ok, now im sad

so as much as i love working with bp's. My faith in the market has gone to crap. A few months ago when i was looking at CG's they were 22-23 K for males. Now im seeing them at 17-18K so how within the same season can they drop 5 grand...what will they be at next season!?! Im upset because bp's is what i love the most but with the way this trend is going theres no way i feel good about spending money on them...well crap:rage::tears:

Welcome to America, 2012. People have a hard enough time paying mortgages, utility bills, tuition...hell, even putting gas in their cars to get to work. Don't blame me, I voted Romney. :salute:

Bring on the affordable snakes!!! I'm sure, no, CERTAIN I'm not alone. Do you really LOVE BP's or are they a cash-cow??? :twocents:

over priced from the get go imo

There is many thousands of combo's you can make and still make good money doing this.
Supply and demand still are queen and king in this hobby and the supply is rising and the demand is dropping ...

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

over priced from the get go imo

There is many thousands of combo's you can make and still make good money doing this.
Supply and demand still are queen and king in this hobby and the supply is rising and the demand is dropping ...

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Economics 101.

The market on super high ends will go away unless its the first year of a new desireable morph, some big breeders will trade stock at high cost. But for the general market, there is no snake worth more than 1-4 grand for your average breeder just getting started. IMO you'll get a much quicker return on investment in this day and age with a few $1k recessive morphs, then if you buy the next big single co-dom since it will breed out so fast. But then again, I'm still believing that Genetic Stripe balls and retics will make a come back ... my GS tic that I invested in will be here Wedensday:please:

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Bring on the affordable snakes!!! I'm sure, no, CERTAIN I'm not alone. Do you really LOVE BP's or are they a cash-cow??? :twocents:

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Nothing wrong with trying to make a little money with a hobby. As for bringing on the affordable snakes, there are 100's of morphs and combos that are plenty affordable.

What seems to be spreading like a disease is the ill founded logic that "if a male black pastel costs $XX, and a female hypo costs$YY, then the cost of a black pastel hypo should only be the sum of the two ingredients."

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Nothing wrong with trying to make a little money with a hobby. As for bringing on the affordable snakes, there are 100's of morphs and combos that are plenty affordable.

What seems to be spreading like a disease is the ill founded logic that "if a male black pastel costs $XX, and a female hypo costs$YY, then the cost of a black pastel hypo should only be the sum of the two ingredients."

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Of course there's nothing wrong with making money. My first snake will be approx. $200, possibly less. Listening to people complain about not receiving $25k for a paint-job is like nails on a chalkboard to me... My advice, look at the housing market, then look at your snakes.

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

so as much as i love working with bp's. My faith in the market has gone to crap. A few months ago when i was looking at CG's they were 22-23 K for males. Now im seeing them at 17-18K so how within the same season can they drop 5 grand...what will they be at next season!?! Im upset because bp's is what i love the most but with the way this trend is going theres no way i feel good about spending money on them...well crap:rage::tears:

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You can still make money. Buy a CG male and put him to 10 females. I'll be conservative and say only 6 females lay for you. Then statistically half of those babies should be CG if theyre all normal females. (If you have morph females thats even better). So thats close to like 20 baby CG's. You paid $18K for yours. Sell each of those babies for $15K and you're gunna make money.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

You can still make money. Buy a CG male and put him to 10 females. I'll be conservative and say only 6 females lay for you. Then statistically half of those babies should be CG if theyre all normal females. (If you have morph females thats even better). So thats close to like 20 baby CG's. You paid $18K for yours. Sell each of those babies for $15K and you're gunna make money.

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very true mike, but i look at it like this. I's looking at a ghi because male CG are way too expensive. So, ghi's seem to be in a high demand for the most part but there is an okay supply. Lets figure they sell for 2 grand next year which i think is quite plausible. You pair this animal to 6 normals only 4 of them go. You get 5 eggs from each and 2 are GHI. That's 8 of 'em. You sell a quarter right of the get go and make 4 grand. Well so many people have them that now they sell for a grand and you get rid of the rest. Now, you've broken even. Not including maintenance costs. that's not bad, thats all i really want plus i will be pairing these animals to morphs. I agree with Jerry that it is all supply and demand but i don't feel the market is so flooded that prices need to driven down to this degree

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

Nothing wrong with trying to make a little money with a hobby. As for bringing on the affordable snakes, there are 100's of morphs and combos that are plenty affordable.

