Flexwatt or RHP, which is better for a plastic encloure?

I have been hearing mixed reports on this and I am currently thinking of getting proline enclosures. From my understanding having both is a waste but does either do a better job of providing requisite hot spot temps as well as ambient??

I have an Animal Plasics T8 cage that utilizes both flex watt and two 40 watt RHPs. The cage is currently divided, one RHP on each side with the 11" flexwatt installed under the middle of the cage. With a herpstat II controlling each heat source, in a room with temps that fluctuate from the upper 50's to the upper 60's this time of year, my ambients fluctuate between 76 and 80F. The RHP has a significant effect on ambients in my set up as opposed to the flexwatt which probably doesn't do anything for ambients. This specific set up represents my entire experience with UTH/flexwatt, RHPs, and pvc enclosures. I have ordered a t10 and will use RHPs, flexwatt, and herpstat again, hoping for similar results.

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Originally Posted by dav4

I have an Animal Plasics T8 cage that utilizes both flex watt and two 40 watt RHPs. The cage is currently divided, one RHP on each side with the 11" flexwatt installed under the middle of the cage. With a herpstat II controlling each heat source, in a room with temps that fluctuate from the upper 50's to the upper 60's this time of year, my ambients fluctuate between 76 and 80F. The RHP has a significant effect on ambients in my set up as opposed to the flexwatt which probably doesn't do anything for ambients. This specific set up represents my entire experience with UTH/flexwatt, RHPs, and pvc enclosures. I have ordered a t10 and will use RHPs, flexwatt, and herpstat again, hoping for similar results.

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I have the same setup in my T8, because I'm using a divider though I went with two 28 watt RHP's.

Here is a picture.

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...1/DSCF0732.jpg

I cannot comment yet on my temperatures as I'm still waiting on the glass doors to arrive to complete the assembly. But since I didn't want to use any type of heat bulbs I choose to go with RHP's to assist with ambient temperatures.


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Typically neither effect ambient temps as both are radiant heat sources. That can be changed by adding objects of great thermal mass that will become heated y the heater and then in turn heat the air but generally speaking this is in efficient. If it were efficient and RHP did heat air they would be dangerous as they typically can run well over 130º and 130º air will do serious damage.

I see you live in Stow. I live down in Canton. With the colder temps of Ohio unless you keep your house closer to 80 the flexwatt isn't going to raise the ambient enough. I had to add the rhp and another thermostat. Now with both I set my temps and haven't had to mess with them in 10 months. Happy happy happy.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, @kitedemon, what is the solution then, I understand the radiant heat process and it would seem that the only solution is to keep the room heated to the required ambient temp and use either one to create a hotspot?

I use RHP and a flourescent light. The Floursecnt light does warm the air quite well and provides a hot spot for the tank above it that generally does not exceed 91 directly over the light (stacked wall of PVC enclosures). Between the light and the RHP with a herpstat on each enclosure, I have no issues mantaining 82 ambient in all the caging with a room temperature at a constant 74-76 with no night drop. The rest of the home is 55 this time of year. But this one 12 x 12 room houses 9 RHP running 24/7 at about 20-30% power, and 12 32 qt tubs and 12 41 qt tubs all heated which in itself raises the room temperature 10-15 degrees plus with my gaming PC set up in that room that thing emits a ton of heat.. . none the less, the RHP works great for my conditions in itself!

I find that fluorescent lights and LED nigh lights hold ambient just fine. Ambient temps have a long range if we look at the bitter ends (I avoid the ends) but 75 at the low side and 88 at the high. (I use 78-85 personally) This is a big target so high precision is not needed. In the summer I often run fluorescent lights for a few hours in the morning and afternoon with LED (deep blue for royals has lower visibility than red) over night in the dead cold of winter I run the led 24/7 and fluorescent 12 on 12 off. The fl lights run a surface temp of 100º or so and led in the 90s. This when the warm air circulates hold 10-15º over the ambient air temps. I add insulation and get 3-5 on top again. This keeps the 70-60º room inside an acceptable range. I find my ambient temps change during the day They start low and gain to the afternoon and drop again over night. My winter low is about 78-9 and highs are 84-5 I build one degree every hour and a half or so.

