a few observations

so a couple things ive observed while keeping ball pythons for the last 9 years:
ball pythons seem to be semi-arboreal, especially juveniles. idk how far they'd venture up a tree in the wild but in captivity they do climb and hang out on branches so im not so sure these 6 in. tall rubbermaids in "racks" are the best. i think they could and would utilize a bush to hunt from. i have a good picture supporting this. ill see if i can post it later.

also, they're very gentle snakes. even to other snakes. ive recently been forced to house a hatchling(a rescue of sorts) with an adult bp and the two seem to keep to their own. the bigger snake doesnt try to assert dominance, although i do place bark to where the hatchling can squeeze places the adult cant. needless to say the hatchling hasnt been eaten in the last few months.

Did you qt the rescue?
You shouldn't be housing bps together, unless you have a lot of reptile experience. But even then, I'd want the snakes to be equally sized.

And bps have been known to catch birds. I've seen skip talk about it before

Thank you for your observation, I'm sure your long experience has shown you many subtle aspects of captive ball pythons.


http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6aaae1ef.jpg


I have seen mine tag a rat from her branch setup but I didn't get a pic til after the kill.

i have a hatchling thats eaten a hummingbird (with the beak cut off) when times were hard and i had to hunt food for the snakes. lol

Um ..
What..

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i have a hatchling thats eaten a hummingbird (with the beak cut off) when times were hard and i had to hunt food for the snakes. lol

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that's so metal.

hella met-tull

i cut the beak off the hummingbird so it wouldnt lacerate the asaphagos ofcourse.

Troll much

what are you talking about? im trying to give legitimate information about the fact that keeping ball pythons is not a regimented process of 75 cool 85 warm, 60% humidity, tupperware container, blah blah blah. this is a living breathing predatory reptile were talking here.

0.1 dog, 0.1 cat... are you kidding me, who's the real troll.

Wouldn't say you're a troll but this information isn't really legitimate or useful to much of anyone unless someone just wanted to know if they if they could feed a BP a hummingbird but no one in their right might would ever suggest that, wow.

im inclined to believe the majority of you look at keeping reptiles the wrong way. there are people with critically thinking brains, and then there are people on internet message boards.

I'm inclined to believe that when there is a standard of care/husbandry, there's probably damn good reason for why we do certain things the way we do them.

So you haven't posted here in how long?

And you want to come tell people improper housing is ok, no quarantine is necessary, and feeding your pets wild caught prey is ok.

At least this is how it reads to me. And leaves little for my brain to work with.

Was the hummingbird at least dead before you cut off the beak?

first of all, improper housing is a matter of oppinion. you may keep your snake contained in a little tupperware box with no room to move while i keep 2 in a large custom built enclosure with room to stretch climb, and hunt. im not saying keep your snake cold.. the temp and humidity rules are good guidelines to follow but a lot of the other bs on websites like this is people being to anal about their balls because they have nothing else to do.

- - - Updated - - -

and yes the bird was shot dead before the beak was cut off and it was fed to the snake.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

im inclined to believe the majority of you look at keeping reptiles the wrong way. there are people with critically thinking brains, and then there are people on internet message boards.

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Ur kidding me rite? What a fool...

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Originally Posted by RedDragonMorphs

Ur kidding me rite? What a fool...

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

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do you care to back your statement at all??

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Originally Posted by mr~python

do you care to back your statement at all??

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Haha just reread this thread and lets see if you can use that critically thinking brain of urs to figure it out...

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exactly my point. defer to meaningless comebacks rather than the question at hand, ball pythons. ship your snakes to west africa where they will thrive.

What research have you put into this? Have you spoken with people like Kevin McCurley, or Brian Barczyk? What is their take on it?

Yep, I would say troll much. People on internet forums can't think critically, huh? Don't forget where you're posting! Looks to me like you formed that opinion after not hearing what you wanted to in response to your post. You just acquired your second BP but you are an expert? I have a feeling that your nine year number is rather exaggerated and would ask how old you are, however if you are simply the punk kid that your posts make you come off as then you'll just lie anyway. You're welcome to post all that you want here but don't come around posting garbage and expect to be taken seriously.