What seems to be spreading like a disease is the ill founded logic that "if a male black pastel costs $XX, and a female hypo costs$YY, then the cost of a black pastel hypo should only be the sum of the two ingredients."

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thanks i dont mean to come off as the cash cow but i dont think any one would spend 17K for S&G's

If you used that logic a Albino pied would cost a grand

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Welcome to America, 2012. People have a hard enough time paying mortgages, utility bills, tuition...hell, even putting gas in their cars to get to work. Don't blame me, I voted Romney. :salute:

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Economics 101.

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Where you learned Mitt Romney cares about the kind of people that are struggling with utility bills and voting for him would benefit people who are struggling with tuition and mortages.

http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif

It's 2012!! Get out while you can!!!

The price drop makes sense. More are being produced and an early 2012 male has more value then a late 2012 male. If you purchased an early male for more money you basiclaly paid extra for the shot to breed it this year. A June baby may be of size by now but a 100 gram November baby probably won't be of size until next year. If purchasing an expensive male I always try and purchase the earliest in the year even if it costs me thousands more.

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Originally Posted by Ridinandreptiles

so as much as i love working with bp's. My faith in the market has gone to crap. A few months ago when i was looking at CG's they were 22-23 K for males. Now im seeing them at 17-18K so how within the same season can they drop 5 grand...what will they be at next season!?! Im upset because bp's is what i love the most but with the way this trend is going theres no way i feel good about spending money on them...well crap:rage::tears:

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Half price every two years for a given morph, give or take a bit, is the most reliable estimate for future pricing that I can come up with when looking at "for sale" posts going back 8 years. Don't forget that this hobby IS a pyramid scheme.

Take it for what it is, and don't lie to yourself.

[QUOTE=MrLang;1974425]Where you learned Mitt Romney cares about the kind of people that are struggling with utility bills and voting for him would benefit people who are struggling with tuition and mortages.

http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif[/QUOWhat?

Spoken like a true Mass-hole! I'll take jobs over welfare, any day! Such a silly 'lil lib utopia, Taxachussets is! :gj:

This happens with every big new morph. They start out very expensive, then take a big dive. The reason they are so expensive to begin with is because they are rare. Once people start breeding them more, and they become more available, the price goes down.

This has nothing to do with who is elected president or how much money people are making. It is simply supply and Demand.

10 years ago a pinstripe was over a few thousand dollars. Now you can easily find one for 300 and under.

Once the price has plateaued you can start adjusting the price based on gender, age/weight, and the quality of the morph.

But, everyone is saying the market if over-run with breeders. Hell, some are saying they make more $ on breeding mice & rats! Wouldn't that mean bp prices are, just a little, jacked up? How many people are producing (for example) Pieds? There's a ton of them, around. Yet they remain in the $1000 range. Fleecing, in my book.
Also, the current guy in the White House has everything to do with prices. Value of the dollar is going down the toilet. Plus, I'm pretty sure one can't purchase a snake with food stamps...

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Also, the current guy in the White House has everything to do with prices. Value of the dollar is going down the toilet.

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Not sure if serious or being sarcastic. If you're trying to blame the decline of the dollar on Obama, you might want to do some googling. The dollar has been on a steady decline overall, since the mid 1930s. He doesn't have a magical lever that adjusts the prices of everything. Essentially, it's the businesses and the people that help drive the economy. If the people don't buy much, the businesses do poorly, and therefore, the economy does poorly. Exchange of money and goods is what helps things.

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Originally Posted by Raptor

Not sure if serious or being sarcastic. If you're trying to blame the decline of the dollar on Obama, you might want to do some googling. The dollar has been on a steady decline overall, since the mid 1930s. He doesn't have a magical lever that adjusts the prices of everything. Essentially, it's the businesses and the people that help drive the economy. If the people don't buy much, the businesses do poorly, and therefore, the economy does poorly. Exchange of money and goods is what helps things.

