!!!!And here they are!!!!

Now my friend is not 100% sure on what types of redtails they are all he knows is they are about a year old and they each range from 34-37 inches in length he has had them since they where babies but he lost all the papers he had on them while packing for his move overseas
They have been in QT for a lil while and it was feeding day so they are in their feeder tubs I will take better pictures in the next couple of weeks so far they are doing great

Isis
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...che=1354748466

Nephthys
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...che=1354748472

Osiris
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...che=1354748517

Hope you enjoy he does remember one of the two heavily speckled ones Isis and Osiris are het albino he just forgets which one

For my records I would like to know if they are possible morphs

I'm still learning boas. But the second one looks like it might be hypo. Saddles on the third look like maybe a BCC.

Edit: First one has peaked saddles too.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I'm still learning boas. But the second one looks like it might be hypo. Saddles on the third look like maybe a BCC.

Edit: First one has peaked saddles too.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

---

Ok Pythons I know much more about so please be easy with me but what is BCC and which peaks on the saddles the center peaks or side peaks or both

I know some but up until a couple of months ago I have been out of snakes for going on 12 years previously I worked rescue and owned as pets so I never looked into morphs previously they where all Python - burmese, ball, tree and boa - red, tree , then occasionally some reticulated

BCC - Boa constrictor constrictor - True Red Tail Boas

BCI - Common Boa

I agree I think the 2nd is a hypo.
Maybe that first one is Anery..?

Im still learning Boas myself.

Congrats! They are beautiful, that's for sure! Nom atter what type they may be..

I'm still trying to get to to know boas myself, being and owner of an eight foot one who I just DON'T trust around feeding time, and a lil 24'' inch salmon boa. I don't know what types they are.

http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-ar...nstrictor.html

Nice boas! IMO the second one is not a hypo: looks like a clean normal BCI Colombian to me. The other two are some sort of BCC, they don't look to be Guyanas or Surinames.

Congrats on some super looking boas! :gj:

The second boa is a normal Colombian (BCI). I think the lighting is casting a slightly pinkish hue over the snake which might have led someone to say hypo. But to me, he looks normal. Still nice though!

The other 2 have some BCC influence. What percentage I can't say, but it's there. You won't see peaks on the saddles like that without BCC influence. However they are not full BCCs - or at least one isn't since it is apparently het albino. There are no morphs in BCCs unless they are crossed with BCIs.

To be clear, what you have here are not morphs. They are sub-species. You could say that the one that is het albino is het for a morph, but that's it.

Again, they are nice. Incidentally, being part BCC, the female is apt to get fairly large..... LoL!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Congrats on some super looking boas! :gj:

The second boa is a normal Colombian (BCI). I think the lighting is casting a slightly pinkish hue over the snake which might have led someone to say hypo. But to me, he looks normal. Still nice though!

The other 2 have some BCC influence. What percentage I can't say, but it's there. You won't see peaks on the saddles like that without BCC influence. However they are not full BCCs - or at least one isn't since it is apparently het albino. There are no morphs in BCCs unless they are crossed with BCIs.

To be clear, what you have here are not morphs. They are sub-species. You could say that the one that is het albino is het for a morph, but that's it.

Again, they are nice. Incidentally, being part BCC, the female is apt to get fairly large..... LoL!

---

I agree with everything she said. :gj: Beautiful boas!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ToriTheBallPython

Congrats! They are beautiful, that's for sure! Nom atter what type they may be..

I'm still trying to get to to know boas myself, being and owner of an eight foot one who I just DON'T trust around feeding time, and a lil 24'' inch salmon boa. I don't know what types they are.

---

Thank you and I agree

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Congrats on some super looking boas! :gj:

The second boa is a normal Colombian (BCI). I think the lighting is casting a slightly pinkish hue over the snake which might have led someone to say hypo. But to me, he looks normal. Still nice though!

The other 2 have some BCC influence. What percentage I can't say, but it's there. You won't see peaks on the saddles like that without BCC influence. However they are not full BCCs - or at least one isn't since it is apparently het albino. There are no morphs in BCCs unless they are crossed with BCIs.

To be clear, what you have here are not morphs. They are sub-species. You could say that the one that is het albino is het for a morph, but that's it.