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Mr.Python.
I half agreed with what you said about climbing. I do not think they are arboreal, however, as they need hides and belly heat. I think that in the wild, a tree poses a lot more danger than a branch that sits within 3 walls. I have a number of photos, though, of mine climbing, especially my normal female who likes to sit on her tree and watch me.

I then read your 'fed it a bird' post.

Mr.Python, what are you Mr.PlayingAt??!
________________________________
London, UK
1.0 bumblebee (Hachi-C)
0.1 normal (Kali)

So let me get this straight. You say that ball pythons are arboreal and that keeping them in a rack system in tubs is basically just not a correct way to keep them? If you are such an expert why have you not written any publications on the subject of ball python keeping????? You think that keeping snakes for nine years, if that is indeed true, makes you some sort of know it all???? Granted I have only been keeping ball pythons for four years but I will tell you this, I am going to take the advice of breeders and folks that have way more experience then you claim to have. I used to keep my ball pythons in a terrarium with branches and all that other fancy stuff. I stopped doing all of that when my snakes kept falling off the branches. I find that keeping them in tubs and a rack system has benefited them greatly. They eat, poop, shed, urinate and thrive just fine the way I keep them. I for one would not feed my ball python anything I have found outside, including a hummingbird. I prefer to stick with rats and mice that have been bred and cared for by someone. You can come at me with whatever "expertise" you may have. You can discredit my statements all you want. I am NOT going to stop keeping my snakes in a rack system. Do you have any proof to back up all of your claims? It would be very interesting if you did. People would be way more inclined to believe you if you did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i have a hatchling thats eaten a hummingbird (with the beak cut off) when times were hard and i had to hunt food for the snakes. lol

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I find that quite sickening.

I don't normally feed trolls, but 'tis the season for giving. I hope you dug the bullet out when you went sharpshooting hummingbirds, because you wouldn't want to give your pythons lead poisoning. But I'm sure you have all the answers, no matter how improbable they may seem. Because you're a critical thinker and all.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...nandmemory.png

My snakes are doing just fine in rack systems, thriving, eating, shedding like BallPythonluvr said. If you can't afford/aren't able to feed ball pythons the proper prey (rats, mice, ASF) you shouldn't own ball pythons. And why would oh house for then one ball in the same cage, especially different ages and sizes when "times are tough"?

I have fed my BPs chicks and they loved them.

I want to know how you hunt humming birds?

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I have fed my BPs chicks and they loved them.

I want to know how you hunt humming birds?

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I don't have anything against feeding captive raised chicks to ball pythons (of any other snakes for that matter) I find it quite cruel to shoot a wild hummingbird, cut off its beak and feed to a ball python!

You would have to be a pretty damn good shot. :p

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

You would have to be a pretty damn good shot. :p

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That or you just spend a couple hours outside running around with a net.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

You would have to be a pretty damn good shot. :p

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No kidding! I thought I was hot stuff nailing starlings out of our cherry trees

To the OP

I don't condemn alternate ways of keeping animals (lord knows, we've heard the whole discussion a hundred times over, and I'm in no position to condemn anybody ;)). I do think it's odd that ALL ball pythons are semi arboreal because you have a few pictures of yours to prove it, or that it's an accepted practice to have pets you can't pay to feed/care for.

Racks provide an environment where BPs can be healthy and content, and so do display enclosures when set up correctly. I'm so frustrated that people get worked up over those points and start nit picking. Racks can be incorrectly used, as well as display cages, it's all a matter of the animal's needs being met.

to the guy interested in how i got the hummingbird, it was with a bb gun and i thought it was a common finch from where i was. i was bummed to see i had shot a hummingbird but was relieved when it didnt go to waste.

to all these nay sayers: first of all the only aspect of established bp husbandry im challenging is these 6 inch sweater boxes. they dont allow the snakes to climb and flex their muscle like they normally would. these "expert" breeders you speak of are interested in how many snakes they can have in a given area and pumping at hatchlings. kind of like commercial chicken houses but slightly more difficult.

