finally got some corns

A couple weeks ago I was at the Cleveland expo and the wife convinced me our collection was missing something. We didn't have any colubrids. I wasn't a fan of worms but looking around I couldn't help but to see some really attractive corn morphs. Now the problem is I don't know jack about corn genetics. So If anyone can point me in the direction of a good source to do some reading it would be greatly appreciated. I got the basics of recessive and co/dom genes down from dealing with balls and boas but there is just seems to be so much more to the types of corns that its almost a separate lingo. Lol. Anyway here's my corn starter kit.
1.1 butter motley
1.1 lavender het patternless
I gave $120 for those for hatchlings

1.1 sunglow albino
$30 for this pair

0.1 snow
And I picked up this girl after the show from an individual with a 12x12x18 exoterra tank and decor for $40.

So did I do ok or did I get taken for a ride on the prices? Not that it really matters because I really like them all but curious as I have no experience with buying corns. Also if anyone could clue me in as to what my morphs are geneticly instead of trade names that would be awesome. Thanks all!

Not too great with corn genetics, but I'm pretty sure that most are recessive. As far as pricing, I think that you did pretty well, I sometimes see normal corns at $15-20, and you got some wicked morphs for no more than $30 apiece. Sounds like a good deal to me!

Of course, WE NEED PICS!

Awesome! I love cornsnakes, they are simple and beautiful :)

Adult corns are gorgeous :)

Those prices are actually really good! My butter motley was $50. And lavenders are not the cheapest either. Now, I'm not familiar with patternless really at all, but my limmited knowledge says that it is not a gene. I could be wrong though. You may want to look into that.

Butter motley has these 3 basic genes in it: Caramel, Amel, and Motley. Motley is a pattern morph and that is how those snakes have plain white bellies and the kinda stripy neck with the circles. Lol (poor description)

Lavender is a basic morph.

Snow: Amel and Anery.

I can't help you with the sunglows, but I'm sure they have amel in them as well. Maybe sunkissed or something. Pictures might help!

All the morphs that you are dealing with are reccesive. http://corncalc.com/ will help you a lot. Especially if you are planning to breed, which I'm assuming you are.

Thanks for the info folks. I thought I did ok on my haggling skills lol. I'll try and post some pics but they don't hold still to well and only camera I have is on my cell.

Sorry these lil boogers move way to quick so just got the best of crappy cell pics I could of each type.

Sunglow

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...pse3f056b5.jpg

Snow
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1aed7164.jpg

Tank that came with the snow
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6bf54194.jpg

Lavendar het patternless
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...ps997cfaac.jpg

Butter motley pics do her no justice
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6750b73c.jpg

They look good! I still don't know what is in a sunglow, but it does for sure have amel. And from a little bit of research, I think that "patternless" comes from the strip gene. And you can not predict a for sure out come. So what I'm saying is, A) You can't have het patternless without het stripe, and B) You can not predict how many of the offspring will have the patternless appearance because it is not a gene, more like it is line bred to look like that. Hope that helps!

Thank you Andrew21 I'm just going off what I was told by the breeder but I couldn't find a whole lot on patternless. The pair I got came out of a clutch with patternless siblings. I was told mom was het and dad was visual. Idk guess ill find out in a couple years. Either was I've got some pretty new babies to enjoy!

Glad to help! They were a good deal even without any hets!

Like most have said, corn snake morphs are almost always recessive. Tessera and aztec are a couple that come to mind that are dominant traits. I don't think there's any co-doms like in the ball pythons. Stripe/Motley are on the same loci, so you can breed a motley to a stripe and get hets or get a motley/stripe which usually has a clear belly with motley saddles that sometimes connect in spots to make a broken stripe.

I think the sunkissed is a selectively bred amel, if I'm not mistaken.

Good job on your pick ups! I'm working with a snow motley and some hypo lavenders. I've also got an anery, normal, and a bloodred corn. My breeding goal is a hypo lavender bloodred! We'll see if I can get that!

I'm thinking about picking up a pair of the patternless lavendars to add to my group just to be sure to produce some in the fiture. I'm a long ways off but I think pattenless butters would be hot!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakehobbyist

Like most have said, corn snake morphs are almost always recessive. Tessera and aztec are a couple that come to mind that are dominant traits. I don't think there's any co-doms like in the ball pythons. Stripe/Motley are on the same loci, so you can breed a motley to a stripe and get hets or get a motley/stripe which usually has a clear belly with motley saddles that sometimes connect in spots to make a broken stripe.

I think the sunkissed is a selectively bred amel, if I'm not mistaken.

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You probably meant sunglow. But either way I wanted to clarify that sunkissed is its own gene. Seperate from amel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew21

You probably meant sunglow. But either way I wanted to clarify that sunkissed is its own gene. Seperate from amel.

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I knew sunglow was selectrively bred amels, but I thought sunkissed were as well. However, before I saw this post, I did a little research and it's a Hypo gene that makes the sunkissed. It's different from plain 'ol Hypo and is also called Hypo Type B (kinda like Anerys vs. charcoals)

Hmm.. I didn't know that. It's wierd because of how sunkissed is kind of a pattern muttation as well as color because of the effect it has on the head. Where as hypo doesn't effect the pattern. But with the anery's they both pretty much do the same thing, one just has less yellow.

I thought it was strange myself.

I'm currently trying to figure out my anery. I bought him as an anery motley but some people on the cornsnake forum think he might have strawberry in him (his mother was either a snow or coral snow...the breeder doesn't remember). To me, he looks like a coral ghost but I know the genetics aren't there. Corn snake genetics are so fun!

