Bet you don't see this too often...

A pairing where the female is smaller than the male! :D

I finally decided to introduce my ~2100g Mojave male, Julius, to my 1315g Lesser female, Cordelia - go BELs!! I know she's a bit under that 1500g mark, but she is over three years old, and slow-growing because she can't take large prey due to a neck kink. I've shared her story & photos on here, and most/all seemed in agreement that I could breed her this season (and that the kink isn't likely genetic).

Anyway, they're not locked yet, but literally just met about 20 minutes ago... and I'm not too worried about Julius, my ultimate stud, who had sired 11 babies by his second birthday. If anyone can get the job done, it's him! LOL

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/IMG_2897.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/IMG_2888.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/IMG_2890.jpg

P.S. I've increased Cordelia's number of mice (I won't risk anything larger than adult mice) per feeding, from 2 to 3, so I imagine she'll be well over 1500g come springtime. She's a total pig, and as of yet, has never fasted except during sheds.

Why no rats?


0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)

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Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp

Why no rats?

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He said she has a neck kink.

That could hinder feeding to the point of full restriction ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sand

He said she has a neck kink.

That could hinder feeding to the point of full restriction ;)

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Yep. I don't know for sure that she'd have a problem (constricting and/or swallowing), but it's not worth taking a chance... so I just give her multiple mice instead, as I do for a few other live feeders in my collection. They might not get BIG that way, but as you can see, she is perfectly healthy!

P.S. Not that it matters, but I'm actually a "she." ;)

Oh, and if you're asking why not SMALL rats, I sometimes do give her those... but right now I have a tiny rat colony (due to space issues), so when I have to buy extras, mice are just easier and cheaper to get.

On that note, is there any advantage to a similarly-sized rat vs mouse? I know that's been debated here, but can't remember the general consensus.

I've heard that mice are less nutritious than rats for BPs even though I would think it depends on what you feed the mice or rats. Other than that, I think it's just a financial thing, it's cheaper to buy a big rat than three mice.

Rats tend to have a higher fat content, and more meat on their bones, than mice. I can personally vouch for rats over mice since we fed my pet normal boy mice for many months before switching him over to rats with everyone else, and he went from inching along to growing like a weed. But it's really up to you if you wanna risk it. Rats do tend to be a bit hardier than soft little mice. And that might make it more difficult on her kink. But it's your choice in the end. Whichever way you're happy.

I generally disagree with your decision to breed a kinked animal, but I'll assume you have carefully weighed the decision before making it.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

P.S. Not that it matters, but I'm actually a "she." ;)

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My apologies. And as far as Rats Vs Mice.. From everything I've read Rats Pup =/= Adult Mouse weight and size wise, that being said I tend to lean more towards rats over mice.

Good luck, and I hope that the neck kink isn't genetic. They're both gorgeous animals!

Simple reasoning behind micr vs rats is SIZE. One rat vs 2-3 mice if youre feeding 1 rats 2.99 vs 3 mice 1.50 each!!! They grow and get nutrition almost the same when comparimg 3 mice to 1 rat. Personal preference

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mercerasian

I've heard that mice are less nutritious than rats for BPs even though I would think it depends on what you feed the mice or rats. Other than that, I think it's just a financial thing, it's cheaper to buy a big rat than three mice.

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Mice are less nutritious than rats? Is it the fat/protein ratio or something else? What is the ideal ratio? Please cite your source as I won't be taking your word for it. I am not aware of these scientifically rigorous studies.

Sorry didn't see the link part


0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)
1.0 Spider (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)

0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 BCI (Kiyoko)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Mice are less nutritious than rats? Is it the fat/protein ratio or something else? What is the ideal ratio? Please cite your source as I won't be taking your word for it. I am not aware of these scientifically rigorous studies.

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Well I don't have an exact source, I've seen in on the forums and the breeder I pick up my feeders from said that so that's why I said "I've heard...". I was just putting it out there that that's what I've heard before.

I have seen another post where someone broke down the caloric difference between mice and rats and most of the parameters were very similar. The general take-away I got from it is that rats and mice are largely similar and that one could make the distinction that rats offer more nutrition, it probably falls within the error rate of statistical significance. There have been many posts on this topic before so and it does appear that it has been evaluated anyway and feel free to spend your time searching the key words to find the thread.

I also hope the kink is not genetic and good luck on your clutch!