Take Kevin McCurleys book "the complete ball python". the chapter on ball pythons in nature was 3 pages long; half of which was pictures! i understand these guys know how to keep ball pythons but so have i since i was 11. its not hard to keep and breed them and im interested in their natural history just as much as their captive requirements.

and what happened to my reputation points? you people are funny.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

to the guy interested in how i got the hummingbird, it was with a bb gun and i thought it was a common finch from where i was. i was bummed to see i had shot a hummingbird but was relieved when it didnt go to waste.

to all these nay sayers: first of all the only aspect of established bp husbandry im challenging is these 6 inch sweater boxes. they dont allow the snakes to climb and flex their muscle like they normally would. these "expert" breeders you speak of are interested in how many snakes they can have in a given area and pumping at hatchlings. kind of like commercial chicken houses but slightly more difficult.

Take Kevin McCurleys book "the complete ball python". the chapter on ball pythons in nature was 3 pages long; half of which was pictures! i understand these guys know how to keep ball pythons but so have i since i was 11. its not hard to keep and breed them and im interested in their natural history just as much as their captive requirements.

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I'm all for a live and let live attitude, within reason and that extends to your animals as well and how you choose to house/keep them, so long as their needs are met and they remain healthy. I take it from your statements that you've conducted extensive and exhaustive field research concerning python regius in their natural locales and current geographic ranges? How many subspecies have you conclusively identified, if any? How many, if any, "naturally" occurring morphs have you encounted during your field expeditions? How extensive is the geographic range of these animals? Did you do radio collaring or GPS sensors or how is it you managed to track them? What was your population sample size versus your "control" group from which you derived your findings? I'd love to hear your dissertations and read your peer-reviewed publications, as I'm always up for expanding my knowledge of topics that interest me, especially ball pythons and if there is anything I could do to better replicate the natural habitations of the animals I so dearly love, I would greatly appreciate your learned and valued guidance in steering me toward the path of enlightenment of all things python regius. Thaaaaaaaaaanks!

Mr python...you are so right about all of what you say!!! Because there are poisons and lots of chemicals found out in the African wilderness....so that must mean its safe to give then anything in the city where these poisons and chemicals are also found....

Also, just because you see them climb doesn't mean they do that in the wild, at least not like you are trying to say. They are very clumsy animals and can hurt themselves when they fall. I can also say before my husbandry was spot on, my little girl would climb, seems to be that she only felt comfortable up their. Once I got it right, she than went into her hides and only came out for 4 reasons, poop, shed, eat, and switch from cool - warm and the other way around.

So just because you have assumptions about something because you fed a snake a hummingbird you shot or saw it climb up a branch, doesn't mean you are right. Sure, you can happily keep one in a tank 12+" tall, and give them limbs, but that doesn't mean criticize the rest of us for keeping our just as happy, if not more so, and housing them in a rack system.

I am going to go ahead and ignore any post from you in the future, please sell your animals to someone whom can keep them happy too!!


Ball Pythons
0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

Boa Constrictors
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)

So none of you feed your snakes Hummingbirds ?? Remember, there are 4 food groups that ball pythons
require for a balanced diet..............
1. Rats/Mice
2. Hummingbirds (with beaks cut off)
3. Krinkle cut fries (lightly salted)
4. Baby Unicorns (with horn removed)

:D:D

My Ball Python has a tendancy to fall, when he climbs on a branch.

ok, if the only time your snake is out and about is to poop shed eat feed or switch hides then something is wrong. a bp should regularly come out and roam the cage at night, especially when its getting closer to feeding day but i too noticed this lack of activity when i kept mine in a rack system for a couple of years. my guess is they didnt have anything else to do!

if your python has a tendency to fall when it climbs a branch there is also something wrong. when i kept mine in an oversized enclosure with a large branch i had one snake that would coil on a branch like a tree python and bask under the che. a healthy, fit ball python can climb with ease.

to the dude who thinks im some kind of field scientist in Africa, i never said that. i said im just as interested in bp's natural history as much as there captive husbandry which is why i find the shelf and shoebox method to be quite lame.

