Quarantine

So I will be getting my spider ball for Christmas and am wondering about quarantine. My father owns the pet store that I am getting the snake from. I know that there are no mites. Can I bypass a full quarantine and just wash my hands before handling my other snake? Any other thoughts?

I don't think I explained it fully enough. I have been working with this snake for a few weeks and personally inspected it for mites and RIs etc. It eats fine and had a good shed a few weeks ago. If I still have to quarantine, is there any alternative to it? Can I take precautions without quarantine?

Double post

Quarantine is a must do, no questions asked, and it's twice as important coming from a pet store.
There's absolutely no way you can guarantee the snakes in any pet store are mite free and or RI free.
Customers who own snakes come in and in many cases handle the snakes to see if they'd like to buy them.
You can't guarantee those people don't have mites on their snakes at home or worse yet, a bacterial RI.
It should be "standard operating procedure" for any snake you bring into a home that has other snakes or reptiles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Quarantine is a must do, no questions asked, and it's twice as important coming from a pet store.
There's absolutely no way you can guarantee the snakes in any pet store are mite free and or RI free.
Customers who own snakes come in and in many cases handle the snakes to see if they'd like to buy them.
You can't guarantee those people don't have mites on their snakes at home or worse yet, a bacterial RI.
It should be "standard operating procedure" for any snake you bring into a home that has other snakes or reptiles.

---

I'm not sure I was 100% clear on the details. This snake is coming from my father's store. One that I can personally guarantee that all reptiles are mite free. I'm in there all the time and have worked with this snake for a couple weeks. I really don't have enough room to quarantine in another room. Can I do it in the same room? If I do it in the same room what extra precautions should I take?

Yes quarantine! It doesn't matter where it came from. A person who sanitizes every minute and showers 3 times a day can still carry colds, flu, and STDs around. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you asked a question, got the right answer, yet you still try and dispute it. Just because you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear, doesn't mean it's wrong. I was all like "pfft quarantine". Then POOF mites. Everywhere. I've been caught once by not quarantining. Never again. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Ideally you should quarantine in a separate room and don't handle the quarantined snake all that much. Things can be transferred on clothing. Some people even go as far as separate feeding tongs and stuff like that. My opinion. Quarantine the snake for minimum, MINIMUM 30 days. Most people will tell you 3 months. No handling unless for cleaning and what not, and when you do, change clothes and straight into the wash for them. Just to avoid any cross contamination. May seem extreme but its worth it in the end. Lots of people have very expensive snakes and all these steps are mandatory to protect their investment.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by interloc

Yes quarantine! It doesn't matter where it came from. A person who sanitizes every minute and showers 3 times a day can still carry colds, flu, and STDs around. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you asked a question, got the right answer, yet you still try and dispute it. Just because you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear, doesn't mean it's wrong. I was all like "pfft quarantine". Then POOF mites. Everywhere. I've been caught once by not quarantining. Never again. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Ideally you should quarantine in a separate room and don't handle the quarantined snake all that much. Things can be transferred on clothing. Some people even go as far as separate feeding tongs and stuff like that. My opinion. Quarantine the snake for minimum, MINIMUM 30 days. Most people will tell you 3 months. No handling unless for cleaning and what not, and when you do, change clothes and straight into the wash for them. Just to avoid any cross contamination. May seem extreme but its worth it in the end. Lots of people have very expensive snakes and all these steps are mandatory to protect their investment.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

---

No I wasn't trying to dispute I was just clarifying. I didn't know if there was an exception. Can I quarantine in the same room? I don't have another room available. If so, is there any extra precautions I should take other than what you just mentioned? I really don't want to hurt my other snake but have to work with what I got.

you asked a question and the members gave you the correct answer. your trying to find a way around it. the answer is, not everyone will quarantine. it the best thing you can do to protect your other snakes. anything short of it you're adding more risk. so if you keep them in the same room. yes washing your hands, keeping the room and both enclosure spotless, handling the new addition last. feeding the new addition last. even treating the enclosure for the new snake with pam (follow the directions that on the can) all will help. but quarantine is best. even with quarantine there's still risk. sounds like you only have one other snake. I have over 100, most are worth more than a grand. so you can see why quarantine and husbandry is so important.

