When I picked her up she was freezing. She's finally filling out. They had her eating 2 adult mice once every two weeks. I haven't weighed her lately, but last time I did she was only about 20g away from being 1500g.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/02/vu6egybe.jpg

What gets me laughing is how they're selling HET CLOWNS. I don't know, but I wouldn't buy a het off of a pet store.

Unfortunately, in just about any retail situation, knowledge is not a requirement for employment. It's just a really sad situation when animals are involved.

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Originally Posted by Tfpets

Unfortunately, in just about any retail situation, knowledge is not a requirement for employment. It's just a really sad situation when animals are involved.

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Exactly. How are people going to ever get educated about snakes and reptiles in general if pet stores either dont have information for the public or worst when they give bad information.

Being a PetsMart employee I'm on the front lines of introducing new people to the reptile trade. In the last 4 months I've assisted nearly a dozen people into the world of ball pythons. I make sure they have everything they'll need, offer tips and advice, and write down this website for them to learn more. I also include info on our local reptile shows. I've even found some of my customers at the shows and they thank me for all my help. I know my store is going great things for the trade. If it weren't for high profile stores like mine people would never know about the joys of keeping reptiles. They would just go get their dog food from Wal-Mart and zombie on . . .

I hope to own my own reptile/exotic pet store one day so I hope that when that time comes it won't hurt the the snake hobby that I'm passionate about so much. I think if a store is clean, has knowledgeable staff, takes care of their animals, and has good customer service (among so many other factors) it can actually be a positive to the hobby by getting new people into it.

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGuy

Being a PetsMart employee I'm on the front lines of introducing new people to the reptile trade. In the last 4 months I've assisted nearly a dozen people into the world of ball pythons. I make sure they have everything they'll need, offer tips and advice, and write down this website for them to learn more. I also include info on our local reptile shows. I've even found some of my customers at the shows and they thank me for all my help. I know my store is going great things for the trade. If it weren't for high profile stores like mine people would never know about the joys of keeping reptiles. They would just go get their dog food from Wal-Mart and zombie on . . .

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I am glad there is some people who care but for the most part there are not alot of people like you at pet stores. Ive personally never met one.

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Originally Posted by Gerardo

I am glad there is some people who care but for the most part there are not alot of people like you at pet stores. Ive personally never met one.

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Thats absolutely true. I hope you can do that someday. CORRECT information is a HUGE factor to this hobby continuing to grow.

Thanks for the write ups. My username here is straight from the nickname I was given at work.

Customer asks a question-
"I'm not sure, let me get my snake guy to answer it for you."
Radio call to me. . . .:)

We have 2 good pet stores one bad one. The good ones are whities and Taylor's reptiles. Both have awesome snakes in a clean rack. BUT whities sells savannah monitors which I hate

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

We have 2 good pet stores one bad one. The good ones are whities and Taylor's reptiles. Both have awesome snakes in a clean rack. BUT whities sells savannah monitors which I hate

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Why does it matter if they sell monitors?

I think to answer the op's question, pet stores do help the industry. Whether or not they take care of their animals, they still spread the word. Most people would not know about this type of community with out specifically searching for it on the internet, or going to a pet store. I bought my first corn from a petsmart because I didn't even know you could buy online, let alone that there was such a thing as reptile shows.

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Originally Posted by Andrew21

Why does it matter if they sell monitors?

I think to answer the op's question, pet stores do help the industry. Whether or not they take care of their animals, they still spread the word. Most people would not know about this type of community with out specifically searching for it on the internet, or going to a pet store. I bought my first corn from a petsmart because I didn't even know you could buy online, let alone that there was such a thing as reptile shows.

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You are right about that. Alot of people meet snakes for the first fime at pet stores. I just wish employees were better prepared to educate people.

I personally do t think that any person walking into a pet store is ready to care for a sav, I mean they have them in a barely okay setup.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

I got my female almost breeding size bumblebee from a reptile specialty store. Yes, I made sure she's a female.

When I picked her up she was freezing. She's finally filling out. They had her eating 2 adult mice once every two weeks. I haven't weighed her lately, but last time I did she was only about 20g away from being 1500g.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/02/vu6egybe.jpg

What gets me laughing is how they're selling HET CLOWNS. I don't know, but I wouldn't buy a het off of a pet store.

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Thats really great. I love watching them grow

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

I personally do t think that any person walking into a pet store is ready to care for a sav, I mean they have them in a barely okay setup.

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Mighty big hat you got on there bucko, you always worn em that size?

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

I personally do t think that any person walking into a pet store is ready to care for a sav, I mean they have them in a barely okay setup.