Again, they are nice. Incidentally, being part BCC, the female is apt to get fairly large..... LoL!

---

The second one is pretty creamy pink in person to and the third is the male and the first is the other female is there any way to determine which may be het albino how big are we talking on the BCC influence compared to normal I will get better pictures up by next weekend what background would be best

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

The second one is pretty creamy pink in person to and the third is the male and the first is the other female is there any way to determine which may be het albino how big are we talking on the BCC influence compared to normal I will get better pictures up by next weekend what background would be best

---

Taking pictures of boas of very hard, imo. At least mine. He won't hold still. I have to give him a prop to hang onto, then I can snap a few quick pics. So you might keep a prop handy.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

I do see the darker pigment in the 2nd one. Maybe a better pic outside of the tub.

Take a look at younger BCCs from Brazil and Venezuela and compare those to the first one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Taking pictures of boas of very hard, imo. At least mine. He won't hold still. I have to give him a prop to hang onto, then I can snap a few quick pics. So you might keep a prop handy.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

---

What angels and parts would make it easier to narrow them and against what color background

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

What angels and parts would make it easier to narrow them and against what color background

---

Do you have a light tent? I would get some pics of the head, maybe profile like. Maybe close ups of the face and sides? As for color, idk. Maybe try some black, some white.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Do you have a light tent? I would get some pics of the head, maybe profile like. Maybe close ups of the face and sides? As for color, idk. Maybe try some black, some white.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

---

I do not have a light tent but I can get plenty of pictures indoors and out doors if it helps

For comparison purposes, here are a couple of pictures so you can see the differences between a Surinam BCC and a normal BCI. And also between a normal and a hypo BCI. ;)

Freya, a friend's female Surinam BCC
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...elyredtail.jpg

His normal male BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../normalboa.jpg

Peaches, my own female hypo BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../peaches01.jpg

The BCC pic was taken outside so her colors glow, but note the peaks in the saddle pattern and her blood-red tail. Note the brownish coloration of the normal's tail and the significant speckling in his body coloration. Note how Peaches is very bright pink and there is a notable lack of black pigmentation - there is no speckling and no black bordering around her tail pattern.

The first and last pic look BCA to me. Boa constrictor Amerali

Bolivan red tails.
They have peaked saddles and small tail. Those 2 have small tail vs the standard
imperator boa.

Saddles donesn determine locality.
But things like short tails. Small overall size. And low vertal scale count
Does.
Imo there beautiful Bolivians. Iv had a couple that looked exactly like the first pic.
Bcc boas happen to be some of the largest boas not including anacondas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Freya, a friend's female Surinam BCC
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...elyredtail.jpg

[/IMG]

---

She's beautiful.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

For comparison purposes, here are a couple of pictures so you can see the differences between a Surinam BCC and a normal BCI. And also between a normal and a hypo BCI. ;)

Freya, a friend's female Surinam BCC
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...elyredtail.jpg

His normal male BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../normalboa.jpg

Peaches, my own female hypo BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/.../peaches01.jpg

The BCC pic was taken outside so her colors glow, but note the peaks in the saddle pattern and her blood-red tail. Note the brownish coloration of the normal's tail and the significant speckling in his body coloration. Note how Peaches is very bright pink and there is a notable lack of black pigmentation - there is no speckling and no black bordering around her tail pattern.

---

Thank you for the comparison

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balls&burms_DEA

The first and last pic look BCA to me. Boa constrictor Amerali

Bolivan red tails.
They have peaked saddles and small tail. Those 2 have small tail vs the standard
imperator boa.

Saddles donesn determine locality.
But things like short tails. Small overall size. And low vertal scale count
Does.
Imo there beautiful Bolivians. Iv had a couple that looked exactly like the first pic.
Bcc boas happen to be some of the largest boas not including anacondas.

