Thoughts for Clown morphs....

Two bp's I never planned on owning have me quite interested at the moment... first Pieds, and now Clowns.

My Pied situation is all set, but I just picked up a 0.1 Clown from Mike Wilbanks. It will be a few years since she's just a 2012, but I'm wondering what may be a good selection for a visual or Het male Clown come next summer. I have seen quite a few Pastel Clowns that look really nice.

Just wondering what some of you may throw at her.... single gene wise? I really prefer lighter colors and lots of blushing and thats why I was thinking a nice Pastel Clown would be a good entry point.

Other ideas?

Lesser, fire, or enchi (het) clown.
All are light and/or have nice blushing.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Enchi het clown I would say too ha I want a enchi clown pied but idk if that's possible I'm still new to the many morphs sadly haha

Lesser clowns sometimes come out really cool. Im not crazy about the clown gene. A few of the combos look neat though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

Lesser, fire, or enchi (het) clown.
All are light and/or have nice blushing.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

---

I like the Enchi idea. I've been thinking about picking up an Enchi anyways.

We will see what is available in Daytona as it will likely take me that long to save for one!!

I think cinnamon clowns are super hot!

I really like spider clowns, love enchi clown....and I'd be willing to bet that OD clowns are going to be real nice.

I might know a certain someone with a male yellowbelly het clown :w00t:

With a female clown I would be using a morph het clown if you can't afford a pastel clown or other clown combo male that way you are making clown combo's hopefully your first pairing.

Get a banana male and make your own het clowns. Is love to see the final product of the breeding trial. Or if that's out of your budget as it is for most of us I'd love to see a het red axantic clown.

there's so many ways to go with clown combos and produce some very nice stuff. thats why they are so hot right now. the clown is my biggest project. your female (your avatar pic) is very nice, congrats on her! don

I'd love to see a calico clown.

The coral glow clown is one of the most impressive ball python crosses out there to date. One day I'll see one coming out of the egg but until I hit the lotto ill be shooting for lesser clowns, fire clows and black pastel clowns. I have yet to see a clown combo I've disliked.

Sent from my galaxy s3 on tapatalk2

Bee het clown or het red het clown!


My goal in life is to hit a Asystole (Bumble bee het red clown)....hence my choices.

Het red clown has been produced, as has black pastel although I've yet to be privy to pictures of the black pastel clown.
We are doing clown X mojave, pinstripe and bumblebee this year, along with a normal or two.
Not too many bad clown projects at this point, go with one you think will blow your mind, there's a bunch of morphs that have yet to make it into the clown projects.

So many things work so well with clowns.

I currently stay away from traits where the homozygote is patternless or colorless (lessers, fires, yellowbellies), though I will likely add them in later on in projects. I do REALLY want a super pastel super enchi hypo lesser some day, and working fire and/or yellowbelly into stuff can really make it pop.

However, for taking just about any project and making it pop, it's pretty easy to find a way to work with pastels and hypos. Enchis are in high demand and hard to get a hold of and plain expensive, but are #1 on my list to add on to my SPOG project.

Enchi clowns are pretty ridonk, but so are killer clowns.

I could always make my own Hets from my current stock, but that puts me behind in producing visuals.

I have a Bumblebee, Lesser, Mojave, FireButter, Lemonblast and a Black Pastel who is 100% Het Pied.

I'm always torn between making my own Hets vs just buying a visual or Het and getting a jump on the game. I'd obviously see a quicker return even with a buying a Pastel Clown vs making Hets.

Saving for a visual at this point since I have a few years.

I personally would get a ghost het clown, hold back a baby clown het ghost and make candied clowns one day.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Cg/banana clowns are really nice.
I'm sure the flatline must have clown and probably enchi in it. That's by far the nicest ball python I've seen.

I would get another female or two and make your own hets. Nuclear clown would be sweet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joebad976

I would get another female or two and make your own hets. Nuclear clown would be sweet.

---

You're getting all up in my mind with that one.... Nuclear's are on the horizon here already.

I don't think you can go wrong with anything x clown. Personally I haven't seen a bad clown combo yet. Pastel clown is probably my least favorite clown combo and it's still a stunner!