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Yeah, but how many people start out by walking into petco NOT expecting to buy a snake, but do anyways cause they happen to have a spare fish tank it can "live" in. I realize a sav would take a lot more of a setup and have more specific needs but my point still stands.

I'm not saying that it is bad to sell larger animals but the average joe that walks into a petstore buys the cute little lizard that has pretty insane requirements is crazy. One thing to spontaneously buy a Leo or bp. But a sav is another lever. No matter what people say I will stick to large petstores don't need to sell monitors, iguanas, burms, etc. Only responsible breeders and well prepared future owners and good owners should. My .02 take it or leave it. Anyways this is off topic so continue on...

I'd love to see a pet store with a full grown savannah monitor on display. There is a pretty good specialty store in a city about 1 1/2 hours south of me that I used to go to once in a while for live feeders. They had some pretty awesome dart frog displays, and generally had solid care information available for customers. I wish they had more snake stuff, but that's just my preference :P

While I don't like how Petco and Petsmart care for their reptiles (generally, great to know there are good ones!) I would rather try and change company policy or help educate the staff than write off pet stores as a bad thing. There are some pretty twisted individuals who keep animals in MUCH less than desirable (or habitable) conditions, but for every ridiculous craigslist post and crap pet store I hear about I know 3 awesome keepers who have healthy loved pets at home (and work, sometimes ;) ). Many of them purchase their first snake or lizard at one of the main chain stores, and I keep canned replies in my email now with breeder and resource recommendations :rolleyes:

It really does all depend on the employees. My local shop (Birds and Beasts, love them) focuses mostly on tropical fish and birds. They raise their own birds from hatchlings, I've never seen such big healthy looking parakeets anywhere else. All their birds get social time. They have a great saltwater section, and they keep some herps and tarantulas too. They occasionally have chameleons, in proper caging - albeit a little plain but that's understandable for ease of care/cleaning and so customers can actually see them. They take in a lot of surrendered animals too, pretty much any mammal in that store was a surrender that is up for adoption.

I do wish that a basic level of knowledge was required to be hired at a pet shop, but then I also like people having the opportunity to learn on the job. I got a job at a specialty fish store after hovering around for months and getting a guppy tank (they were joking about charging me rent, I was there so often). I learned so much about different fish while I was working there, but when I started out all I knew was basic tank set up and care for only a couple of types of freshwater fish. I just wish that more stores would try and hire the sort of person who WANTS to learn about the animals they'll be working with, instead of somebody who'll just show up and do what they have to.

The pet store I go to for feeders keeps their animals in display tanks but the employees are always cleaning, watering, and/or refilling food bowls every time I go in lol. They're always friendly and interested in the reptiles I own, and it's just a good time to get rodents. I can't ask for more. Perhaps if they brought me a drink once in a while :P.

Compared to the pet store I used to go to.... Rude lady is always on the phone, cussing out loud, rolls her eyes when I ask for rodents.. I go in and feel bad for bothering them, opposed to going in and feeling welcomed like a friend.. The animals seemed clean, but I don't care for that kind of attitude :colbert:.

I would say to expect every store on the planet to have every snake/reptile/animal in an absolutely perfect environment is doable but expensive. Keeping a proper number for sale and healthy keeping is a tuff balance and a line often crossed for profit. Knowledgeable empoyees are a huge benefit and a good owner would employ only those but not all owners are good. I wont bad mouth a pet shop if i see one animal with a bad shed or one has a dirty water bowl. Mention it to the employees and see how they handle it. Make your decision by educateing yourself on the establishment. Walking in the door and seeing a few snakes in each cage and saying your a deplorable pet shop isnt always a good practice. Though i dont agree with how most pet shops keep their animals i will say if they are Healthy, in clean conditions and the employee's seem responsible and somewhat informed. I will go the next step at asking more questions and go from there. One local pet shop is a bit crowded IMO on animals but the owners take in a lot of rescues and lead the herp society out here, and never once have i been in there where 3 or more employees arent cleaning out cages. They are very knowledgeable and though their shop isnt picture perfect i havent had any issues with the feeders i get there regularly. A couple of their employees are new and learning as they go but their main employees are all breeders themselves of the various species sold and are more then willing to help. If i had walked in and walked right back out i would never have learned any of that and would never have entered into snake ownership myself. This is my 2 cents worth.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Mighty big hat you got on there bucko, you always worn em that size?

