Are ALL Spider morphs carry those goofy genetic traits?

Back again with another question. "I LOVE this site."

My Spider boy does have slight issues. Head pointed upward at times, balled up with head inverted, then normally does his roaming around and sleeping on top of his hide. I have heard of worse things reported.
Do ALL Spider Morphs carry this goofy trait? Regardless, I will NOT BREED HIM. Period. He will always be my baby boy, for educational purposes.

Thanks,
Suz:taz::rolleye2:

1.0 Spider Baby "Fester"
1.0 Lemon pastel Baby "Gomez"
0.1 Lemon pastel Baby "Mortisha"
0.1 Normal Juve "Lily"
0.1 Red Corn Snake Breeder female - 16 years old "Bruchetta"
1 Red Oscar "Zeppo"

Anything containing the spider gene will display spider traits....other genes will not overpower it.

I believe so. My boyfriends bumblebee (pastel spider) does a lot of those motions


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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Anything containing the spider gene will display spider traits....other genes will not overpower it.

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Exactly.

And as long as the "wobble" isn't terrible, there's no reason why you couldn't breed him.

There's no getting away from it.. The severity is random in offspring isn't it?

IMO they all have it but to different extents

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Anything containing the spider gene will display spider traits....other genes will not overpower it.

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

IMO they all have it but to different extents

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Yep yep :gj:!

My spider, killerbee, and stinger all have a wobble and act dinky :P. i have only seen a few spiders who don't display MUCH of a wobble, but that doesn't mean they will produce wobble-less spiders :gj:

Yep, my Bumblebee stargazes a bit, and wobbles when going in for the kill. It really doesnt bother you after a while, it's just what they do.

I was told by 2 breeders at a reptile show that a way to help reduce the wobble is to incubate your spider gene eggs a couple degrees below normal. Anyone else heard/done this? Any truth to it?

Well my brother has a Spider but he really doesn't have much head wobble. I know some have it really bad and others not as bad.

I soooooo appreciate all the responses. The fact that once Morphing does occur, things just happen as it goes. I still will NOT BREED him. Thanks once again.:P

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Originally Posted by twoyrbrat

I soooooo appreciate all the responses. The fact that once Morphing does occur, things just happen as it goes. I still will NOT BREED him. Thanks once again.:P

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Good for you! I refuse to even OWN a Spider or any of their tainted morphs...!!!

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGuy

I was told by 2 breeders at a reptile show that a way to help reduce the wobble is to incubate your spider gene eggs a couple degrees below normal. Anyone else heard/done this? Any truth to it?

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Temperature has nothing to do with the wobble in spider genes.

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Good for you! I refuse to even OWN a Spider or any of their tainted morphs...!!!

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Good. More for me ;)

There is nothing wrong with keeping spider genes. I love my bee, she is the sweetest of my balls, and an excellent eater. I love her to pieces! Don't let the wobble stop you if you like them.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Good. More for me ;)

There is nothing wrong with keeping spider genes. I love my bee, she is the sweetest of my balls, and an excellent eater. I love her to pieces! Don't let the wobble stop you if you like them.

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Have them. Have them all! I prefer health over cosmetics, any day. Would you buy a horse, dog, cat, fish, bird, ANYTHING that acted like that? Doubt it. It's ALL about the paint jobs and the $$$$$.....I'm done. Name your next one Michael J. Fox, for all I care. :rofl:

They all have issues.. It don't seem to bother a lot of people but it is the reason I will never own one..

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Have them. Have them all! I prefer health over cosmetics, any day. Would you buy a horse, dog, cat, fish, bird, ANYTHING that acted like that? Doubt it. It's ALL about the paint jobs and the $$$$$.....I'm done. Name your next one Michael J. Fox, for all I care. :rofl:

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So people shouldn't breed dogs that can have genetic problems? Like for example, German Shepherds and their hips? Whatever. To each their own. You don't like them, I don't care.

And no, its not about money. I'm not even breeding yet, and when I do it is only going to be to produce things that I want, not to make a business of it.

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Name your next one Michael J. Fox, for all I care. :rofl:

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The spider gene is what it is, people breed all kinds of animals with issues, maybe it's not for you but making fun of Michael J Fox, that's in very poor taste

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Have them. Have them all! I prefer health over cosmetics, any day. Would you buy a horse, dog, cat, fish, bird, ANYTHING that acted like that? Doubt it. It's ALL about the paint jobs and the $$$$$.....I'm done. Name your next one Michael J. Fox, for all I care. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The spider gene is what it is, people breed all kinds of animals with issues, maybe it's not for you but making fun of Michael J Fox, that's in very poor taste

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i think he was trying to make a point.
and i totally agree with it. why continue breeding the morph knowing its going to produce hatchlings with health issues??
just my 2 cents ;)

I didn't say I didn't agree but the example is in very poor taste ...

