Enchi and Clown question(s)

So ive been thinking very hard about getting into breeding in a year or 2. Enchi's and clowns have caught my eye from the start. Im horrible about finding articles and feeling uneducated about the finer points. Can anyone recommend some good reads, or give me a bit on input on these 2 morphs. Im curious if either morph have issues like spider's with their wobble, or deserts and breeding. Any help or a finger pointed in the right direction would be most appreciated. Ive visited many posts and read articles on breeding itself but find little on specific morphs.

Neither of those morphs have issues. That's prolly why you can't find info on it :).

For future reference, the search function here helps a lot when looking for info. That's where I'd start if I was looking for specific info :)

Good luck on your breeding adventure ;)!

Both are rock solid genetics with no known issues that I know of.
I love my enchi boy and our clown male is nothing short of amazing at 2600+ grams.
Both are awesome breeders and eat well during breeding season.

Yep yep! As the others posted, there's no fertility issues, wobbles, kinking, lethal supers. Clowns are recessive and sometimes their het version makes the offspring look cooler/different (so that's a plus LOL). Enchis are co-dom (or "incomplete dom" for the uptight folks) and they look better when they age and their super forms completely change color and pattern :gj:. Honestly doesn't get any better than these combos.

Get an enchi het clown and a clown. One day, if you decide to breed, you'll get some amazing babies!

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Yep yep! As the others posted, there's no fertility issues, wobbles, kinking, lethal supers. Clowns are recessive and sometimes their het version makes the offspring look cooler/different (so that's a plus LOL). Enchis are co-dom (or "incomplete dom" for the uptight folks) and they look better when they age and their super forms completely change color and pattern :gj:. Honestly doesn't get any better than these combos.

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Unless you add ghost... :P

I agree with everyone here. You can't go wrong with clowns and enchis in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

Yep yep! As the others posted, there's no fertility issues, wobbles, kinking, lethal supers. Clowns are recessive and sometimes their het version makes the offspring look cooler/different (so that's a plus LOL). Enchis are co-dom (or "incomplete dom" for the uptight folks) and they look better when they age and their super forms completely change color and pattern :gj:. Honestly doesn't get any better than these combos.

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I should have posted "do they get better with age or is there anything to look for like pastels browning out" as one of my questions lol, glad you read my mind. And thank you all for the posts. I liked them from the start because their looks draw me in. The fact i couldnt find any known issues just added to my list of plus's. I just wanted to be sure that my search's were actually comeing up empty and i wasnt just missing a keyword somewhere that brings up a list a mile long lol. I tend to be a person that looks at something over and over till the second i finally purchase it to make sure i know what im getting into.

Both are very hot morphs right now. As stated above there is no known problems. Enchis get better with age in my opinion. Everyone has different taste in what they consider a good example of a certain morph gut for these my preference is
Enchi:...Nice clean banding, nice orange sides, and as few spots as possible. Makes for a cleaner snake.
Clown: I prefer the reduced pattern clowns but some people prefer a little busier pattern. I also love a nice head pattern on a clown. Get some nice het clown females or visual clown female and start growing them up. You can get your male later on.
Good luck. Hope this helps some.

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Originally Posted by bones93

Both are very hot morphs right now. As stated above there is no known problems. Enchis get better with age in my opinion. Everyone has different taste in what they consider a good example of a certain morph gut for these my preference is
Enchi:...Nice clean banding, nice orange sides, and as few spots as possible. Makes for a cleaner snake.
Clown: I prefer the reduced pattern clowns but some people prefer a little busier pattern. I also love a nice head pattern on a clown. Get some nice het clown females or visual clown female and start growing them up. You can get your male later on.
Good luck. Hope this helps some.

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It does help. it also brings up another question. Why would you say get a visual female early on and the male later. I would think getting a good male early and useing him for multiple females would be a good idea. Or are you meaning get the females now to raise, and the male closer to when i decide to breed because males mature much quicker?

Get females now since you have to bring them up to size. And get the male a year before you plan on breeding, the price on males will drop and it is one less mouth to feed for a year. When working with ressisives genes i like to have a visual female that way I can put anything to her and all the offspring will be ___ het__ and you can always breed the son back to mom.

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Originally Posted by Seth702

It does help. it also brings up another question. Why would you say get a visual female early on and the male later. I would think getting a good male early and useing him for multiple females would be a good idea. Or are you meaning get the females now to raise, and the male closer to when i decide to breed because males mature much quicker?

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You'd want to get a good recessive first for a couple reasons.
1) Anything you breed to her will be het clown, and you could possibly breed them back to mom the following year, opposed to breeding a male to any female that doesn't have the clown gene, then raising females for 2-3 years to breed them. 3 years is longer than 2 years =p.
2) As you stated, males mature much quicker. As another poster stated, it's 1 less mouth to feed while you raise your female, and males will slowly drop in price :gj:.

Big female recessives are sooooooo valuable! Especially a clown!

Something to note, Clowns vary quite a bit. You can hatch reduced clowns and busy clowns from any clown, but there ARE some lines of genetic reduced pattern clowns, and various other types. The genetic variations of clowns are typically a bit more expensive :gj:. Any clown is good for me since they vary so much :D.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

You'd want to get a good recessive first for a couple reasons.
1) Anything you breed to her will be het clown, and you could possibly breed them back to mom the following year, opposed to breeding a male to any female that doesn't have the clown gene, then raising females for 2-3 years to breed them. 3 years is longer than 2 years =p.
2) As you stated, males mature much quicker. As another poster stated, it's 1 less mouth to feed while you raise your female, and males will slowly drop in price :gj:.