Alright, I'm gonna do my best to have a quarantine in the same room. One last question though, what is the difference if I keep in the same room or in a different room? It's not like I change my clothes when going to a different room. I understand it's better but why?

I honestly would not quarantine in the same room. That defeats the purpose of quarantine. Many illnesses and even mite nymphs are airborne. I know you said the snakes are mite free, but I was just putting it out there.

You have to use totally different set of tools and supplies. You don't want to cross contaminate tools such as tongs, water dishes, scale, and even feeders. You want to work with your established collection before you work with the quarantined animal. That way you can't expose that new animal to the residents.

And I believe 30 days is much too short for a Q-period. I do mine for a minimum of 6 months. Some members even do a full year quarantine. Illnesses and disease can lay dormant for months before becoming active. Much longer than 30 days....

About to get a new snake from a highly reputable breeder....I am aiming for 75 day quarantine...in the same room but I have bought a negative air pressure "glove" box like you see in science labs and medical shows.

Lots and lots and lots of things are airborne....some of which can only survive outside of the body for mere seconds (HIV)...other nasties can survive for hours, and days like influenza, and many bacteria (some even years and decades...nasty little endospore forming bacteria)

And if you absolutely cannot keep them in separate rooms at least follow the order of new snakes last for anything you do. The further apart they are the better...and make sure w/e tools/equipment you use for quarantine stays for quarantine.

For me personally anything going into the negative pressure box aint ever coming out with the exception of the new animal once quarantine is completed. Once QT is complete the entire box and everything in it is getting sterilized.

Thanks for the replies. I don't have a choice but to quarantine in the same room. I have researched and found some ways to decrease cross contamination in the same room. Any other suggestions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

Lots and lots and lots of things are airborne....some of which can only survive outside of the body for mere seconds (HIV)...

---

I agree with you completely....
I just want to add that I saw a medical show, they stated they had a petri dish ( spelling? ) sitting on a window shelf for 2 weeks and the HIV was still active........


Harry

not to threadjack, does anyone take stool samples in to be checked for disease? I usually do a 3 month standard quarantine but want to know if anyone goes extreme.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old Sloppy

I agree with you completely....
I just want to add that I saw a medical show, they stated they had a petri dish ( spelling? ) sitting on a window shelf for 2 weeks and the HIV was still active........


Harry

---

I know it is somewhat different in captive snakes but I don't freak out over germs. Sure I take precautions to not get sick but I have a immune system to take care of things. I'm sure even if HIV can stay in the environment for more than a couple of seconds that it would be in such a weakened state that a normal persons immune system could kill it. Same thing with snakes I can take all the precautions in the world but at some point the snakes immune system has to take over I can't sterilize everything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Old Sloppy

I agree with you completely....
I just want to add that I saw a medical show, they stated they had a petri dish ( spelling? ) sitting on a window shelf for 2 weeks and the HIV was still active........


Harry

---

Yes that is certainly possible although highly unlikely. It also depends very much on what the HIV viral particles/cells were cultured with/placed on inside the petri dish.

Typically though you only see bacteria or fungus being cultured on something like a petri dish (at least in my experiences)...Viruses are usually cultured directly in live animals or eggs, or a nutrient broth of some sort typically in a test tube.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pennstater6

I know it is somewhat different in captive snakes but I don't freak out over germs. Sure I take precautions to not get sick but I have a immune system to take care of things. I'm sure even if HIV can stay in the environment for more than a couple of seconds that it would be in such a weakened state that a normal persons immune system could kill it. Same thing with snakes I can take all the precautions in the world but at some point the snakes immune system has to take over I can't sterilize everything.