Disregarding some of the obvious claims I would question...it's presumptuous to assume that the actions of ONE ball python determine the natural order. Case studies with large sample groups take large groups for a reason, and it isn't convenience. Saying all ball pythons are arboreal because yours can climb is like saying all dogs can open doors because mine can.

I would also suggest that, if your snake was in the tree to bask, this may have been because it was the only spot warm enough...

im not just talking about one snake im talking about every bp ive had thats had an enclosure where it could climb. and yes the snake was climbing to get to a warm spot but thats not my point. my point is healthy ball pythons are not clumsy and should be able to easily climb and rest on a branch and they will do so if given the opportunity. this is where the rack systems are lacking in my oppinion.

Snake was climbing to get warm.., and that's not the point? If it had a warm spot on the ground, would it of climbed? No probably not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

ok, if the only time your snake is out and about is to poop shed eat feed or switch hides then something is wrong. a bp should regularly come out and roam the cage at night, especially when its getting closer to feeding day but i too noticed this lack of activity when i kept mine in a rack system for a couple of years. my guess is they didnt have anything else to do!

if your python has a tendency to fall when it climbs a branch there is also something wrong. when i kept mine in an oversized enclosure with a large branch i had one snake that would coil on a branch like a tree python and bask under the che. a healthy, fit ball python can climb with ease.

to the dude who thinks im some kind of field scientist in Africa, i never said that. i said im just as interested in bp's natural history as much as there captive husbandry which is why i find the shelf and shoebox method to be quite lame.

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Actually a content python is a hiding python. They should come out in the evening as they are nocturnal.

The emotions you are placing on the snakes are human emotions. Because you would feel cramped in something comparatively the same size for you, it doesn't mean it is for them.

My tubs provide perfect humidity and thermo gradients. Which can be done in tanks, but is more complicated to achieve. Your ball python climbed the tree and basked under your CHE for that reason! You were using a CHE and it had to get warm. Doesn't mean it enjoyed it.

Also, your thinking 85 hot side and 75 cool side is on the low side. We know this because of the basic care that has been collaborated on by many people, perfecting it. We know what our snakes thrive at, and what makes them unhappy or even ill. We know that many BPs will regularly be too stressed in larger than necessary enclosures to even want to eat. Tell me how that makes them happy again?

Just because you have something that worked for 1 or 2 snakes does not mean that the industry/hobby should change everything that has been proven countless times to be the standard. You're assuming that BP breeders that use racks are trying to run a "puppy mill" type situation. Well in most cases you're wrong. I as well as any breeder I associate myself with care about their animals. We are constantly reading and learning about new updates on their care and husbandry. Making sure they live long healthy lives. There are people out there that don't care about the conditions of their animals, and they disgust me.

Now I am not saying that you have to play with your snakes daily and treat them as pets. You do however need to provide top notch care for them. That's our responsibility as breeders. Anyone who doesn't, needs to get out of the industry.

Your free to think what you are doing is right and what we do is wrong. That's just fine as long as your animals are healthy. We will continue to do things the way we do them, the proven way to ensure our animals are healthy and content.

One last thing, if you can't afford a $2-$5 rat once a week, you should have given up your snake to someone who could have taken care of it. Feeding any wild animal to your captive snake is incredibly stupid. Be glad your snake didn't get parasites.

Racks and tubs are acceptable housing for a ball. BPs spend 90% of their time in the wild holed up in termite mounds and rodent burrows. Can't image a rodent burrow is very spacious.
They only leave to find more food, mate, or a new burrow. And usually they just eat the occupant of the said burrow, rest, then find a new burrow to feed in.

Naturalistic housing is great. But racks are fine too. Its just personal preference.

And yikes to feeding wild caught animals and not practicing quarantine . I suggest you take your snakes to the vet and get them dewormed. Or at least a fecal done.
I'm fairly surprised your snake would even take a bird as prey if you truly aren't trolling...........