Big female recessives are sooooooo valuable! Especially a clown!

Something to note, Clowns vary quite a bit. You can hatch reduced clowns and busy clowns from any clown, but there ARE some lines of genetic reduced pattern clowns, and various other types. The genetic variations of clowns are typically a bit more expensive :gj:. Any clown is good for me since they vary so much :D.

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Definitely good information. I was on the right track just didnt spell it out so well haha. I personally like the busy patterned clowns. Very good to know they can produce both reduced and busy though, i was not aware of that. I did know there were genetic reduced though from some other posts i read in the past. I still have a long way to go in my het research. I hadnt decided what sex of each morph i wanted yet. This definitely helps me in that reguard. I was thinking Enchi het clown female and either a het male or a clown male depending on funds and price as i get closer. Still much to think about and plenty of time to decide. I also must consider if i want to mess with Het's at all or just save up for the morph in the first place. The funs in proveing them out.

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Originally Posted by h00blah

You'd want to get a good recessive first for a couple reasons.
1) Anything you breed to her will be het clown, and you could possibly breed them back to mom the following year, opposed to breeding a male to any female that doesn't have the clown gene, then raising females for 2-3 years to breed them. 3 years is longer than 2 years =p.
2) As you stated, males mature much quicker. As another poster stated, it's 1 less mouth to feed while you raise your female, and males will slowly drop in price :gj:.

Big female recessives are sooooooo valuable! Especially a clown!

Something to note, Clowns vary quite a bit. You can hatch reduced clowns and busy clowns from any clown, but there ARE some lines of genetic reduced pattern clowns, and various other types. The genetic variations of clowns are typically a bit more expensive :gj:. Any clown is good for me since they vary so much :D.

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To my knowledge, there is only 1 line of clowns, the BHB line. Please elaborate on "...but there ARE some lines of genetic reduced pattern clowns, and various other types" Which other lines of Clown are you talking about?

or you could go against everyone's advise like I did and get a breeder clown male to breed to multiple morph females.
I have no clown females, but my male has banked well over 10k in babies in 2 seasons of breeding.
Would I like a clown female, heck yes, but my male clown has made me far more than growing up a female clown first :snake:

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

To my knowledge, there is only 1 line of clowns, the BHB line. Please elaborate on "...but there ARE some lines of genetic reduced pattern clowns, and various other types" Which other lines of Clown are you talking about?

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I don't mean specific LINES that were proven by anyone, but I'm referring to lines that certain breeders are working with. Jimmy Ma is working with "clowns" lol, not "lemon clowns" or "circus clowns", but they're just clowns that seem to consistently produce reduced patterns. His clown is a reduced pattern, so obviously it's genetic. That's the "line" he's working with. From what I've read, there is the clown that VPI proved out, and the big giant clowns that come from BHB. The ones that come from BHB seem to have more holes in the black back, and funkier patterns. This is just from what I've seen, but I've only seen like 4 or 5 ads, and only 1 of them had multiple clowns from the same line pictured.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

or you could go against everyone's advise like I did and get a breeder clown male to breed to multiple morph females.
I have no clown females, but my male has banked well over 10k in babies in 2 seasons of breeding.
Would I like a clown female, heck yes, but my male clown has made me far more than growing up a female clown first :snake:

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You have some good morph gals, but I don't think the OP has many right now. He has 1 pastel gal to possibly breed a clown to in his signature lol. Not many options =p. I got a clown female because I want to produce my own clown stuff right away. I didn't really consider the money part. I'm just impatient so I wanted a shortcut that could fit my budget :gj:.

From what I've been told by people producing reduced pattern clowns, you use a banded reduced pattern normal to make hets, and then getting the genetic reduced pattern into the clown when you produce it.
Not sure since I have yet to produce clowns only morph hets, hopefully that changes this season with our yellowbelly X hets pairings and yb het X yb het pairings.
I just want to produce a few female clown/clown combo's, not too much to ask I don't think :P

Your correct right now i just have a sort of rescue pastel and a normal (my first BP). I am in no rush at all, as i said, a few years down the road. Im simply learning and reading as i go. Money isnt really in consideration atm. It will be when i get closer to actually makeing my purchases. I do understand the business aspects. its the genetics im still curious about. Just watching you guys debate a bit on patterns and such taught me as well. Mind if i ask where you guys do most of your research. Is it the forums here or things more like reptile report and world of ball pythons?

I have also considered buying adult's as well. I often see sales of proven breeders and such through mailing lists and just browseing breeders sites. BHB's got a few males up for an END of the world sale right now. And i often see JKR collection reduction sales of males and females. My budget after a few years of saveing may not be limited to only hatchlings and hets. Obviously i cant say for sure since i cant see the future. But one can dream haha. I more asked about clowns and enchi specifically because they catch my attention and i would like very much to work with them. My want list has many other morphs on it that would go well with both. Keep the info comeing im very much enjoying the response's im getting.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

or you could go against everyone's advise like I did and get a breeder clown male to breed to multiple morph females.
I have no clown females, but my male has banked well over 10k in babies in 2 seasons of breeding.
Would I like a clown female, heck yes, but my male clown has made me far more than growing up a female clown first :snake:

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Great point! Why not make money now on the hets instead of waiting 2-3 years for money. A pastel het clown or enchi het clown will do nicely!!!!