Thanks all, but I really didn't mean for this to turn into a rat vs mouse debate! As I said, she can't take anything BIGGER than a mouse, which means when I do feed her rats, they have to be multiple pups/hoppers - so in this case, it actually is cheaper to feed her 2-3 mice vs 2-3 rats.

As for the kink, I had a whole thread on that a while back, and most/all were in agreement that it was worth breeding her once. There is no known genetic kink in the lesser morph, and given how hers looks, it was most likely an injury or incubation issue... but of course, I will retire her immediately if any babies show a kink too. Anyway, let's just focus on how stinking cute they both are! :D

ive had 1100 gram females go and lay 5 to 6 egg clutches, always healthy. gd luck:gj:

Nice! Good luck! I have one male that is huge compared to a few girls I've been breeding him with, it's so weird to see them together!

Btw, they're locked now... knew I could count on Julius! ;)

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/IMG_2899.jpg

Good luck, fingers crossed for some BEL's :thumbup:

Sent from my EVO Design using Tapatalk 2.

I don't think one is better than the other as far as nutrition goes. Here is a pic I posted on a forum last year. It is sub adult or sm mouse and a rat pup. This is the typical size mouse I was getting at the pet store at the time. The mouse in the pic weighed 19 grams and the rat pup weighed 31 grams. Your snake is getting one and a half times the food for the same energy used. I cannot comment on whether the ratio remains the same as the rodents increase in size.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q.../Snakes064.jpg

Kinks in Lessers has been shown to be genetic. I didn't find this out until a couple of months ago. We produced a clutch of unrelated Lesser X YB and the lessers had kinked necks. I've seen other people have also experienced this as well. Hope your girl does well and you hatch healthy critters. :)

I had rat pups subbed in for mice my last order and my cornsnakes packed on the grams a lot faster then they did with mice. I spaced out the feeding from every 7 days to 10-14 days with the rat pups. I never did weigh the differece in an adult mouse vs a rat pup.


If the expense is too much why not start breeding your own? I wish we could breed rats here in Alberta, I have a colony of asf's, mice and hamsters. So that helps keep my collection fed.


Also keeping my fingers crossed that the kink is not genetic! I'd love to make some BEL's myself one day! I only have 2 bp's currently a male 2011 orange ghost and a 2012 het og(my xmas gift )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zues

I don't think one is better than the other as far as nutrition goes. Here is a pic I posted on a forum last year. It is sub adult or sm mouse and a rat pup. This is the typical size mouse I was getting at the pet store at the time. The mouse in the pic weighed 19 grams and the rat pup weighed 31 grams. Your snake is getting one and a half times the food for the same energy used. I cannot comment on whether the ratio remains the same as the rodents increase in size.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q.../Snakes064.jpg

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This ^^

Thanks all for the input & best wishes! I have already considered the different feeding options, though, and what I do works best for me & my snakes... I've been keeping snakes for 4 years, and have tried just about every combination in that time. ;)

As for why I don't breed my own, there is simply no room in my current place. I live in a one-bedroom apartment with a 47lb dog, 3 cats, and 28 snakes - so there's literally nowhere to fit an entire rodent rack, at least not without making the place smell like a zoo (not to mention keeping them safe from nosy cats/dog).

I do have one cage of rats who live in the bathroom, but they haven't been producing anything lately... probably a combination of them getting old and the room being cold, so I'll have to start fresh if I want more baby rats. Wish I did have the space, but as anyone familiar with this area knows, it's very difficult for a single person to afford more than one bedroom! :(

Anyway, thanks again for the input, and I'll keep you updated.

P.S. Keep in mind that I never talked about what my entire collection eats, I only mentioned feeding mice to Cordelia... my others get a variety of prey, including both live & f/t or p/k mice and rats. Everyone is healthy, and I've learned over the years what works best for each snake. They're a picky bunch (at least the BPs are)!

I feed my mousers retired breeder mice.

They're huge and comparable to a small rat and have a high calcium and fat content compared to normal large mice. But my rodent supply shop has them plentifully available.

That's what they told me anyway.
And it may just be my luck but my big normal female is monsterously huge and has been on retired mouse breeders for about 2 years. She's gave me 2 clutches of 7 & 6 eggs of the whitest eggs and BIG babies both times
I don't see anything wrong feeding mice to problematic feeders as long as they are healthy and happy.

Good Luck:cool: