BP Gene Study

Hey Everyone,

My name is Jeremy Giampaoli and I'm a junior in high school. I'm planning on applying to Stanford and realize that I need something to stand out on my application and was pondering the idea of an experiment on ball python genetics. I have access to a fairly high quality private company's laboratory (obviously not billions of dollars of equipment) but should have most of machines I'll be needing. This is just in the development stage and I had some questions to see if my dream could become a real experiment.

1) Has anyone done an in-depth experiment on ball python genetics before? Not just a normal dom, co-dom, recessive trait test, but identifying the chromosomes and gene changes between different morphs?

2) Can anyone with scientific experience tell me if it's possible to extract DNA from two different morphs of BP and be able to identify the discrepancies? Also, if identified, would injecting them into, lets say, a normal BP change the phenotype or genotype of the animal?

3) Would any breeder (or anyone for that matter) in the Southern California area (I'm in Torrance) potentially be willing to loan me a few ball pythons? If I follow through with this project, I would test out the experiment on my own normal BP as long as it is safe. I was thinking just a few simple morphs (dom, co-dom, and recessive) like spider, lesser, and albino or something of the like. If successful, then possibly moving on to two gene animals.

Thanks in advance for your input,

Jeremy Giampaoli

I'm envisioning $20 bananas and $15 Super orange dreams if you could do what you are thinking of.
"If" you could inject dna into normals and create morphs from the offspring, their value would be gone would it not?

OMG OMG OMG I have always wanted to do this.

I'm afraid you will need quite a FEW ball pythons, though, if you want to isolate the genes. The fact that they act like such perfect examples of co/dominant and recessives would hopefully make them easier to narrow down... but in truth, genetics are always messy. And the "genes" in question could easily be sets of genes.

I would pick just a few straightforward, common morphs---spider, mojave, pied, albino---something common enough that a big breeder could possibly supply a few unrelated animals of each for sequencing.

And I would contact LadyOhh. She's in SoCal, she's awesome, she's got a big collection, and she's science-y.

I know that a few people have considered doing something like this. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done (cost and limited application are certainly factors that would deter most) Mapping the entire genome is a serious undertaking that not just anyone can do. Results will be slow for sure (at least at first) and you will need to have a large sample size of all morphs that you want to work with.

Yes it is possible to see a difference but it probably isn't as black and white as you would expect. To ID the exact differences you will need to have a huge sample of each morph and then you will have to find what is consistently different in a morph vs other morphs/normals Keep in mind that it took 13 years to do this in the human genome project (with world class scientists and a big government budget)

Personally unless this would be part of a project with a known company/university I would look for something else. Individual research at the level you are talking about is extremely difficult and chances are it will be hard to get people to take you seriously at your age. To be honest it probably won't do much towards getting you into Stanford anyway. (It's really too late at this point if you are already a junior)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I'm envisioning $20 bananas and $15 Super orange dreams if you could do what you are thinking of.
"If" you could inject dna into normals and create morphs from the offspring, their value would be gone would it not?

---

Don't worry, that's strictly science fiction, the injecting DNA thing. There are probably people experimenting with that sort of thing on stem cells and embryos, but "gene therapy" is a long way from changing a normal into a morph. Don't worry.

What is possibly practical is genome sequencing. In principle it should be possible to do something like the (now basically debunked) dog breed identification test for mixed-breed dogs. So if you have a bunch of poss hets (and I do, ugh), then you can could potentially tell which are the $30 normals and which are the $500 het crazy gene females with just a saliva swab.

And I disagree about it not helping a student get into Stanford. It's true that the scope of such a project is much greater than the OP understands, and the project would therefore be unlikely to be anywhere near complete in the time allowed. But ball pythons are a good species to work with, because the genetics are so straightforward. And experience messing with the lab equipment in question would give an undergrad applicant a leg up over otherwise comparable competitors. Especially if you're applying to a bio sciences program.

(I work in the physical sciences, and man, we love students who already have lab and research experience.)

And I have talked to a guy who works in one of the Biodesign labs at ASU about this. Basically: sequencing genomes for individuals isn't anywhere near as cumbersome as it was even just a few years ago. That's the not same as saying it's trivial, or fast, or easy, or cheap. But you don't need an entire lab of dedicated staff working for years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loonunit

And I disagree about it not helping a student get into Stanford. It's true that the scope of such a project is much greater than the OP understands, and the project would therefore be unlikely to be anywhere near complete in the time allowed. But ball pythons are a good species to work with, because the genetics are so straightforward. And experience messing with the lab equipment in question would give an undergrad applicant a leg up over otherwise comparable competitors. Especially if you're applying to a bio sciences program.

(I work in the physical sciences, and man, we love students who already have lab and research experience.)

And I have talked to a guy who works in one of the Biodesign labs at ASU about this. Basically: sequencing genomes for individuals isn't anywhere near as cumbersome as it was even just a few years ago. That's the not same as saying it's trivial, or fast, or easy, or cheap. But you don't need an entire lab of dedicated staff working for years.

---

The problem is that the OP will need to apply no latter than 6-9 months from now. In that period of time there is very little chance of getting any worthwhile results.

Plus it is nearly impossible to translate things like this to college applications. You might because to work it into an essay and if you are really lucky be able to talk with someone on staff at the university... But otherwise there really isn't anywhere on a college application to put stuff like this. (I know this first hand as an engineering major in college who had college level engineering internships/projects in high school. I had more hands on experience than some undergraduate grads yet I couldn't put any of it on my applications)

Instead why don't you look at why a caramel kinks, a spider wobbles, and why some combos produce ding-dongs. That way you might be able to isolate that gene and treat the animal to produce worry free animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jermajestyg

Also, if identified, would injecting them into, lets say, a normal BP change the phenotype or genotype of the animal?

