Labor question

I just wanted to get opinions from the community on a situation I'm currently experiencing and have a bad taste because of.

I'll remain anonymous about the company, just to make everything a little less bias. But understand that where I work has hundreds of people round the clock there.

If I'm scheduled from 4:00 P. M. to 1:00 A. M. Can they make me stay any later than that? They keep trying to drill (well, "they", but it's one single member of management saying this) into us that if the "assignment" isn't complete by 1 am, we HAVE to stay. No "you can" or "the hours are there" but we CANNOT leave until it is done. Completely done.

I've mostly researched that people are like "why complain", "free hours", "at least you have a job" and quite frankly I find that nonsense. I'm scheduled from x to y and that's it. I personally feel that it has to be against some kind of labor law, but obviously if by some stretch I do go over they aren't penalized for it.

To be clearer, this manager means whether it takes ten extra minutes or two extra hours that's how long we have to stay. I've considered going above this managers head about it, but I'm really not that kind of person. We are also understaffed beyond all reason too. Today for example, (I'm at lunch right now) we had a a really light night. But, company rules say regardless we should have 11 guys and there's only five. So, on a nightly basis we do the job of 11 with anywhere from as little as 3 to as many as 7 guys. So, I feel like the expectations are set at a level unattainable by us and by **** am I gonna to pay for the ineptitude of the hiring department.

So, just let it rip and don't hold back. I need to hear others take on the matter and see if I'm in the wrong or if the company is doing something illegal or just morally reprehensible.

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You asked for it..... Quit whinning or quit the job! My job tells you when you hire on if its an 8 hour shift plan to be there 16 because, guess what if the next guy in your spot don't show up or quits you are there until the next shift starts. By law they only have to give you 8 hours off before your next shift. Btw with my job there is no lunch break. If you get a chance to grab a sandwich great if not sucks to be you! Oh you haven't had a coffee/smoke break and you've been here 9 hours. Haha sucks to be you. Now the funny part..... I LOVE my job! Even though the hours suck. But as for you. Man up or give up! Work hard play harder or go flip burgers and your next post will be: man wish I had the money for this new morph.
So was that honest enough for you?

I get where you coming from, and I could make whiney excuses about so and so doesn't do their job either or they don't pay me enough to care blah blah. But, the fact is I don't. They can't fire me for it, or at least I don't think they can, so I'm gonna do me and see how it goes.

Well, I guess I'll give the whiney excuses and see what you say. ;)

I work the second, of three, shifts. So, when I go in I usually spend about 45 minutes to an hour picking up their mess/being told what they didn't get done (THEY get to leave when things aren't done, but I can't?) and then do my job. Afterwards we do "picks" or go back through the system pulling merchandise from back stock to the floor so stockers can work it. The bull**** stops with us, apparently because we can't leave till the job is done.



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All legitiment reasons to be irratated. I hear where youre coming from. I've been there and sounds similar to the start of my day. I currently work 14 12's . Well I get paid for that but my day is normally 13 hrs. I came on strong with the first post cuz you kinda asked for it but honestly if its so bad find another job.

I can see both sides. There is the obvious, "if you don't like it, find another job," and, "quit whining and be happy you have a job," and those are valid perspectives.

At the same time, we shouldn't be expected to be the property of our employers. If you hired in with the understanding that your shift would be from x - y, then that is what your shift should be. Just like they have expectations of you, you should be able to have expectations of them. A job, for the most part, is a partnership. They need someone to perform a duty and you need some money to live, so you strike a deal. I will give you _____ and in return you will give me _______.


Your job is to perform the job you were hired to do, on the days you were hired to do it, during the times you were hired to be there. If any of these things need to be changed, then you should be notified and invited to have a conversation regarding the changes. If you choose to agree to the changes, then you need to be prepared to follow through. If you do not agree with the changes, then you need to be prepared to accept the consequences of not being in a position to perform the job as they need it performed. However, if you say, "No, I can't stay beyond x," and they agree, then they don't have the right to give you a hard time about it.

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Originally Posted by H.o.F.R

All legitiment reasons to be irratated. I hear where youre coming from. I've been there and sounds similar to the start of my day. I currently work 14 12's . Well I get paid for that but my day is normally 13 hrs. I came on strong with the first post cuz you kinda asked for it but honestly if its so bad find another job.

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By chance do you work in the oil field?

Best advice I've ever been given "The only break you need is the fact that you got a break when you got the job". . . It's hard times to be hard pressed about getting paid extra money to work extra hours. Buck up, tough up, grow to expect it and make it a normal. It helps you deal with the fact that the hours are longer, but you come to ease into it as you expect it.