I'm planing on making kingpins het clown in a few years, and hopefully will hit kingpin clown - should be awesome! But that's probably 3-5 years away :(. Also would like to see Clown x Pinstripe combo (I'm surprised that it hasn't been produced yet :O).

Nuclear Spider Clowns in a few years if I can hit some odds :gj:

Trying to convince the hubby to let me try for axanthic clowns in the future, and lavender snows. Apparently I want to go crazy trying to hit the doubles.

The ultimate for me would be super enchi lesser clowns, but I'm hoping to make hets next year :D. I also wouldn't mind a bumblebee clown or a potion clown :gj:. Depending on what I pick up next year, I might have a few extra possibilities, but we'll see :P.

Clowns are my favorite recessive morph. Ultramels are really close behind though. Ultramel clowns.. Oh baby.. I need more recessive in my collection :tears:.......

I'm pairing my pastel het clowns again this year hoping for at least a pastel clown. Next year? ;)

I want to make a super enchi candied clown someday. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPreptiles

I'm planing on making kingpins het clown in a few years, and hopefully will hit kingpin clown - should be awesome! But that's probably 3-5 years away :(. Also would like to see Clown x Pinstripe combo (I'm surprised that it hasn't been produced yet :O).

---

There's a number of the simple ones not shown yet.
Whether they've been done yet I'm not sure, maybe they are being hidden?
YB clown is another one, while I'm shooting for that and Ivory clowns this year I've only seen pastel yb clown and lesser yb clown, but not a single yb clown posted yet :rolleye2:

We just got our first lock ups with clown X pinstripe today. I know there is hets out there but I prefer to make mine :)
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/PICT0215.jpg

Ill just be making Hets this year as I also somehow managed to get a proven 1.0 Clown breeder from Mike as well. My wallet is screaming and mega OT is in my future.

I have a few possibles to throw him to. I have a Pinstripe I have been saving for Nuclear Spiders, but may well give her up for Het Spider Clowns?? Tough call for me as I really want a Nuclear Spider.

This thread makes me want to spend money!!!! This is for sure a gene I am adding to the collection very soon! Id like to do an enchi fire clown someday... But would just be happy with some clown.

I just hatched a female clown and super pastel 66% het clown, so I'll be looking for a nice male for them next year.

everyone that's talking about breeding their visual clown to female morphs to make some kind of morph het clowns. are these females virgins? you do know that even when a female lays she can still retain sperm.
a lot thinks that if a female had eggs to this male this year. if I breed him to the clown next year they will all be 100% het for clown. they might be and then they might not be. you can't be sure and a lot of breeders do this and sell them as 100% hets.
I'm planning on getting a male desert ghost (recessive) and I'm already picking out yearling (females) that will be for this breeding only. since we're talking about hets, this would be some good info to throw out there.

I have 4 virgins.... one Spider and 3 Normals.

I have a virgin Pastel, but I already threw my 1.0 Pied to her.... no idea I would have gotten into Clowns or I would have saved her.

My 1.0 Clown will see a few normals at least. The Spider is really being saved in hopes that my FireButter makes plugs soon, or she will see the Clown. Im really wanting a Nuclear Spider and that would possibly get me a Nuclear Spider Clown down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by don15681

everyone that's talking about breeding their visual clown to female morphs to make some kind of morph het clowns. are these females virgins? you do know that even when a female lays she can still retain sperm.

---

I agree with the virgin part, that is a very good point and crucial if you want to guarantee your hets.
I'm not so sure on retaining when they dropped eggs the previous year though, if that has happened it has to be extremely rare, but lets just say I'm skeptical.

I bet you'll find many breeders breeding recessive traits to females that gave them eggs the previous year.
I have bred virgins to make all of my morph hets except this year I'm doing bumblebee again to clown.
She went last year but was bred to our clown and delivered a sweet clutch.

Colin Weaver has a great article when dealing with breeding recessives. I don't have the link handy, but it is on his site.

I would not stake my name on a 100% sure Het if I bred it to a something else the prior year. Maybe just me, but I want to be sure the female Het I waited 2-3 years for is really a 100% Het.

I would be more upset if a customer found out down the road it was not a 100% Het.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I agree with the virgin part, that is a very good point and crucial if you want to guarantee your hets.
I'm not so sure on retaining when they dropped eggs the previous year though, if that has happened it has to be extremely rare, but lets just say I'm skeptical.