---

Neither.

Good luck with the rest!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loonunit

Don't worry, that's strictly science fiction, the injecting DNA thing

---

Injecting isn't the best term to describe it, but DNA splicing is most certainly real. Typically this kind of thing is done in the classroom with bacterium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

Injecting isn't the best term to describe it, but DNA splicing is most certainly real. Typically this kind of thing is done in the classroom with bacterium.

---

Glo-fish!

Now let's make neon colored bp :)

I am in veterinary school and have taken a few genetics classes. I have always wondered about this, and I think it would be an awesome project. Here is how I would approach it, though realize I am not an expert on the subject, so excuse me for any errors in judgement! I would use the GWAS approach (Genome Wide Association Study). You would need a very large amount of balls though. First I would sequence a whole bunch of normals (your control group). I would probably pick a recessive morph next since the mutation is likely to be a simple singe gene mutation (albino is perfect- I believe "albino" is caused by a problem with making eumelanin although the animal can still make pheomelanin- beside the point but very interesting!). I would sequence a bunch of albinos and then use computers to compare the genes of the two. You could essentially use this technique on any morph, but in the time you have I would limit it to one simple morph to start. Maybe it would make some good research once you get into the University (because you will!). Anyway, if you know the sequence and can pin point the exact locus of the gene in question, it opens so many doors to other research possibilities...

Good luck! I envy your potential research :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jermajestyg

Hey Everyone,

My name is Jeremy Giampaoli and I'm a junior in high school. I'm planning on applying to Stanford and realize that I need something to stand out on my application and was pondering the idea of an experiment on ball python genetics. I have access to a fairly high quality private company's laboratory (obviously not billions of dollars of equipment) but should have most of machines I'll be needing. This is just in the development stage and I had some questions to see if my dream could become a real experiment.

1) Has anyone done an in-depth experiment on ball python genetics before? Not just a normal dom, co-dom, recessive trait test, but identifying the chromosomes and gene changes between different morphs?

2) Can anyone with scientific experience tell me if it's possible to extract DNA from two different morphs of BP and be able to identify the discrepancies? Also, if identified, would injecting them into, lets say, a normal BP change the phenotype or genotype of the animal?

3) Would any breeder (or anyone for that matter) in the Southern California area (I'm in Torrance) potentially be willing to loan me a few ball pythons? If I follow through with this project, I would test out the experiment on my own normal BP as long as it is safe. I was thinking just a few simple morphs (dom, co-dom, and recessive) like spider, lesser, and albino or something of the like. If successful, then possibly moving on to two gene animals.

Thanks in advance for your input,

Jeremy Giampaoli

---

Jeremy,
yes it is all possible however several issues stand in your way.

1) The ball python genome has not yet been sequenced....this would require thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars plus months to years to complete.
2) without the genome having been sequenced yet there would be NO place to know where to start in regards to figuring specific genes out.
3) many many many phenotypes that we see in other animals including humans are multifactorial when it comes to a gene or multiple gene's influences.
4) you also would need to completely map out not just the genes but the on and off switches for genes....this includes temperature dependent gene expression, biochemical pathway modeling in vitro on top of a few other issues.
5) this entire undertaking would require millions of dollars, countless snakes (and you would have to prove you were abiding by federal,state, and local animal experimental laws and regulations) as well as years of research on all of this.
6) the discrepancies found between a normal and a normal would still not even be provable or completely revealing in the ways you are hoping for.
7) injecting an animal with manipulated genetic material is genetic engineering, you run into many ethical and moral issues there....on top of the fact that reptiles are slow growing (relative to many of the genetic engineering organisms used today) and you would have to find a way to ensure that whatever material you inject somehow makes it into every cell in the snakes body in order for it to alter its phenotype and genotypes completely....you are better off focusing on manipulating the germ line cells as they represent the directly inheritable material for the next generation...but also realize biological sex in reptiles is not a XX or XY system like in most mammals.

Also realize some of the genetic material in every species is actually due to retro type viruses that have co-evolved with that species over tens of thousands or millions of years...this will also affect the genetic and genome information and its outcome....some of the material shows up in introns....some does not.

Ironically, i have been pretty busy with school and been on two vacations and am finally getting back to this haha. Just for your information, I'm not (potentially) doing this expecting a fast track to an Ivy League, just as an extra on my app (which i would probably include in my essay). I have a 4.5 GPA and have done many extra curricular activities including 7 varsity letters in 3 different sports and thousands of hours of community service type stuff.

From all the info you guys have provided, it looks like an in-depth, long term experiment is out of the question, unless i am going to pursue it throughout college. Obviously, i dont have millions of dollars and nobel prize winning scientists so i may not be able to map out the entire genome, or even a part. Would there be any way to "dumb it down"? Im not really sure how I would do that because like OsirisRa said, the original experiment of finding the DNA change in morphs would include thousands of animals and is not realistic with just one or two of each morph. Just wondering if anyone had an idea to change the experiment or even have an entirely new experiment that has to do with BP's. I might pursue an entirely different experiment, but would love to include the snakes i love :) .

Thanks for all the input,
-Jeremy

A simple genetics experiment you could potentially do is the characterization of a single morph gene. I would agree with Snake Den on using the Albino locus but I would do it the old old fashioned way and skip any prospect of GWAS or anything fancy. It might still be a bit pricy (most lab work is) but if you have access to a lab that is set up for basic PCR and DNA gel electrophoresis then it should not be something out of the realm of possibility.

If you would like further detail on how to set something up feel free to ping me

One project I'd like to see someone do is cat scans or sequential sections on microscope slides of a normal ball python head and a spider head. That might help narrow down just what is the cause of the spider head twisting. Inner ear problem? Abnormal part of the brain? It's not as sexy as genome sequencing, though.