I have RHPs (two actually) One is used as they were designed in an arboreal set up with vertical gradients and tall ceilings. The other is in a 12 inch enclosure I used it as a test for ages (empty of just snake) and now I use it to hold the hot spot. With light weight hides it make next to no difference to ambients at all. Good thing too. The surface is often 160º to hold a 90º hot spot and if it added substantially to the ambient temps It would cook the snake (10-15% of 160 is 16-24º over room temps. I know way over simplified but to illustrate the point)

RHPs have and are being used in rooms kept at 80º or close to it and it is also clear that the ambient air temps are not in the 90s under these conditions. It either heats the air or it does not, if they do the excitedly hot operational temps (hotter than my UTH get) would make them unsafe in a serious way. UTH gain 3-5% in my tests about the same as the RHP as they are effectively the same. Adding heavy mass that is heated will clearly add some more but how much I cannot guess as I have not experimented with it.

..been using uth , rhp combo for months and man is is GREAT !!!!!!!!

Thanks for the info, I want to get this correct :) Where do you place the thermostat probe for the RHP. I know that it would go under the UTH but I'm not sure about the placement within the enclosure and how to secure to a single spot. I've seen vertical gradient placements of the probe suspended around mid range but I would imagine that it would have to be on the floor of a terrestrial setup and I would probably want it around where the hide is on the warm side, but as my boa gets bigger the hide would become larger too and it may not fit or is that not really a concern?

It looks like I will be going with a UTH and RHP with Herpstat 2/4. I would also include LED's. Where could I get LEDs for my enclosure, HomeDepot or someplace like that or do I need to order reptile friendly ones? Thanks again.

The probe for the RHP can really go were ever you like since what you're really measuring is the ambient temps not a direct spot like a UTH. The probe for my pannels are mounted to the back of my cage towards the very bottom using a screw cable mount.

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Originally Posted by martin82531

The probe for the RHP can really go were ever you like since what you're really measuring is the ambient temps not a direct spot like a UTH. The probe for my pannels are mounted to the back of my cage towards the very bottom using a screw cable mount.

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These are the mounts I used for my RHP probe's. I also used a very small screw to go into the middle of the mount, into the back of my cage to keep the mount in place. I did not want to risk the adhesive failing and the mount getting stuck to my balls.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o02_s00_i01

A couple of pictures on how it turned out

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...-20-58_251.jpg

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/...-31-17_927.jpg

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Originally Posted by martin82531

The probe for the RHP can really go were ever you like since what you're really measuring is the ambient temps not a direct spot like a UTH. The probe for my panels are mounted to the back of my cage towards the very bottom using a screw cable mount.

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"This Infrared Heat tends to heat objects more than the air, much like the natural sunlight outdoors." Reptile basics RHP FAQ

http://www.reptilebasics.com/radiant-panel-faq

RADIANT heat, heat transferred in the form of electromagnetic radiation rather than by conduction (heats objects in direct contact) or convection (heats air and water). This type of heat heats objects not air or water.

"Radiant heating systems differ from conventional methods of heating because they don't try to heat the air in a building or area, but rather transfer radiant heat from an energy source to people and objects that are nearby.The warmth from the sun is the most basic example of radiant heat and it is this principle that radiant heating is based on."

http://www.radiantheatingsystems.ca

Why does physics suddenly not apply to the reptile world? Radiant heaters have been used for years in ice rinks and out door cafes because IT DOES NOT HEAT THE AIR!! That is why you can have them out side and actually still work well. How a UTH/Flexwatt (Radiant heat source http://www.calorique.com/products/in...ing/index.html) suddenly change their nature when mounted in a ceiling (radiant heat source) Most agree UTH do not heat air why is it so hard to understand RHP heat does not heat air?