I bet you'll find many breeders breeding recessive traits to females that gave them eggs the previous year.
I have bred virgins to make all of my morph hets except this year I'm doing bumblebee again to clown.
She went last year but was bred to our clown and delivered a sweet clutch.

---

we always thought the same that if they dropped eggs, you could breed to what ever.until a breeder that I know had this happen to him. it wasn't a ball python but a python. So I wrote V.P.I. and asked about this topic, retaining sperm even after laying. and I spelled it out about breeding a recessive male to a female after that female dropped eggs. tracy email me back the same day confirming this. and also knows a few breeders that this has happen to. getting hatchlings from the male that the female was bred to and had eggs between the two breedings. is it rare, I hope so. but can you call them 100% if you breed this way? I don't think so.

Does the same thing apply to male recesive breeding with a normal femle (example) that last season bred with different male - and can you tell that all normals from this clutch are 100% hets? Or you should not since you don't know if that's not retained sperm from last years male?
This is pretty interesting topic I guess :).

IMHO parthenogenesis happens semi regularly in ball pythons so the only way to be absolutely sure of your hets is if someone would develop a commercial paternity test.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GPreptiles

Does the same thing apply to male recesive breeding with a normal femle (example) that last season bred with different male - and can you tell that all normals from this clutch are 100% hets? Or you should not since you don't know if that's not retained sperm from last years male?
This is pretty interesting topic I guess :).

---

if you bred a virgin normal female to a few different recessive males (clown, albino, ghost ect..) and had eggs. most likely they are 100% hets. but het for what is what you will then need to find out. parthenogenesis happens, semi regularly, I'm not sure about that, but if it is, I would like to see the studies on parthenogenesis in snakes. from what I read, it's more common in reptiles but still a rare occurance and the hatchlings would all be females. so the only way that for sure you have 100% hets is if the female is the recessive that you're trying to breed for. example if you're trying to get pastel clowns, if the mother is the clown and father super pastel then they all would be pastel 100% het clowns.

One would know if parthenogenesis happened because all of the offspring would be exact copies of the dam.
So if you breed a clown male to a mojave female, all of the offspring would be female mojaves.
At that point I'm assuming you'd have to hold them all back or sell them as regular mojaves

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RandyRemington

IMHO parthenogenesis happens semi regularly in ball pythons so the only way to be absolutely sure of your hets is if someone would develop a commercial paternity test.

---

Then we'd start seeing ball pythons on Maury, "You ARE the father!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by don15681

if the mother is the clown and father super pastel then they all would be pastel 100% het clowns.

---

In this pairing situation, if the clown female had a parthenogenesis clutch none would be pastel, they would all be clowns? or het clowns? but none would be from the male side, so no pastels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

In this pairing situation, if the clown female had a parthenogenesis clutch none would be pastel, they would all be clowns? or het clowns? but none would be from the male side, so no pastels.

---

agreed, I should of used a normal male to include parthenogenesis. not a superpastel. my point is the only way you can be 100% sure that the hatchlings are 100% hets is if the female is the visual recessive morph. not the male.

parthenogenetic offspring may have anywhere between all and half of the mother's alleles. The offspring having all of the mother's genetic material are called full clones and those having only half are called "half clones". Full clones are usually formed without meiosis. If meiosis occurs, the offspring will get only a fraction of the mother's alleles.

Parthenogenesis: is a form of asexual reproduction in which growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization.
parthenogenesis: = parthenos meaning "virgin", genesis, meaning "birth".


gynogenesis is what I think we see the most of with ball pythons.
gynogenesis: development in which the embryo contains only maternal chromosomes due to activation of an egg by a sperm that degenerates without fusing with the egg nucleus

breeding snakes, who thought we would be getting into bio this much. we should of pay more attention when we were in high school :O

Well.... here's what my 1.0 Clown has waiting for him when he arrives after the holiday hustle.

A 2500g Normal girl and a 1200g Pastel. Both virgins... normal just out of QT today and the Pastel is from Gold Coast Reptiles where I got my 1.0 Pied. Pastel is not the cleanest, but she was a steal.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...Medussa001.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...2295152323.jpg