BPs are heavy bodied snakes. Sure some can climb, but they're built for terrestrial movements. They're not slinky like ATB or GTPs, which both evolved as aboreal animals. BPs are just not fine climbers like them due to their large bulk. So a clumsy climbing BP is reasonable....


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Also, as a nocturnal animal, they rarely come out to bask in the sun. They get most of their heat from the residual warmth of the ground and rocks. Do your snakes a favor and get a UTH + thermostat. The only reason they're coiled up in the branch like a GTP is because they have no other heating option..... Call it their last resort......

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

im inclined to believe the majority of you look at keeping reptiles the wrong way. there are people with critically thinking brains, and then there are people on internet message boards.

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I am inclined to believe that we shouldn't listen to someone who when they fall on hard times decides to hunt humming birds rather than re-home there animal. If you can't afford the price off a single rat once or twice a month you have no business keeping any animals captive.

http://www.medstudentsonline.com.au/...f_serious.jpeg

i keep my snakes in a wooden enclosure with flexwatt on a thermostat under the cage.

also, it should be noted the snake coiled under the che would sit there for a moment warming up, then roam the cage when it was hungry. and only at night. i believe already said bps should be active AT NIGHT. not during the day. you guys are changing up what i say in order to support your weak arguments.

theres only so much to learn about how to keep a bp healthy. its not hard. im saying you guys should take things to the next level. you all follow a strictly regimented way of doing things. its quite funny. think outside the tub so your animals can thrive. if you really cared about ball pythons you kooks wouldnt be reproducing strains like spiders who are proven to be genetically unhealthy. but hey as long as it looks pretty and fetches a pretty penny right? lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr~python

i keep my snakes in a wooden enclosure with flexwatt on a thermostat under the cage.

also, it should be noted the snake coiled under the che would sit there for a moment warming up, then roam the cage when it was hungry. and only at night. i believe already said bps should be active AT NIGHT. not during the day. you guys are changing up what i say in order to support your weak arguments.

theres only so much to learn about how to keep a bp healthy. its not hard. im saying you guys should take things to the next level. you all follow a strictly regimented way of doing things. its quite funny. think outside the tub so your animals can thrive. if you really cared about ball pythons you kooks wouldnt be reproducing strains like spiders who are proven to be genetically unhealthy. but hey as long as it looks pretty and fetches a pretty penny right? lol

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I wouldn't call a spider's wobble genetically unhealthy. I guess humans shouldn't breed either because we have the chance of producing kids with autism or Down syndrome?

I didn't say that you said they should come out during the day, I actually agreed with you that they are nocturnal. However, a PROPERLY fed BP should not need to "hunt" daily and roam all night. If its in its hide at night, it's content. It's not like it thinks "hmm, think ill go for a midnight stroll". They are instinctual animals. They do what they need to survive. Once again, you are placing your human emotions on them. They don't think like you.

Like Satomi said, they live in cramped termite mounds and rodents burrows. Being out and about is stressful for them in the wild. They have to worry about predators and the like. In my home, in their tubs, they have no need to go anywhere because I provide them with everything they seek in the wild.

Your snakes in their display enclosure is for your benefit. It's because you want to see them and because you are putting human emotion onto them thinking they would like a room with a view. They don't. I bet you believe your snakes just love being held and hanging out with you too. They don't. They may tolerate it, but they don't need nor want it.

I know what I said, but mr python, I'm talking about BEFORE I had a rack and used tanks that were HUGE!!

Mine would do the same as you say, climb up and sit under the light. It's because it can't get warm enough while hiding so it had to climb the tree to get warm. Once I added a 2nd hide, covered most of the too and got ambient temps up to par, then she hid. Also, I said she came out to eat, meaning, when she's hungry she would come roam for food. So stop trying to be me smarty pants and stop while your ah...sorry, your too far behind to ever be ahead lol.

You might as well delete your account if you're going to keep on. I think you need a 2 week IP ban to help change your mind on this!!


Ball Pythons
0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

Boa Constrictors
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)