---

Surprisingly HIV is an incredibly easily killed virus. Speaking directly to methods/modes of infection...its also a relatively hard virus to be infected by.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

Surprisingly HIV is an incredibly easily killed virus. Speaking directly to methods/modes of infection...its also a relatively hard virus to be infected by.

---

I was speaking about illness in general but it is interesting that such a devastating disease is easily kill when not in an infected person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

not to threadjack, does anyone take stool samples in to be checked for disease? I usually do a 3 month standard quarantine but want to know if anyone goes extreme.

---

For parasites. I check mine mostly for parasites rather than disease. Most disease screening is through blood work.

Many of us do a once a year fecal on the entire collection. And some people do it for all of their new additions.
It's good to check, especially since a lot of people don't know what's in their feeders.
I breed my own, so all of my rats are dewormed once a year.

Satomi, how much do decals cost? Also I have never de-wormed my rodents, is that tue same process as deworming a dog?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

Satomi, how much do decals cost? Also I have never de-wormed my rodents, is that tue same process as deworming a dog?

---

Like $20-25. Sometimes more or less depending on your vet.

It's similar to deworming puppies.
I use horse Dewormer paste or Ivermectin from the feed store because it's easy to get and is cheap. It also works really fast.
It comes in a big tube and I just use a needless syringe to give orally to the rats. The dosage is about .01-.02 cc per rat (rice grain size).
And you shouldn't treat pregnant/nursing mother and pups under 2 weeks old.

(Ivermectin can also be injected subq if you wanted)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satomi325

I honestly would not quarantine in the same room. That defeats the purpose of quarantine. Many illnesses and even mite nymphs are airborne. I know you said the snakes are mite free, but I was just putting it out there.

You have to use totally different set of tools and supplies. You don't want to cross contaminate tools such as tongs, water dishes, scale, and even feeders. You want to work with your established collection before you work with the quarantined animal. That way you can't expose that new animal to the residents.

And I believe 30 days is much too short for a Q-period. I do mine for a minimum of 6 months. Some members even do a full year quarantine. Illnesses and disease can lay dormant for months before becoming active. Much longer than 30 days....

---

Wow! So if you're just starting out and you're frequently adding to your collection you would need a huge house. Keeping each new snake in a different room with it's own tools and feeders for a minimum of 6 months, I would think you'd run out of rooms pretty quick. A one year quarantine would require a mansion. :P

Quote:

---

Wow! So if you're just starting out and you're frequently adding to your collection you would need a huge house. Keeping each new snake in a different room with it's own tools and feeders for a minimum of 6 months, I would think you'd run out of rooms pretty quick. A one year quarantine would require a mansion

---

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At what point does a 1yr quarantine room just end up being a second snake room? Or do you keep them all separate? What about eggs you hatch yourself from your own breeding stock. I wouldn't image they get quarantined, but I'm not a breeder either so I'm unsure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captainjack0000

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. At what point does a 1yr quarantine room just end up being a second snake room? Or do you keep them all separate? What about eggs you hatch yourself from your own breeding stock. I wouldn't image they get quarantined, but I'm not a breeder either so I'm unsure.

---

I don't think breeders quarantine there hatchlings because they have no outside parasites or diseases.

I don't know anything about quarantine. Okay, I probably know something, but comparably little.

If we're talking about air transmission, wouldn't separate rooms be negligible if there was a central HVAC system that circulates the air?

How likely is infection for younger animals. Say I head over to a herp show and buy a 4 week old animal. Is it any less likely to be infected than a 4 year old animal?

Not that death is wanted for any animal, but is there ever a cost benefit analysis done? If I have thousands of dollars of snakes in a breeding operation, then of course a year quarantine seems to make sense. But if I am a dad and my oldest son has a BP and my youngest now wants one, does it make sense to spend $50-$100 on tests and year of quarantine for a $20 animal?