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Yep yep :gj:!

My spider, killerbee, and stinger all have a wobble and act dinky :P. i have only seen a few spiders who don't display MUCH of a wobble, but that doesn't mean they will produce wobble-less spiders :gj:

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very true, as I never seen it in my first spider male and I had him from hatchling until he was over 1700 grams. I know the breeder who has him now and still no signs of a wobble. but many of his offsprings had it. the spider has one of the coolest patterns. don't let the wobble keep you from getting one. you will get use to it. I heard that some wobbles as a very young snake and gets less with age and some don't show it until they're at an adult size.

im sure theres other morphs with genetic issues but what are they?

where would i be able to see a list of them if possible?

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Originally Posted by bx718

im sure theres other morphs with genetic issues but what are they?

where would i be able to see a list of them if possible?

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Female deserts don't reproduce, carmels can have kinking issues, some supers have bug eyes...

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGuy

I was told by 2 breeders at a reptile show that a way to help reduce the wobble is to incubate your spider gene eggs a couple degrees below normal. Anyone else heard/done this? Any truth to it?

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So...these breeders maintain a spider-only incubator? :rolleyes: I'm not saying you weren't told this, just that it seems a little silly.

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Originally Posted by bx718

i think he was trying to make a point.
and i totally agree with it. why continue breeding the morph knowing its going to produce hatchlings with health issues??
just my 2 cents ;)

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Since when is the spider wobble a "health issue"? My spider combos all eat, gain weight, and thrive as well as or better than my other BPs. It's just a slightly different mannerism.

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

So...these breeders maintain a spider-only incubator? :rolleyes: I'm not saying you weren't told this, just that it seems a little silly.



Since when is the spider wobble a "health issue"? My spider combos all eat, gain weight, and thrive as well as or better than my other BPs. It's just a slightly different mannerism.

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Absolutely, me bee is thriving. She's a year and a half, 1600 grams, good eater, sheds great, super sweet. She is the one we take for school visits. She has no "health issues", she's perfectly healthy.

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i meant genetic issues @annarose15 :oops:

im pretty sure they do well but i wouldnt want to see my ball with a wobble

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Originally Posted by bx718

i meant genetic issues @annarose15 :oops:

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Again I ask - Why is it an issue? Are otherwise-healthy chihuahuas defective because they shiver when they are excited/stressed? Aside from chihuahuas not being real dogs, of course. ;)

its an issue because theres something wrong with their genetics
other balls dont wobble their head because everything is sound

when breeders breed morphs and some come neuro issues or health problems or physical abnormalities that most balls dont have then thats where the problem or issues lie because their letting money be on top of everything else instead of owrrying about the animal be it a snake or chihuahua or anything else because this happens with other species to as you pointed out...

but don't get me wrong i love how spider morphs looks just like everyone else and i dont want to come off as saying NOBODY should own a spider morph but I wouldn't want to own one just because if i do sometime in the future want to breed i dont want to produce anything that isnt breeding quality in my opinion.

I also do not own spiders anymore, or spider combos. I will also avoid womas and woma combos, as it has now become known that woma ball pythons wobble just like spiders do...come meet my woma male who wobbles lol...(I got him before I knew they wobble, he was my attempt to have a non wobbly spider like snake) He will find a pet only home someday

He is fine otherwise, but I cannot bring myself to breed something that 100% of its offspring will carry the same issue. Since we are not sure yet how far the woma wobble really goes, I can only assume it will end up being very similar as it is with spiders.

It is different with caramels, BELs, all the others....as not 100% of offspring come out with the issue, perfect examples of those animals are made all the time. It isn't like that with spiders....they all wobble, no matter how much someone wants to deny that theirs does lol.

I would never tell someone they should not breed spiders, nor would I ever say spiders don't make stunning combos

but I have dealt with the spider wobble on many different degrees....and I just cant stand it

I DO NOT find it cute, charming, or amusing to watch....at all....