Here's a picture of my anery motley for a little visual to what I'm talking about:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5853/85210274.jpg

That picture was taken in natural sunlight in my slipper xD Travis is about 30g in that picture.

Do you know what the dad was? I'm not really seeing coral ghost, but He kinda looks like a bright ghost, with dark boarders. Hmm...

He's got a lot of salmon color in his background. One of the other people suggested he might have the strawberry in him to make him more of a "pastel" anery (she showed me some pictures of her pastel anerys and they were nearly identical to Travis). If he does have strawberry, it definitely tells me his mother was a coral snow. The breeder didn't have the best records with him (I got him at the NARBC in Arlington last August) but he said he was pretty sure the father was an anery motley. When I got him, he was about 12g and looked very much like an anery baby (black and grey). He's about 45g now and with each shed, he gets brighter and brighter. He's got a little bit of his yellow coming in but his "grey" background is turning more and more pink/salmon. I had made the post on the other forum because his bright color and pink/salmon background seemed strange to me for an anery so I asked if that was normal since I'm new to the anery morph. So really, we aren't sure what he is. I have a snow motley female to pair him with hopefully spring 2014 if my female is big enough. That will tell me if he's anery or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

Like most have said, corn snake morphs are almost always recessive. Tessera and aztec are a couple that come to mind that are dominant traits. I don't think there's any co-doms like in the ball pythons. Stripe/Motley are on the same loci, so you can breed a motley to a stripe and get hets or get a motley/stripe which usually has a clear belly with motley saddles that sometimes connect in spots to make a broken stripe.

I think the sunkissed is a selectively bred amel, if I'm not mistaken.

Good job on your pick ups! I'm working with a snow motley and some hypo lavenders. I've also got an anery, normal, and a bloodred corn. My breeding goal is a hypo lavender bloodred! We'll see if I can get that!

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Yes, it's already been stated that sunglow is just a selectively bred amel. TBH it kind of pisses me off when people sell babies as "sunglows" because in my opinion, you can't really know that a baby snake will have enough white saddle reduction to be considered a sunglow until they are quite large, I'd say even a year or two before you can call them a sunglow for sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrew21

They look good! I still don't know what is in a sunglow, but it does for sure have amel. And from a little bit of research, I think that "patternless" comes from the strip gene. And you can not predict a for sure out come. So what I'm saying is, A) You can't have het patternless without het stripe, and B) You can not predict how many of the offspring will have the patternless appearance because it is not a gene, more like it is line bred to look like that. Hope that helps!

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And yes sunglow is just plain amel, selectively bred to reduce or eliminate the white saddles. And no, you can't really have a snake who is "het. patternless." Again as already stated, it would be het. Stripe. Maybe the parents were really good examples of the vanishing stripe, but that has NO indication of how the babies (or the babies future babies) will turn out, so I'm not sure why the breeder would label them as that, other than to make it sound fancier. Either way, you didn't pay that much, so meh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I thought it was strange myself.

I'm currently trying to figure out my anery. I bought him as an anery motley but some people on the cornsnake forum think he might have strawberry in him (his mother was either a snow or coral snow...the breeder doesn't remember). To me, he looks like a coral ghost but I know the genetics aren't there. Corn snake genetics are so fun!

Here's a picture of my anery motley for a little visual to what I'm talking about:

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5853/85210274.jpg

That picture was taken in natural sunlight in my slipper xD Travis is about 30g in that picture.

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The whole coral thing is somewhat confusing; whoever coined the term "coral ghost" perhaps didn't think it all the way through, since a coral snow is simply hypo, amel, and anery. And a ghost is simply hypo and anery. However a coral ghost is strawberry + anery.

Oh well, what can ya do. Either way, nice pickups, corns are super fun!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

The whole coral thing is somewhat confusing; whoever coined the term "coral ghost" perhaps didn't think it all the way through, since a coral snow is simply hypo, amel, and anery. And a ghost is simply hypo and anery. However a coral ghost is strawberry + anery.

Oh well, what can ya do. Either way, nice pickups, corns are super fun!

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Haha. This is why I much prefer ball python morphs! They are a million times easier to understand! But, I have 6 corns and I love them all dearly. I have two breeding pairs and two "pets". I'm just looking forward to watching them all grow and see what I can make as far as babies are concerned. So far I have my anery (at least I think he's anery) motley het amel with a snow motley and the second breeding pair is a bloodred het hypo/lavender/motley PH amel/caramel with a hypo lavender PH motley. Ultimately I want to make some hypo lavender bloodreds. My "pets" are an Alabama and a Miami phase normal corns.

Lol YOU ARE MISTAKEN, ball pythons are not at all easier to understand!

There are soooooooooooooooo many dominant/incomplete dominant/codominant morphs as well as the recessives. At least corns only have recessives with the exception of tessera, which is to this day still the only dominant corn snake morph that I currently know of.

You're just more familiar with ball pythons ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

Lol YOU ARE MISTAKEN, ball pythons are not at all easier to understand!

There are soooooooooooooooo many dominant/incomplete dominant/codominant morphs as well as the recessives. At least corns only have recessives with the exception of tessera, which is to this day still the only dominant corn snake morph that I currently know of.

You're just more familiar with ball pythons ;)

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I'm not sure it's so much that I'm familiar with them...I think I just prefer them. I've been keeping corns a lot longer than I've been keeping ball pythons and I still prefer ball python morphs. I guess when a trait is dominant/co-dom I think the suspense and mystery behind what comes out of an egg! You can know what you COULD get, but it'll always be a mystery until those babies crawl out! I suppose the same could be said for corns. But in the end, I LOVE genetics and learning more and more every day. I'd love to be able to truly understand the genetics of both species. But...that is many years of learning for me. I don't think I'll ever truly know them all!