Labor laws are not there to protect you in this area - Sorry hard truth. I've been forced to stay over an extra 4 hours on a 12 hour shift numerous times, heck even volunteered other times. 16 hours makes for a long day, however, anything over 16 hours does fall into a dangerous territory for Legal since insurence no longer provides workmens coverage if they are on site for more than 16 consecutive hours. Most places that have workmans comp insurance in place must follow these standards. 16 on, followed by a min of 8 off before you can return to work.

Welcome to the real working persons world.

I work 4-midnight 5 days a week, I can't go home until I am relieved, like twice the week before last my relief was 1 hour late. I have had them just no show and if I was lucky my boss got someone else to show up half way thro the next shift, so 4 more hours. Worst case I am there till 8 am when the day shift comes on. I can understand where your coming from, a lot of it is what kind of job are you working, some jobs should be x-y and you can leave after, some jobs are x to y or x to when your relieve shows up, usually you know which is which before you get the job. So basically, I am no help.

It's delicately balance with the fact that we're a 24 hour 7 days a week joint but for us its shift 1 is 7 am to 4 pm, shift to 4-1, and shift three 10-7. So, in my situation I'm kinda of the opinion now that if I'm accountable for the picks that drop at 9 then shift one shouldn't be allowed to leave until their picks are completely done too. An all or no one deal, really. But, I do feel thankful that I have a job and can work. One of those "problems you're lucky to have" sort of things.

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The problem is the economy is so :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:e, that employers are getting away with BS and all you ever hear is "be thankful you have a job." Can't say to your employer "be thankful you have employees!" because unfortuody nately for you, they could just hire the next poor sap walking by, because everybody needs a job.

Still, it's no reason to bend over backwards. I'm not sure what exactly the laws are in your area, but where I live, nobody can MAKE you work overtime.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, "Life isn't fair." And?

Talk to a labor laws lawyer. Usually you can meet with one for free and if they think youve got a case theyll represent you. Thats IF you get really hassled about it or get fired or something. I wouldnt necessarily go visit one right now.

The labor laws here say you can be called to stay longer, but you also have to be paid overtime or given comp time, if you are an hourly employee (salaried might have a few different rules, I'm not positive since I'm hourly). If I am otherwise capable of doing it (I have an infant to worry about, overtime is hard on me), I would, as long as I am getting the extra pay.

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

So if I'm hearing you correctly, "Life isn't fair." And?

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Hah. If that was the case, I'd shut my trap. Quite frankly, the way this manager puts it is that either it gets done or else. That night, I was headed to clock out at 12:50 because I got to work early so I could leave early and she tried to decide for me that I should work until one. "Well, you've got 10 minutes so-"; I cut her off and told her that regardless of what she could come up with, I was leaving because I worked my 8 hours.

I'm fairly certain they cannot get me in trouble for leaving when my shift is officially over. As long as I play by the actual rules that we've played by for the last 7 months, there is nothing they can do. If the little chit-chat crap about working until the jobs done then I'm going to tell them my shift is over at 1 A.M. regardless and if that's such a big deal they should staff our crew properly. Can you believe they hired temps on for the "winter" (These guys started three days ago, and we've already got all of the christmas stuff in) instead of hiring on schmoes to staff our crew the right way?

I guess what I'm saying is life IS not fair, right now, but I'll do what I feel is right and go from there.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

The labor laws here say you can be called to stay longer, but you also have to be paid overtime or given comp time, if you are an hourly employee (salaried might have a few different rules, I'm not positive since I'm hourly). If I am otherwise capable of doing it (I have an infant to worry about, overtime is hard on me), I would, as long as I am getting the extra pay.

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I wouldn't care as much if it was a "we could use the help" or "it'd be great if you'd help us out". I care when it's a requirement or threatening punishment if we don't. Shes all talk right now, and I'm going to talk to managers who actually matter tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Hah. If that was the case, I'd shut my trap. Quite frankly, the way this manager puts it is that either it gets done or else. That night, I was headed to clock out at 12:50 because I got to work early so I could leave early and she tried to decide for me that I should work until one. "Well, you've got 10 minutes so-"; I cut her off and told her that regardless of what she could come up with, I was leaving because I worked my 8 hours.

I'm fairly certain they cannot get me in trouble for leaving when my shift is officially over. As long as I play by the actual rules that we've played by for the last 7 months, there is nothing they can do. If the little chit-chat crap about working until the jobs done then I'm going to tell them my shift is over at 1 A.M. regardless and if that's such a big deal they should staff our crew properly. Can you believe they hired temps on for the "winter" (These guys started three days ago, and we've already got all of the christmas stuff in) instead of hiring on schmoes to staff our crew the right way?