What about cross species contamination. I know it can happen, but has anyone heard of this? For example, are corn snakes carriers for pythons or are kingsnakes carriers for boas, etc. Do you quarantine those as well? What about non reptile pets. Do those get quarantined too?

No hatchlings from your own will have what the parents have. I use a long quarantine period but do not add very often often I have rescues and they are quarantined. I don't know how a breeder would add 3 or 4 animals from separate sources it would take one heck of a system to keep everything separate and clean. I suspect few big breeders do a full on quarantine they likely just have a temp space and use that. I know the larger breeders in my area have minimal quarantine as they need to buy and breed asap.

I too do annual fecals for everyone and two checks for quarantine (a single fecal is low accuracy it really takes two separate tests a few weeks apart to be sure. Every bowel movement may not have evidence of parasites) Quarantine animals also get a blood screen as well. If the animal has not come from a breeder I know and one that has not made changes to the collection in more than a year I also do an IBD screen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I don't know anything about quarantine. Okay, I probably know something, but comparably little.

If we're talking about air transmission, wouldn't separate rooms be negligible if there was a central HVAC system that circulates the air?

How likely is infection for younger animals. Say I head over to a herp show and buy a 4 week old animal. Is it any less likely to be infected than a 4 year old animal?

Not that death is wanted for any animal, but is there ever a cost benefit analysis done? If I have thousands of dollars of snakes in a breeding operation, then of course a year quarantine seems to make sense. But if I am a dad and my oldest son has a BP and my youngest now wants one, does it make sense to spend $50-$100 on tests and year of quarantine for a $20 animal?

What about cross species contamination. I know it can happen, but has anyone heard of this? For example, are corn snakes carriers for pythons or are kingsnakes carriers for boas, etc. Do you quarantine those as well? What about non reptile pets. Do those get quarantined too?

---

I thought that about desperate rooms. In my house doors aren't closed very often so air exchange from one room to the next is always happening so quarantine in another room doesn't make much sense. In my situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captainjack0000

I don't know anything about quarantine. Okay, I probably know something, but comparably little.

If we're talking about air transmission, wouldn't separate rooms be negligible if there was a central HVAC system that circulates the air?

How likely is infection for younger animals. Say I head over to a herp show and buy a 4 week old animal. Is it any less likely to be infected than a 4 year old animal?

Not that death is wanted for any animal, but is there ever a cost benefit analysis done? If I have thousands of dollars of snakes in a breeding operation, then of course a year quarantine seems to make sense. But if I am a dad and my oldest son has a BP and my youngest now wants one, does it make sense to spend $50-$100 on tests and year of quarantine for a $20 animal?

What about cross species contamination. I know it can happen, but has anyone heard of this? For example, are corn snakes carriers for pythons or are kingsnakes carriers for boas, etc. Do you quarantine those as well? What about non reptile pets. Do those get quarantined too?

---

Yes leaving out the moral implications quarantine is not about the new animal but the current animals the truly nasty virus out there the treatment is euthanasia. It doesn't help the new snake one bit for the owner to discover it has an untreatable disorder and have it put down.

there is no higher or lower chances based on age. YES there are the two most terrible reptile disorders can be transferred from species to species boas to pythons for example (IBD) Viperid to Carpets, Paramyxovirus. Neither is cure able.

Quote:

---

YES there are the two most terrible reptile disorders can be transferred from species to species boas to pythons for example (IBD) Viperid to Carpets, Paramyxovirus. Neither is cure able.

---

What about animals that aren't in the same family. Both boas and pythons are Boidae.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

No hatchlings from your own will have what the parents have. I use a long quarantine period but do not add very often often I have rescues and they are quarantined. I don't know how a breeder would add 3 or 4 animals from separate sources it would take one heck of a system to keep everything separate and clean. I suspect few big breeders do a full on quarantine they likely just have a temp space and use that. I know the larger breeders in my area have minimal quarantine as they need to buy and breed asap.