---

What exactly is low ventral scale count and how is it done and I am sure I can get that for you all as well I know they all have papers that go with them and that he dropped a nice some of money on them but it could be a long time till he finds their papers after a move I spoke with him yesterday evening and numbers 1 and 2 are ara something and the pinkish one is a salmon something and he corrected me it is not 1 or 3 that is het albino it is number 2 that carries the albino gene and something about sunglow
Sorry I was in a wreck a couple of days ago and things can get a lil foggy on the meds sorry

My hypo.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/enubyped.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/havysa8a.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/muqyjeba.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/6edy9e3y.jpg

Also found this.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/9ata8esy.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3skulls

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/06/9ata8esy.jpg

---

Thank you very much that is more helpful to understand what it is you all are talking about. I will also post some better up close pictures by next weekend from this picture here Isis and Osiris look very similar to the trinidad and venezuela saddles more like trinidad and coloring with the more ashy look like venezuela my count on their saddles is 17 or 18 not real sure if the saddle right above the vent counts

Well. Can almost garnertee that those are Bolivians. I just re read. 33-34 inch at one year and they look healthy as can be. Yea def no BCC. If they were a year old red tails they would be severely emancipated and not pretty at all lol.
As for pic 2. If he is hypo. (Doesn appear hypo. But that gene varies). He would be het albino. Breed him to another hypo het albino or albino and see if you get sunglows. That would prove him out.

Heres a pic of a pretty clean Bolivian.

https://www.google.com/search?q=boli...0&bih=218#i=15

What it really comes down is this. Unless you have paper work from a reliable breeder (same as Carpets) you won't know what you have for sure.
There are so many crosses and mutts, people that sold Commons as True Red Tails etc. I think you can get pretty close on guessing but I would never breed them and pass them off as a guess. Just adding to the problem IMO.

With that said, I do have a couple of Boas together now and 2 Carpets that I don't have a history on.
If they produce then I will sell them only as mutts. Release a photo of the Sire and Dam and let the buyer know what's going on. Mutts make great pets, just as dogs do.

Anyway. You have 3 very nice looking Boas and I really like that first one :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3skulls

What it really comes down is this. Unless you have paper work from a reliable breeder (same as Carpets) you won't know what you have for sure.
There are so many crosses and mutts, people that sold Commons as True Red Tails etc. I think you can get pretty close on guessing but I would never breed them and pass them off as a guess. Just adding to the problem IMO.

With that said, I do have a couple of Boas together now and 2 Carpets that I don't have a history on.
If they produce then I will sell them only as mutts. Release a photo of the Sire and Dam and let the buyer know what's going on. Mutts make great pets, just as dogs do.

Anyway. You have 3 very nice looking Boas and I really like that first one :)

---

So another words you are saying if they are crosses from two different localities they are no good as breeders? clarification

complaint - I am not sure how much any breeder knows about where a particular snake is from unless they personally caught it in the wild and then produced from there and every generation handed paperwork to show such. IMO most boas available outside of any of these localities has probably at one point or another been crossed with something

I do understand your take on things that pure bloodlines are best it was much easier with dogs papers you could order their history all the way back to the original sire and damn if you choose to go that far. I have heard of having them DNA tested does anyone know anything about that?

I know they have papers but I shouldn't in your opinion breed the male BCC, Bolivia, ... to the Salmon Female

I am learning Boas and appreciate all the help I am just trying to understand

I'm not saying you shouldn't breed them. I'm saying if you do, you shouldn't label them as a guess. Let the buyer know that there is no paper work, that they could be crossed, etc.

I think it becomes a problem when people dont pass this info along.

Say a kid goes to show and picks up a BCI labeled as a Red Tail Boa. 5 years from now he gets into breeding without doing a ton of reserch. He picks up a BCC thinking he wants to breed Red Tails. Crosses it with the BCI, say the litter comes out looking more like true BCCs. Now he has his own booth selling a cross as a true form. Then the cycle starts all over.
If no one keeps the bloodlines pure, then we might lose them forever one day.

Remember I said I have a couple of pairs going now. I don't have full history or papers. I will not be selling them as a pure line of anything. It would be a guess at best.


I think the bigger breeders of locality Boas have paper work going back to were the snake was caught in the wild.

There are the purest out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

So another words you are saying if they are crosses from two different localities they are no good as breeders? clarification

Not necessarily. Just that you would have to label them as crosses right from the get-go.

complaint - I am not sure how much any breeder knows about where a particular snake is from unless they personally caught it in the wild and then produced from there and every generation handed paperwork to show such. IMO most boas available outside of any of these localities has probably at one point or another been crossed with something

They know because there are ways to document the bloodlines. It's just like keeping detailed records and pedigrees when breeding purebred dogs or horses.