I guess what I'm saying is life IS not fair, right now, but I'll do what I feel is right and go from there.

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Hey, I hear you about what they are pulling. I didn't mean to be insensitive but unfortunately in this economy it just the reality. They have the luxury of 10 more people lined up to take your job if you don't want to play their game. So like alot of others have posted, you can play their game or find another job. And while they cant fire you for playing by the actual rules, they can always find a way to eliminate a situation that isn't working for them, or make it miserable enough that you decide to go elsewhere. Best of luck to you and be prepared to take whatever they may throw at you. Remember, the house always wins.

Oh, no, I'm frustrated at the situation not you haha. I asked for brutal honesty after all.

I work tomorrow, so I'm gonna try and work a talk with a manager and the guys in my crew about it before we start working.

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How old are you? Highly doubt there's a thing you could do. In all honesty, makes no sense to me to not want the extra hours when they're available...in my experience, they are the first people to whine when hours start going down. In my line of work, I can count on 2 hands the amount of times I was out by the time I was "scheduled" to over the past 5+ years. Gotta deal with it...as long as you're getting paid in accordance to federal/state guidelines and not being harassed or physically abused at work, you really haven't a leg to stand on with your gripes. As someone else mentioned, if things are that bad, you're free to leave at any time.

Opinion of course...

Me, personally, I'm not hurting and need money. Sure, I wouldn't be mad about more money but for what I'm doing I just don't see the work equaling the pay. Perhaps that's just what the root of it is, I don't feel my pay equals what I do.

I wish there were other jobs, and don't get me wrong I'm going to start looking.

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http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-...better-person/

Read this.. It's so true. Sad, but very true when it comes to what we mean in the working world.

Try my Job 10 hrs working straight then 4 hours off & if poop hits the fan time to wake up & do what u must.Part of the crew part of the ship we all family,it sucks but its life there are thousands without a job be blessed i sure am sorry if i came off a lil rude but lately all i see on the internet are negativity and cruelty i understand you need to vent but with the good comes the bad.

Ugh, I know that feeling. We just lost 3 people when we were already running a bare-bones crew at our 24-hour store (2 of them only gave a week's notice and then didn't even finish out their week! The other one got fired so on top of everything else we've had the Loss Prevention guy breathing down our neck). Thankfully I'm on overnights (11pm-7am normally) so I'm not stuck picking up all the open shifts like I probably would have been if I was still an evening shift supervisor, but now us overnights keep getting stuck with everything Evening Shift doesn't finish on top of all of our stuff that normally takes all night anyway, so that's been fun.

Maybe even just something small like "Well it's hard to get all of our stuff done when we start out having to finish up the previous shift's work" would help drive home the point about unrealistic expectations to your pushy manager, or at least remind her to also hassle the previous shift so things feel more even. Hope talking to your next-up manager does some good, or at least makes you feel better about the whole thing.

So, when I go in I usually spend about 45 minutes to an hour picking up their mess/being told what they didn't get done (THEY get to leave when things aren't done, but I can't?)

In my experience, 2nd. shift ALWAYS gets the poop end of the stick. 1st. shifters are spoiled. Daylight savings time was even created for 1st. shifters!

Ask to see the contract you signed when you started there. Don't be rude about it, but don't feel obligated to tell them why. If you find out that what they're doing is against your contract, just start following your contract to the T. If there's nothing specifically stated in your contract, take it up a rung and ask about the company's specific policies on staff requirements. If your boss isn't following the company's minimum staff requirements and you're being forced to do the work of two people with the pay of one, tell them they have to fix it or you'll take action.

Unless you work in a right-to-work state, in which case you're probably f*cked, but should consult an attorney in private anyway. If an attorney thinks that you can make a case against your employer and your employer is unwilling to fix the problem, I'd probably go for it. If they're in breach of contract (and you're not), you'll probably get more out of a suit than you're getting in overtime pay.

Seriously though, the "be glad you have a job" thing is B.S. At some point, the money flow doesn't justify the loss of quality of life.

All very good points . I appreciate the feed back.

@scales: Yeah, I know at some point I just need to suck it up and chug on but making 7.65 doing gods all (which in other stores, they don't do two of the four "jobs" we do) and hearing "do it faster tomorrow" gets old. It's not like we're providing a vital service, there are 10 other places in town people can go.

@Lotus: I might try that, I need to be nice though and I'm not sure I could haha. I'm going to start writing down all the pick amounts that shift one left unfinished and then have all my guys sign it. Tell the pm manager "they didn't finish these, ride them too" and go from there.