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Originally Posted by Annarose15

Aside from chihuahuas not being real dogs, of course. ;)

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Awww. You don't think she's a real dog? :(
She's a purebred long haired chi.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...101_135124.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...93207317_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Awww. You don't think she's a real dog? :(
She's a purebred long haired chi.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...101_135124.jpg

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Very cute, yes. Real dog...idk ;)

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Im glad there is all of this proven researched based factual scientific information floating around concerning spider genetics ah and lets not forget the woma as well. Oh I forgot to mention how long has it been now that spider genes have been thriving now??

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We had a clutch of 5. The dad has wobble not that bad but you can see it. 3 of the babies has the spider gene, and only one show wobble and he is having it big time, and the other two has no sign of wobble. I don't think that incubation has to do with anything.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Very cute, yes. Real dog...idk ;)

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I'm with the Doo on this one. After all, which animal in my lap more closely resembles your pic? ;-)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/02/une4u6e2.jpg

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I didn't say I didn't agree but the example is in very poor taste ...

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Hey, do not get all PC on me. You know exactly what I meant by that. Flush that PC diarrhea. Don't turn the issue around on me because of an off-colored joke.

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Originally Posted by bx718

i meant genetic issues @annarose15 :oops:

im pretty sure they do well but i wouldnt want to see my ball with a wobble

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So, uncontrollable body twisting and missed prey strikes are normal and/or healthy?? Yes or no?

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

Im glad there is all of this proven researched based factual scientific information floating around concerning spider genetics ah and lets not forget the woma as well. Oh I forgot to mention how long has it been now that spider genes have been thriving now??

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Defend it all you want. It is sick and many people agree. Kick me out of this group, I dont give a monkeys uncle. The fact remains, those Spiders aren't right. Otherwise ALL snakes would be doing it, wouldn't they???!!!! They wouldn't last 5 mins. in their native African region. Humans playing God, that's all it is. Period. toddle off, delete me Admins. Now!

People breed Great Danes when they have lots of health issues/concerns AND only have like half (if that) the lifespan of any other dog out there. Bulldogs can't even give birth normally; they have to have C-sections to birth the pups. Dachshunds are very prone to spinal injuries due to their elongated backs. Chihuahuas (and other toy breeds) commonly suffer from collapsed trachea and displaced kneecaps.

But people love them, so they'll keep breeding them. And it's the same with Spider Balls; just because they have issues, doesn't mean that majority of them can't lead just as normal a life as any other snake.


And @satomi325: Don't listen to the haters! Some of the smallest dogs I know are more of a "real dog" than those 5 times their size! I used to own a Pitbull (one of the "scariest", "manliest", "most bada$$" breeds to own) and he got bullied ALL THE TIME by the Pug and Chihuahua my boyfriends' parents owned.

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Hey, do not get all PC on me. You know exactly what I meant by that. Flush that PC diarrhea. Don't turn the issue around on me because of an off-colored joke.

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Defend it all you want. It is sick and many people agree. Kick me out of this group, I dont give a monkeys uncle. The fact remains, those Spiders aren't right. Otherwise ALL snakes would be doing it, wouldn't they???!!!! They wouldn't last 5 mins. in their native African region. Humans playing God, that's all it is. Period. toddle off, delete me Admins. Now!

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Why all the hate and swearing?


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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Defend it all you want. It is sick and many people agree. Kick me out of this group, I dont give a monkeys uncle. The fact remains, those Spiders aren't right. Otherwise ALL snakes would be doing it, wouldn't they???!!!! They wouldn't last 5 mins. in their native African region. Humans playing God, that's all it is. Period. toddle off, delete me Admins. Now!

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Wow hope I didnt cause you to throw your little temper tantrum tisk tisk. My reply was based on facts and knowledge from breeding ball pythons and being in this industry for sometime now. Unlike your opinions that have the very definitive twirling sounds of wind blowing out of your sphincter (that means ass incase its too big of a word for you).

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To the OP. You'll need to understand that all spider's wobble to one degree or the other. I've hatched my share and own more that a few spiders and spider combo's. I understand when people choose not to work with that morph, its one of the great things about this hobby is that there are so many different morphs out there that you're sure to find something that will wet your whistle. I don't take offense on a personal or professional level when people say they have apprehensions with working with the morph its their right and I'll support it 100% because I can point you to over 70 other morphs that have nothing to do with the spider morph that might strike your fancy. The other thing to remember is that we are specifically breeding genetic deformity's and with some of these deformity's there might be something other than a pigment difference that is tied with the gene and to be honest we might now like it from a reproducible standpoint; ie Super HGW, Deserts, Supper lessers, Supper Cinni's , Caramels ect. What were starting to see is that alot of these morphs have just that little tweaks that we're just seeing or finding in the primordial soup.