I do understand your take on things that pure bloodlines are best it was much easier with dogs papers you could order their history all the way back to the original sire and damn if you choose to go that far. I have heard of having them DNA tested does anyone know anything about that?

DNA testing can be done on horses and dogs, but it will only tell you if one dog is related to another - you can't get a detailed pedigree from DNA testing alone. I've raised German Shepherds from Germany for years. Yes, I know about this. As far as I know, it is not possible with reptiles - yet.

I know they have papers but I shouldn't in your opinion breed the male BCC, Bolivia, ... to the Salmon Female

No, in my opinion you should not. That would be crossing a BCC (or possibly a BCA, lol) with a BCI. Most boa people frown on crossing subspecies. Incidentally, subspecies is different from locality. I am NOT saying that you should not breed any of these snakes, I just think that you should not breed the BCI to either of the BCCs.

I am learning Boas and appreciate all the help I am just trying to understand

Never be afraid to ask questions!

---

Also, if in fact that BCI is a hypo and that is the one that is het for albino, then it would be considered double het for sunglow. Sunglows exhibit both the hypo and albino traits in one snake. You would, however, have to breed it to another snake that is, or is het for, albino. Albino is a recessive trait and both parents must carry the gene in order to produce it in their offspring.

And for further research, here is a breakdown of boa localities and sub-species as well as the ventral scale counts.





(Originally posted by Vypyrz)

Red Tail Boas are classified as follows:

Genus : Species : Sub-species : Locality

Boa Constrictor Constrictor (BCC)- These are the "true red tails." These are generally the largest in size and maintain their red tails into adulthood. The tail will normally have a distinct red color that ranges from bright red to a deeper, more blood red color. They come from:

Peru
Brazil
Venezuela
Suriname
Guyana


Boa Constrictor Imperator (BCI)- This is the largest group of boa constrictors. Their tail color normally ranges from a darker, more subdued red to a more common brown color. They include the boas from Central America:

Colombia (Nearly all "morphs" of boas come this group)
Panama
Costa Rica
Nicaraqua
Mexico: Tamaulipas, Tarahumara
and the insular islands:
Hogg Island
Caulker Cay
Crawl Cay
Corn Island


Boa Constrictor Amarali (BCA)- Bolivian boa constrictors

Boa Constrictor Longicauda (BCL)- These come from the Tumbes region of Peru. They are also known as the Peruvian Long-tail Boa, as they have a higher scale count from their vent to tail tip than the Peruvian BCC.

Boa Constrictor Occidentalis (BCO)- Argentine boa constrictors.

Boa Constrictor Sabogae (BCS)- Pearl Island boa constrictors


As well as, some of the lesser known sub-species:

Boa Constrictor Nebulosa- Dominican Republic, Lesser Antilles
Boa Constrictor Orophias- St. Lucia
Boa Constrictor Melanogaster- Ecuador Black Belly


It is best to research each of these, as they have different sizes, colorings, and growth rates. Here are a few websites to help you get started, where the different sub-species of Boa Constrictor are discussed and described:

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html

http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/contactinformation/

http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/index.htm


Physical Differences:

-Saddle Shape: Generally the BCI saddles will have a rounder apearance, looking something like this: ( ) ( ) ( ), whereas the BCC saddles generally have an apex in the saddles, much like this: } { } { } { } . While this is a good marker, it is not always reliable.

-Head Shape: The head shape between BCC and BCI may be hard to detect in neonates, but from about 1 year in age, the differences become more apparent. The BCC generally have less pronounced jaw muscles, giving the head a more slender, longer, or uniformly tapered appearance, with a more pointed shaped nose. Also, the size of the head will appear larger in relation to the size of the body in the neck area. The BCI generally has more pronounced jaw muscles and a more blunt or broader looking nose, giving the head a shorter appearance. Also the BCI head will appear smaller in relation to the size of the body in the neck area.