The only way a RHP can heat air (ambient air temps) is to heat objects inside the enclosure that in turn heat the air. Second hand heating if you will. Placing the thermometer under the panel is only measuring the temp of the thermometer probe and not the air at all.

Probes must be IMMOBILE period. Regardless of where it is located. If they become moved by anything (snake, people, other critters, or children) the heater can easily over heat and send temps far to high. I would strongly recommend that probes be very very securely fixed. I would go so far as to say difficult to remove with out damaging the probe, a dead probe is better than a dead snake. I would also comment again a snake should NEVER be able come between the probe and the heat source ESPECIALLY with direct RADIANT heat sources (RHP and UTH).

http://images18.fotki.com/v61/photos...1/probe-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

"This Infrared Heat tends to heat objects more than the air, much like the natural sunlight outdoors." Reptile basics RHP FAQ

http://www.reptilebasics.com/radiant-panel-faq

RADIANT heat, heat transferred in the form of electromagnetic radiation rather than by conduction (heats objects in direct contact) or convection (heats air and water). This type of heat heats objects not air or water.

"Radiant heating systems differ from conventional methods of heating because they don't try to heat the air in a building or area, but rather transfer radiant heat from an energy source to people and objects that are nearby.The warmth from the sun is the most basic example of radiant heat and it is this principle that radiant heating is based on."

http://www.radiantheatingsystems.ca

Why does physics suddenly not apply to the reptile world? Radiant heaters have been used for years in ice rinks and out door cafes because IT DOES NOT HEAT THE AIR!! That is why you can have them out side and actually still work well. How a UTH/Flexwatt (Radiant heat source http://www.calorique.com/products/in...ing/index.html) suddenly change their nature when mounted in a ceiling (radiant heat source) Most agree UTH do not heat air why is it so hard to understand RHP heat does not heat air?

The only way a RHP can heat air (ambient air temps) is to heat objects inside the enclosure that in turn heat the air. Second hand heating if you will. Placing the thermometer under the panel is only measuring the temp of the thermometer probe and not the air at all.

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According to my thermometer the ambient temp did increase by a couple of degree which is all I was looking for it to do.


"I unlike some have never found more than a couple of degrees to ambient temps to the RHP"


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Reptile-Basics

@ kitedemon quoted from your post on a question that I answered about the same thing (a couple degrees was again all I was looking for). "why is it so hard to understand RHP heat does not heat air?" I never implied it did heat the air like a heat lamp or anything similar would.

With my set up, my probe placement, my thermostat shuts off my RHP a couple times per day (room temp is not changing)...means its working for me.

Yes that is quite likely, most asking for help with ambient temps have more issues than a couple of degrees however. Suggesting RHP heats are is just not true. It is super easy to prove check the temp of the face of the panel when it is on and ask your self if it was heating air it should be with in a few degrees of this right? Mine runs at 100º to 110º on the face if it heated the air this would quickly over heat the enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin82531

The probe for the RHP can really go were ever you like since what you're really measuring is the ambient temps not a direct spot like a UTH. The probe for my pannels are mounted to the back of my cage towards the very bottom using a screw cable mount.

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Looking at this again, I do see how someone could interpret this as a RHP being used to raise the ambient temps, again not was I was meaning to apply. I wanted to note, that unlike a probe being used with a UTH, the probe used with a RHP does not need come in direct contact with the heat source.

@kitedemon, so the diagram you provided above, are you suggesting just attaching the probe to the surface of the RHP itself and then setting the temp at whatever setting acheives the desired temps below? (e.g., setting the thermostat to 115 with probe attached to the surface of the RHP and measuring the surface temps below at 91).

If so, how do you attach the probe? Tape or hot glue?

In addition, it seems like LED lights might be a decent way to bump ambient temps, but are there reptile friendly ones available. Thanks again.