Me I love spiders and all the things they make. Hell I even like Deserts and you seen the combo's ;)

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Defend it all you want. It is sick and many people agree. Kick me out of this group, I dont give a monkeys uncle. The fact remains, those Spiders aren't right. Otherwise ALL snakes would be doing it, wouldn't they???!!!! They wouldn't last 5 mins. in their native African region. Humans playing God, that's all it is. Period. toddle off, delete me Admins. Now!

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Someone got their patties in a bunch :rofl::rofl:
Gotta love it when grown adults throw themselves on the floor and kick and scream like a 3 year old that just dropped their ice cream cone in the sand, happy new years!!!

And don't forget..........Weebles Wobble but they don't fall down :gj:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

And don't forget..........Weebles Wobble but they don't fall down :gj:

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LMAO...:p

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All morphs are physically and genetically abnormal. That's the whole point of breeding them. Whether the abnormality is expressed as a pattern, color, or actual physical difference from a "normal" or wild type animal, when you start selectively breeding for specific traits, you are creating an "abnormal" animal. Yes, some spiders exhibit a wobble so severe that thy would never be able to survive in the wild. Ones with a mild wobble would probably do o.k.

The first spiders ever imported were wild caught. So obviously they are able to survive in the wild to a certain extent. But no one is breeding spiders for the purpose of releasing them into the wild, so who cares if they may not hit their prey the first time? It's not like the prey is going very far. Yes, you get some with wobbles bad enough that they can't survive, but whenever you get involved with breeding, or even in the wild, you are going to get babies who were never meant to survive. That's part of life. It would be one thing if people bred spiders knowing that the vast majority don't live a quality life, but the reality is that the vast majority of them do fine.

I would imagine, however, that very few albino or BEL BPs that occur naturally survive into adulthood in the wild, due to lack of camouflage.

If you choose to breed for any trait, or choose to breed at all, we are all playing God. If you choose to keep animals of any kind, you are playing God. If anyone thinks they are somehow better or more responisble breeders because they choose to not breed an animal with a little wiggle but jumps at the chance to breed a bright yellow monstrosity that would be spotted and eaten within a week of hatching in the jungle, you are fooling yourself.

I do believe that Skirtinthedirt said what I was thinking better then I could have :gj::gj:

Well, I'm awaiting my 4th ball python, a spider morph. My best friend has a few spiders with a bad wobble to very little wobble and out of his 100 ball pythons they eat and breed the best. He also says their personality is very different compared to his other snakes. Im not saying this is true for all spiders, but a majority of people love their spider ball pythons and all the combos they make and how well they thrive. Ive yet to hear of a spider who died in captivity from the wobble. It could be neurological, a inner ear problem, or i even heard its from their light eye pigment. But this morph was proven out from a wild ball python, so obviously they were doing fine in the wild and still are in captivity. Its YOUR choice not to own one, but many people enjoy their spiders and spider morphs as myself. Im not going to get rid of my french bull dog because they cannot breed without assistance, or not own many of the toy dog breeds with a shorter muzzle which the WHOLE breed had breathing problems? I feel like the wobble is similar to soecific dog breeds and the breeds specific health problems.

if you breed a spider with another morph will it stop the "wobble"???

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Originally Posted by bx718

if you breed a spider with another morph will it stop the "wobble"???

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No, it will not mask the wobble, it will still be present. You may never see the wobble present, or it may have a pretty noticable wobble its whole life. Could also get better or worse as the snake grows but never going away completely.

I'm more of a reader here than a poster...BUT...

I am seeing quite a few folks comparing dogs to the Spider morph snakes. Now, if I understand correctly, the Spider's issues are neurlogical correct?

The shortened lifespan of large breed dogs.....brachycephalic dogs.....dogs that shake when they are cold because they are so tiny....hip dysplasia that occurs in larger breed at times....

These are not neurologic issues we are talking about in the dogs. Now say someone was breeding a breed of dog (since everyone is using dogs as a comparison for some reason), that all came out with neurological problems. Say they all walked around with a head tilt, missed their feed bowl when trying to eat, stumbles sideways when trying to walk......would that be 'okay'? Would that be as accepted by society?Just food for thought.

Neurological issues are one thing, but lifespans and physical issues that arise are not the same. Apples to oranges.

Now HERE is a prefect example of a neurolgical issue in a specific breed of dog. See how it's different when you see a neurological condition in a dog vs a snake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm17MesMFRc