-Scale Count: Scale count is another indicator of Boa type, however, since alot of the numbers overlap, it should not be relied on solely. Scale count + Head shape is the most accurate method of determining the type of Boa that you have. If you are looking for a specific locale of BCC or BCI, the easiest way to ensure that you are getting what you want is to buy from a reputable breeder who will guarantee the genetics.
Here is a chart that was posted on another forum with some basic scale and saddle counts. I left the authors name in the post so that he can recieve credit:

Here are the scale counts for you.

BCC
scale counts - 75 to 95 dorsal rows.
227 to 250 ventrals.
49 to 62 subcaudals.
Average 15 to 21 saddles.

BCI
scale counts - 56 to 79 dorsal rows.
225 to 253 ventrals.
47 to 65 subcaudals.
Average 22 to 30 saddles.

BCA ( Amaral Boa)
scale counts - 71 to 79 dorsal rows.
226 to 237 ventrals.
43 to 52 subcaudals.
Average 22 saddles.

BCL (Longicauada)
scale counts - 60 to 76 dorsal rows.
243 to 247 ventrals.
50 to 67 subcaudals.
Average 19 to 21 saddles.

BCO (Occidentalis)
scale counts - 65 to 87 dorsal rows.
242 to 251 ventrals.
45 subcaudals.
Average 22 to 30 saddles.



For those who are doing research or looking for care info, the following links are to the different sections of "The Ultimate Boa Constrictor Care Guide" by Clay English:

http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...ew-line-40589/
http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...-online-40590/
http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/part...-online-40591/
http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/emer...-online-40594/
http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/feed...ew-line-40593/
http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/inst...-online-40592/

You can also download the entire guide in PDF format free by going to this link and registering:

http://www.redtailboas.com/f110/down...ion-3-a-31312/

Also, here is a fairly in-depth article by Gus Rentfro, Rio Bravo Reptiles, on Boa Constrictor care:

http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/sna...tail-boas.html

Hopefully, all of these links and info will help those doing research, or the keeper who is just looking for some additional resources and info...

-Vypyrz-

Awesome info. Thanks for posting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3skulls

I'm not saying you shouldn't breed them. I'm saying if you do, you shouldn't label them as a guess. Let the buyer know that there is no paper work, that they could be crossed, etc.

I think it becomes a problem when people dont pass this info along.

Say a kid goes to show and picks up a BCI labeled as a Red Tail Boa. 5 years from now he gets into breeding without doing a ton of reserch. He picks up a BCC thinking he wants to breed Red Tails. Crosses it with the BCI, say the litter comes out looking more like true BCCs. Now he has his own booth selling a cross as a true form. Then the cycle starts all over.
If no one keeps the bloodlines pure, then we might lose them forever one day.

Remember I said I have a couple of pairs going now. I don't have full history or papers. I will not be selling them as a pure line of anything. It would be a guess at best.


I think the bigger breeders of locality Boas have paper work going back to were the snake was caught in the wild.

There are the purest out there.

---

Thank you and I agree I wouldn't use the guesses here for breeding info they are just barely reaching the year old mark and breeding is still a ways away from breeding I will only use the info from their papers when and if I do breed them. I can see more clearly what you are saying getting the guesses now is just going to help me do some of my own research until I do get their papers once my friend unpacks them. Since I have been out of the snake world for so long and never got into breeding when I owned snakes before I am very new to the whole locality thing and am finding it very interesting.

Now would you breed different localities of the same major type ie... bcc, bci, bca but different localities of the major archtype sumarian and guanya like I said just curious obviously morphs come from crossing things that would not have naturally occurred otherwise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

Now would you breed different localities of the same major type ie... bcc, bci, bca but different localities of the major archtype sumarian and guanya like I said just curious obviously morphs come from crossing things that would not have naturally occurred otherwise

---

I think you may have missed my last 2 posts. Take another look. That should help answer your question here and also shed some light on locality vs sub-species..... :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

And for further research, here is a breakdown of boa localities and sub-species as well as the ventral scale counts.
Here are the scale counts for you.

BCC
scale counts - 75 to 95 dorsal rows.
227 to 250 ventrals.
49 to 62 subcaudals.
Average 15 to 21 saddles.

BCI
scale counts - 56 to 79 dorsal rows.
225 to 253 ventrals.
47 to 65 subcaudals.
Average 22 to 30 saddles.