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You know wilomn, insulting a kid over a forum is what quite frankly makes me use Facebook more than forums. It is one thing for you to disagree with me and state your opinion. After all, that is what these things are for. But name calling and childish insults would be expected from a new member not an established respected one like yourself. Honestly, this is why our hobby is in such a mess; we can band together and fight for our rights. So what are we doing bickering like children? So I'll leave it at this; please state your opposing opinion in a respectful, adult way. Dont insult kids over the Internet and we can have a healthy discussion and eventually come to a mutual agreement. That is all

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

You know wilomn, insulting a kid over a forum is what quite frankly makes me use Facebook more than forums. It is one thing for you to disagree with me and state your opinion. After all, that is what these things are for. But name calling and childish insults would be expected from a new member not an established respected one like yourself. Honestly, this is why our hobby is in such a mess; we can band together and fight for our rights. So what are we doing bickering like children? So I'll leave it at this; please state your opposing opinion in a respectful, adult way. Dont insult kids over the Internet and we can have a healthy discussion and eventually come to a mutual agreement. That is all

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Hey kid, go stuff yourself. YOU have opinions with which I disagree. I am not, nor is anyone, obligated to be nice to you when you say stupid things. How about YOU edit yourself so I don't have to? Want to shove your inexperienced opinions down the throats of others? Be prepared for some to say no thanks. I'm not bickering, I'm mocking and being sarcastic.

We've got quite a few horrible pet stores here, but we've also got a few really good ones. The owners personally breed balls and other herps and the employees are knowledgeable. One of our local Petsmarts the reptile department manager is definitely very knowledgeable and I see him at some of the shows. I think it just depends on how the store is run and the knowledge of the owner and employees.
Imo in a retail situation where the product is a living thing, you can't put profit first over all else, the animal's well beings should be above all else.

I have nothing to add here. I just wanted to ask what the OP has been doing since his one-hit wonder song "Rico Suave" back in the 90's.

Having worked at a Petsmart, I know that some employees can be truly knowledgeable and concerned with giving pets proper care. However, experience has also taught me that employees can have no idea what they are talking about and still be very good at SOUNDING like they do. I have seen way too many people authoritatively give entirely the wrong information to well meaning pet owners. This is IMO the biggest (arguably solveable) pet store problem.

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Originally Posted by jschwe

Having worked at a Petsmart, I know that some employees can be truly knowledgeable and concerned with giving pets proper care. However, experience has also taught me that employees can have no idea what they are talking about and still be very good at SOUNDING like they do. I have seen way too many people authoritatively give entirely the wrong information to well meaning pet owners. This is IMO the biggest (arguably solveable) pet store problem.

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I agree. When I went to Petco to get a small water bowl for the babies I received a while back, I told them I use paper towels and keep them in tubs with heat tape. The guy told me that snakes need to burrow so I should buy aspen bedding. Then the guy told me that they need a "basking hot spot" so I'll need a heat lamp as well. He didn't try to sell me a fish tank to go with the heat lamp. Maybe he just didn't really listen to the response I gave him about using tubs lol. Or maybe he didn't know what that meant :P.

To answer the original question about whether pet stores hurt or help the snake hobby, I don't think there's a definite answer. Not all of them are the same, much like not all breeders are the same. Some are filled with REALLY knowledgeable people who care about the animals and dedicated a lot of time to learning about them. Some have folks who barely know anything about an animal outside of what they read in the company care sheet. There are people who breed reptiles or claim to breed them who sell sick, deformed, mite-infested, or injured snakes without warning. You can't lump them all into one category due to the diversity.

To the OP, giving your money to the pet store who kept your new snake in poor conditions merely opened space for another animal to live in the same conditions. Buying the snake allows the cycle to continue. Kudos for giving him a proper home though :gj:. At least 1 snake will enjoy a good warm home to himself :P.

The ball pythons at my local petco have visable mites and very bad sheds. And the petsmart near me feeds their large hatchlings pinkie mice. They really have no clue how to care for reptiles and their employees have the nerve to say i shouldnt own snakes because i keep them in racks.

My local petco had crickets in the cages of their ball pythons and red tails...

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Originally Posted by Coleslaw007

We've got quite a few horrible pet stores here, but we've also got a few really good ones. The owners personally breed balls and other herps and the employees are knowledgeable. One of our local Petsmarts the reptile department manager is definitely very knowledgeable and I see him at some of the shows. I think it just depends on how the store is run and the knowledge of the owner and employees.
Imo in a retail situation where the product is a living thing, you can't put profit first over all else, the animal's well beings should be above all else.

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I agree 100% but thats not always the case. My bp had a respiratory infection and scale rot when i "rescued" him from that pet store.