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Oh yeah, I forgot. Obama is the Savior, silly me. :rolleyes:

You can not blame the Bp market on just one thing. Right now the Bp market is a "buyers" market. Yes s+d do play a role, but so does all the breeders selling babies for half market prices just to make a quick sale to the new comers that do not realize they are a poor example of the morph. Every year there is a new hot morph that everyone wants. While yes the morph is amazing, but people are to focused on the new morph compared to trying to produce the greatest example of any given morph or combo. For me I would much rather buy from a guy who is taking the time to spend years on a project to produce the nicest example of the morph anyone has seen compared to the guy who just spend 10+k just to have the newest morph to just produce a bunch of middle grade quality of that new morph.
Look at bumblebees I have seen 200 gram bumblebees that look almost like a spider with a brown back. If people spent more time breeding for quality than just because what is hot right now the Bp market could stay pretty steady.
But just my .02 cents, the person who produces high quality morphs will have a better name and be remembered longer than the one just produced the new hot morph for that year.

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

Oh yeah, I forgot. Obama is the Savior, silly me. :rolleyes:

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Oi. Where in my post did I say that (hint: I didn't)? Do I really need to post charts showing that the dollar has been in decline (never mind the fact that it's easy to find. Just google "value of the dollar chart")? It was in decline during Bush's presidency, Clinton's, and all the president's before. There have been blips in the small scale of things where it's improved, but the overall change has been in a downward trend. Just like oil has been in an over all upward trend (excluding that massive drop 'round Jan of 2008).

Honestly. You people need to stop being so rabid when people brings up the president. It's a fact that he doesn't control the economy or the value of the dollar. Which is my entire point. The value of the dollar itself is determined on several factors, which include: exchange rates, treasury yields and foreign currency reserves. It fluctuates daily; it's going to have a different value today than it did yesterday and tomorrow is going to be different from today.

Sure. I wasn't a fan of Bush when he was in office, but I didn't try to claim he was in control over things that he wasn't. That was even before I had the pleasure of being taught politics by a man in his sixties who's seen a number of presidents.

Regardless, I'll end the rant here since I have to get ready to leave to take a final.

He's serious... that's the power of ignorance educated by dogma.

/exit thread

Yep, I make more money on rats than snakes. Rats produce more, quicker, and year round. Easy math right there, even if they are sold for a few bucks.

Lets not forget the people that only look at balls as a cash cow. They buy a very expensive male.. Breed it to 20 normal females and when everyone hatches out they try and make what they can and then sell everything super cheap so they don't have to feed them.
That brings prices down steadily. It's really not one thing or another. It's a range of things that cause prices to go down. Decline of pricing has never deterred me from buying what morphs I like. A lot of the animals I have we're incredibly expensive when I first got into the trade. They were a dream for me to even own much less produce. I produce what I enjoy and what projects have meant something to me this whole time.
When I buy a new animal I honestly don't look at where the market will be today or tomarrow. I buy because if I honestly enjoy that morph and want to work with it I want the best example and I want to produce something awesome.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

okay i was playing with numbers and i want to share this. You invest 120k in ball pythons lets say. Lets say the market goes crazy haywire and all those animals only sell for $100. Lets assume you have 60 females and they lay 5 eggs each. 30 babies at 100 each. thats 30k so in 4 years you could rekoop your investment. lets say 2 years to raise those females plus another year to get caging supplies cost back. so now you have an investment back in 7 years which as a hobbyist i would be okay with now lets put that on my scale. 15k invested and 12 females. With the 5 egg 100 bucks each principle that is 6k a year....thoughts on that?

Just look at the prices of spiders back a few years ago.

Uh..What's CG?.... :)

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Originally Posted by therunaway

Uh..What's CG?.... :)

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Coral glow

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Originally Posted by JeRMz

How many people are producing (for example) Pieds? There's a ton of them, around. Yet they remain in the $1000 range. Fleecing, in my book.

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Glad I haven't read your book then...

Nothing wrong with any prices if people are paying them, IMO. Breeders who put in the time and money to produce nice snakes are under no obligation to make them affordable to the masses.