BCA ( Amaral Boa)
scale counts - 71 to 79 dorsal rows.
226 to 237 ventrals.
43 to 52 subcaudals.
Average 22 saddles.

BCL (Longicauada)
scale counts - 60 to 76 dorsal rows.
243 to 247 ventrals.
50 to 67 subcaudals.
Average 19 to 21 saddles.

BCO (Occidentalis)
scale counts - 65 to 87 dorsal rows.
242 to 251 ventrals.
45 subcaudals.
Average 22 to 30 saddles.

Hopefully, all of these links and info will help those doing research, or the keeper who is just looking for some additional resources and info...

-Vypyrz-

---

Can you or one of the other describe to me how the scales are counted and thank you very much with so much info floating on the web it is easy for a novice in trying to determine locality and sub species to get very confused with the good and bad information. Which is why I ask so many questions as many of you here are more experienced and can better determine if the information on a site is reliable or not.

I will also have to look into with in the next year or two getting an albino BCI I would love to prove out the albino gene as albino boa and pythons are one of my favorites it is just something about them that is mystifying to me. I will also be sure to post when my friend gets me the papers and info on all three as to what they say.

Now another question and I am sorry if I am asking to many but if I do decide to breed them I want to be able to provide the most accurate information to the buyer of the babies.
What should I look for in the papers he has on them to determine authenticity I guess would be the best word choice? And Would me contacting the original seller of them to ask questions be considered bad rapport?

Thank you all for being so patient and informative.

Yeah see what the papers say. I would track back as far as I could. I don't think any breeder would mind passing along any info they might have.

Me personally, and this is just my opinion, would not cross a BCC with a BCI. If you want to do morphs stick with the BCIs. If the other 2 come back as pure, I would keep them that way.

I want a pair of Surinames really bad. :O

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I think there is room in this hobby for everyone. The purist, the person crossing GTPs with Carpets, Burmballs, the person that only has a love for normal BPs. I just think it's very important for all breeders to keep the best records they can and pass it along with the sell, no matter what it is.

Now if we were talking about Tarantulas, you would be tracked down and shot if you crossed them :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 3skulls

Yeah see what the papers say. I would track back as far as I could. I don't think any breeder would mind passing along any info they might have.

Me personally, and this is just my opinion, would not cross a BCC with a BCI. If you want to do morphs stick with the BCIs. If the other 2 come back as pure, I would keep them that way.

I want a pair of Surinames really bad. :O

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I think there is room in this hobby for everyone. The purist, the person crossing GTPs with Carpets, Burmballs, the person that only has a love for normal BPs. I just think it's very important for all breeders to keep the best records they can and pass it along with the sell, no matter what it is.

Now if we were talking about Tarantulas, you would be tracked down and shot if you crossed them :p

---

Yes I know I have a friend of my husband and I that raises tarantulas and she is very passionate about the fact that tarantula raising is only for the purist.

As I look over the information provided by eve it is more likely they (1 and 3) are BCC than BCA their tails are not short enough considering the information provided. But it is still possible of course that they are crosses as cross breeding on BCC and BCA seems to be popular.

I asked my buddies on redtailboa.net. Short responses so far.
But everyone is on the same page. There ameralis.

There tails are plety short enough. 3-5 saddles. Def BCA. Any consrictor
will have long brillent beautiful tails.

I have a Guyana at 3 years. Almost 5 feet. Slow grown
yearling Suriname and sunglow. Much bigger than yours. By like 40something inches bigger lol. All have 7-10 saddles just for there tail.
Las far as breeding. All I have to say. It's safe to say those are BCA.
No doubt.
I breed boas. I raise boa. I know boas.

And if that hypo is het albino. . It's possible to make sunglows with a mate holding the same genes. Well albino in this case.
Heres that link
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boa...as-please.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balls&burms_DEA

I asked my buddies on redtailboa.net. Short responses so far.
But everyone is on the same page. There ameralis.

There tails are plety short enough. 3-5 saddles. Def BCA. Any consrictor
will have long brillent beautiful tails.