@Saint: I would really like to avoid court, because I think I can pitch it right to am managers that they need to have a sit down with her and tell her to clamp it. They ride us about not getting over time, but hell or high water we better stay and finish. It's like trying to train a dog in a room full of kids, you're gonna get no where.

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So, I'm at lunch have some good-ish news about the situation.

The supervisor below management and above us, who runs our crew, wanted to have a talk with us and the owner of the store so that's what we did before we got down to work today. We went over a lot of what really is our job and what is not. Which was helpful, because more often than not we just get thrown into whatever needs doing regardless of department.

We also, well me more than anyone, straight up asked about being threatened with punishment if we didn't stay over time. He kind of beat around the bush but when I basically equated it to kidnapping he said quite a few times he would be talking about that to the manager who said it. He also said, in a bit of double speak, that they CAN punish us but it would be for lack of productivity and not because we just did not stay. From what I understood out of his response was that he threw his manager halfway under the bus, she can't reprimand us for leaving but she can if picks aren't done. Which, they always are so basically her threatening us was for not.

We also learned that they are hiring ever more people for our skeleton crew and are trying to over staff us so that everything that has been happening becomes a non-issue because there will just be so many people to take care of it. Which doesn't hurt me at all.

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You need to research OK labor laws. They can terminate you any time they want to. If you come in early, it doesn't give you the right to leave early. As long as they don't fire you for any type of discriminatory reason i.e. sex, race, disability or religion they are in the clear pretty much. OK is a right-to-work state. Most people have to deal with things that aren't fair. It's life unfortunately. Remember this, you are always replaceable and someone is always willing to take your place.

Just for clarification, Right to Work is the right to work without being forced to pay union dues. In other words, you can work in a company that is unionized, but do not have to pay union dues or join the union. I think what you meant to say is that OK is an "at will" state. This means that you can be fired for good cause, bad cause or no cause, just not an illegal cause (Title VII, ADA, etc. violations).

New Hampshire is an "At will" state. Nobody likes it, either.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

when I basically equated it to kidnapping

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Really???

:rolleyes:

I did do my research OK laws, but I also read in my contract that they reserve the right to fire me at anytime with out disclosing a reason. So, besides the law being on their side, I agreed to it despite the law when I signed my job offer.

Yes, you're right, it doesn't give me the right to leave early. But they also ride us for over time, and it's posted above the time clock that clocking out 15 minutes or more before the end of your shift is considered an incomplete shift. So, I'm not doing anything anyone else can't or doesn't do.

Another point I came up with after the whole punishment threat was that the other people she "talked to" with us are full timers. Any extra they stay is GOING to be paid overtime. If we were California or Alaska then at 8, it would be time and a half already but alas we're not. So, while they have guaranteed time and a half we don't get it.

And, yes. Being forced against your will to be somewhere you don't want to be, isn't that kidnapping? ;)

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But the way I see it is this.. They really CAN'T force you to do anything because you CAN just leave if you want to.. The problem is, they can then fire you as a walk-out or whatever they want. You're not being forced to work there. That's the catch 22 of working in much of the USA.. You don't have to work, and once you have a job your boss can't force you to do anything, but if you don't do what is expected of you as long as that company isn't breaking the labor laws, you can be fired. So it kind of is like you're being forced, but not against your will. You do it because you need a job and don't want to lose the one you have.

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Originally Posted by Don

Just for clarification, Right to Work is the right to work without being forced to pay union dues. In other words, you can work in a company that is unionized, but do not have to pay union dues or join the union. I think what you meant to say is that OK is an "at will" state. This means that you can be fired for good cause, bad cause or no cause, just not an illegal cause (Title VII, ADA, etc. violations).

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Right to work means you can use union benefits without being paying union dues, as in legally free load off the union, federal law already protects you from being forced to join a union or any other group you do not wish to support, whether it be religious, a car club, or work related.

My advise, if the new solutions aren't working out, find a new job, don't expect the law to protect you and you to stay there very long. It doesn't sound like you're doing a career job so find something better. In my opinion the whole "you're lucky to have a job" mentality is just being a coward. What if everyone had that mentality? We would all be working for minimum wage or less in crap conditions telling each other "we're lucky to have a job."

Yeah, I'm looking. The last two nights I worked, we busted everything out super quick and got our end done and then some without staying anytime over. So, we discovered that they're having to cut 900 hours out of the schedule, from overnighters, who started whining that my crew doesn't do our job. Which led to the threat, which started everything. So, we're putting the light on them now by taking care of business and showing the reason they don't get everything done is because they just aren't getting it done on their own.


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