I too do annual fecals for everyone and two checks for quarantine (a single fecal is low accuracy it really takes two separate tests a few weeks apart to be sure. Every bowel movement may not have evidence of parasites) Quarantine animals also get a blood screen as well. If the animal has not come from a breeder I know and one that has not made changes to the collection in more than a year I also do an IBD screen.

---

just curoius how much does ibd and blood screen cost?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

Surprisingly HIV is an incredibly easily killed virus. Speaking directly to methods/modes of infection...its also a relatively hard virus to be infected by.

---

most all infections are by way of the sperm.

mostly either male to male or male to female, only a very small percentage is transmitted from female to female or female to male...

what a sad world we live in.......

Harry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by captainjack0000

What about animals that aren't in the same family. Both boas and pythons are Boidae.

---

No pythons are Pythonidae. Boas are Boidae. Different families pythons are egg layers and boas live bearers. Unrelated until you get to suborder they are both serpents.


Ibd testing is 100$ at the lab getting the sample to the lab will vary. There are very rigid criteria that must be followed for the sample preparation. It is likely best to have a vet do the prep work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eryx Jayakari and Eryx Muelleri all lay eggs. They are in the family boidae.

All it takes it to get lax with your QT procedures one time and it's all over. The way people shuffle snakes around and the way imports are just flipped into the general population runs the risk factor with some species straight through the roof.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Eryx Jayakari and Eryx Muelleri all lay eggs. They are in the family boidae.

All it takes it to get lax with your QT procedures one time and it's all over. The way people shuffle snakes around and the way imports are just flipped into the general population runs the risk factor with some species straight through the roof.

---

How much does QT really prevent the spread of IBD to your collection? I mean I have read it can stay dormant for more than a year. So even with the most strict of QT procedures there's still a good chance of it getting into your collection.

I didn't know the sand boas laid eggs my mistake. It still does not make pythons boas however :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Both boas and pythons are Boidae

---

I feel dumb as I should know this is not true.

I guess I thought they were both Boidae because I've heard people refer to both pythons and boas as "boids".
I guess they were wrong too.

Wikipedia says

Quote:

---

Pythons are sometimes classified as a subfamily of Boidae, the Pythoninae, but are in this case listed under their own family, the Pythonidae. In the same way, the Old World sand boas, the Erycinae, are also frequently listed under their own family, the Erycidae.

---

So maybe at some point Boids did refer to both pythons and boas....

Classifications vary greatly and are constantly changing so no issues. It is a common. Good quarantine will stop the spread of diseases from entering into the collection the issue is what is good quarantine?

Sadly the answer is easy, and a catch 22, it is procedures that stops diseases from spreading to anything else.

The reason why I would suggest IBD testing and now that it is available, retorvirus testing. This allows the shortening of the time line. If the two tests are done and negative the time line for quarantine could safely be reduced. As it stands it should be longer than the a symptomatic period of the possible disorders (24 months maybe longer)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kitedemon

I didn't know the sand boas laid eggs my mistake. It still does not make pythons boas however :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

No it doesn't.

The differences between pythons and boas are generally:

(1) With one exception, boas do not have a supra-orbital bone. ALL pythons have this bone.

(2) Not all boas have labial pits and if they do, they are located between the labial scales. Pythons, on the other hand, have theirs centered on the labial scales.

(3) The premaxilla (an area of the jaw) for all boas are without teeth, while the premaxilla of most pythons are toothed.

As for laying eggs, remember, some of the sand boas are oviparous - the muelleri (West African Sand boa) and the jayakari (Arabian Sand Boa). Granted these eggs are laid very late in the developmental stage, they are laid nonetheless..........and there are other egg laying boas (Xenophidion).

With regards to classification by geographical disbursement: Candoia are boas and do not live in the Americas.

Likewise, there is a new world python.