I have a Guyana at 3 years. Almost 5 feet. Slow grown
yearling Suriname and sunglow. Much bigger than yours. By like 40something inches bigger lol. All have 7-10 saddles just for there tail.
Las far as breeding. All I have to say. It's safe to say those are BCA.
No doubt.
I breed boas. I raise boa. I know boas.

And if that hypo is het albino. . It's possible to make sunglows with a mate holding the same genes. Well albino in this case.
Heres that link
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/boa...as-please.html

---

LIke I said I will not rule out any option I got the impression from the information I had read that they werent short enough but as a Novice in identifying these things mistakes happen and thank you for clarifying it for me I will have to look into getting an albino male because I would love to prove out the het albino on the salmon one and I will have to get you guys some better pictures of her as well she is gorgeous and pinkish orange very little black and mostly a reddish brown as her darker color

Vince Russo has the best information with localities and morphs.
Well IMO the best. Plus all my boas are from him.
I'm not tryin to come across as a snob. Or know it all. But I love Surinamese and I live Guyanas.My 2 fav lines of boas. Honestly love all true redtails. (Which array though BCC only). And were talkin the 3rd largest lines of boas. 2 being BCO and 1 being anacondas.

By all means there beautiful. I love Bolivians. Second fav locality. Because there thin saddles and smaller tail. And overall smaller size.
Meet keep posted on your sunglow project. See if I acually proves out. If not worst can happen is half hypos poss het for albino. Then you for sure have the ingredients lol

I wanted to get a Surinam from Vin Russo or Rio Bravo, but could come up with the money this year. :(

Vince is a good guy. I have a few of his snakes. Gus is a good online friend you could say. Those 2 are who I'd recommend to get any pure locality from. There lines are all originated from f1 lines straight from the wild.

Gus has the nicest brazilians and Peruvians iv ever seen. Also the largest Guyana iv ever seen. 14feet.
But. Vince has the leopards and type 2 anerys.
Those guys have some nice snakes lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balls&burms_DEA

Vince Russo has the best information with localities and morphs.
Well IMO the best. Plus all my boas are from him.
I'm not tryin to come across as a snob. Or know it all. But I love Surinamese and I live Guyanas.My 2 fav lines of boas. Honestly love all true redtails. (Which array though BCC only). And were talkin the 3rd largest lines of boas. 2 being BCO and 1 being anacondas.

By all means there beautiful. I love Bolivians. Second fav locality. Because there thin saddles and smaller tail. And overall smaller size.
Meet keep posted on your sunglow project. See if I acually proves out. If not worst can happen is half hypos poss het for albino. Then you for sure have the ingredients lol

---

Do you have sites that I can go to or contact info please

Cuttingedgeherps.com is Vince Russo.
And riobravoreptiles.com is Gus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lady Kat

Can you or one of the other describe to me how the scales are counted and thank you very much with so much info floating on the web it is easy for a novice in trying to determine locality and sub species to get very confused with the good and bad information. Which is why I ask so many questions as many of you here are more experienced and can better determine if the information on a site is reliable or not.

I will also have to look into with in the next year or two getting an albino BCI I would love to prove out the albino gene as albino boa and pythons are one of my favorites it is just something about them that is mystifying to me. I will also be sure to post when my friend gets me the papers and info on all three as to what they say.

Now another question and I am sorry if I am asking to many but if I do decide to breed them I want to be able to provide the most accurate information to the buyer of the babies.
What should I look for in the papers he has on them to determine authenticity I guess would be the best word choice? And Would me contacting the original seller of them to ask questions be considered bad rapport?

Thank you all for being so patient and informative.

---

For more information on how to do scale counts, pick up the book, "The Complete Boa Constrictor" by Vin Russo. If you're going to work with boas at all, this book is invaluable - it'll be your bible. It's expensive, but I can't tell you how worth it it is.

Counting the scales involves taking a shed and cutting it lengthwise. There are pictures in the book on how to do this and it is best left to that explanation. :gj:

Papers are only as good as the person who wrote them. Your best garauntee is to buy from a good breeder with a well-known and stellar reputation and history.

I personally don't think that inquiring of the original breeder is a bad idea, but be aware that anyone can say whatever they want. Again, reputation is key. But by contacting him/her, you can look for discrepancies in what you're told and what you've already been told and what's on whatever "papers" you have.