A reptile's sight

I know this is old hat to some of you - but I was curious as to cone/rod distribution in herps' eyes and in the lull that followed that query I did a little poking around:

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Snakes have rods and cones in their eyes, as do we, though in different numbers. They do not have the diversity colored oil droplets (presumed to have been lost when snakes when nocturnal and subterranean) in their photoreceptors that mammals and birds do, so, while they do have color vision, it isn't as broad ranged as ours is. They do have a yellow filter which, filling the lens, absorbs ultraviolet light, protecting the eye.

Snakes use a combination of infrared vision (developed in the trigeminal nerve), variable (by species) visual acuity and color detection, limited eye mobility, and chemosensation to find prey and recognize features in their environment (including their keepers).

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http://www.anapsid.org/sight.html

Interesting site overall to say the least.

Wasn't "old hat" to me. VERY interesting, Smulkin....thanks!

Here's some shtuff on hearing too - more interesting because it contradicts what many of us were led to believe concerning airborne sound waves and snakes' hearing (I take everything with a grain of salt . . . and a wedge of lime) :

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Years ago I found a reference to snakes' ability to hear, but, failing to write it down, could never locate it again. Seigel and Collins, in their Snakes: Ecology and Behavior, were not enormously enlightening: "Although there is meager behavioral evidence for hearing of airborne sounds, there is physiological evidence from several species in six families. In addition, attachment of the quadrate to the inner ear suggests that vibrational stimuli could be transmitted by the jaw. However, vibrational cues could just as likely be detected by tangoreceptors on the venter of the snake" (New York: McGraw-Hill, Inc. p. 121, 1993), which most of us already know ('hearing' by feeling vibrations transmitted up from the ground into the belly muscles).

I was pleased to see a short note about snake hearing ability in this month's The Vivarium (6[3]:24-25). In the "Ask the Experts" column, Winston Card responds to a snake hearing question by explaining that, while snakes lack external and middle ear structures (including the tympanum, or ear drum), they do have inner ear structures which have been shown experimentally to receive airborne sound waves.

Thus, like many other animals, snakes have two ways of detecting sounds: earthborne and airborne. The earthborne vibrations are passed through the belly muscles to special receptors along the spine and thus transmitted to the brain. Airborne sounds are transmitted to the lung from the skin receptors to the eighth cranial nerve and inner ear.

Most snakes can hear a person speaking in a normal tone of voice in a quiet room at a distance of about 10 feet (3 m). Two of my snakes have always responded to my calling their names; it's nice to know I wasn't imagining it!

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http://www.anapsid.org/snakehearing.html

Do they have feelings?

Tactilely.

What?

Meaning that have the sense of touch...tactile sensation...they can "feel"... :wink:

Only in the "touch" sense of "feeling" - you can't "hurt their feelings" but they can feel physical pain, temperature, texture differences etc.


I died when I read the part on "defensive farts" . . . as a father of three sons I have to validate this as a real and instinctual defensive mechanism among mammals as well.

Oh ok. LOL Smulkin I think you have one "drunk" online personality :lol:

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I died when I read the part on "defensive farts" . . . as a father of three sons I have to validate this as a real and instinctual defensive mechanism among mammals as well.

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LMAO!!!!

Here's the link to the snake farting article. Yes, it is real, folks.

And Judy, Smulkin's not kidding. Farting is our middle son's preferred method of defense. :lol:

Oops. Almost forgot: http://www.anapsid.org/snakefart.html

LOL! When I meet him next month, I'll pretend I don't know that! :P :wink: (I'm so psyched! Can hardly wait!)

poof!

Me too, Judy!!! :D Is anyone else joining us? (For those of you who don't know or may have forgotten, we're talking about the Northern Virginia Reptile Expo in Manassass on May 8th.)

I'll post a new (fresh) invitation on the Site Events forum!

anapsid.org is old school as far as herp sites. Melissa has been around for a while, one of the first all purpose herp sites.

Regardless of what you see on her site, and even tho she's written a book on iguana care, she's against us keeping herps. I've read things that trouble me.

Yeah...she's a bit of an enigma, isn't she?

Thanks for the disclaimer, Godfather. It's always a good idea to check out several sources and find a good concensus. We generally defer to NERD's care sheets and the information we find here. I think Smulkin was looking for information on how snakes see, found the snake fart thing, and then started exploring the site. I did wonder a bit when she said ball pythons really don't require much humidity.

Ayup.

And I wouldn'tve bothered linking those that I did had they not been based on previous studies cited. The portion on ball pythons and trouble eating was interesting in it never occured to me to try (as a latter resort) taking the snake out for handling and having someone (who abviously isn't handling) sneak the mouse into the cage while the snake is out.

Bit odd on that non-keeping stance indeed. I googled the site up and only read a few sections (posted) and didn't know she didn't condone keeping - her loss.

Taken from a fauna classifieds thread:

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Melissa Kaplan:"I'd like to see a total ban, but I know that is unlikely. It isn't easy to fight a billion-dollar industry. As long as there are people to buy, exotic animal dealers will cheerfully sell, no matter what the impact is on wild populations or on the animals -- or humans."

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Then, I'd also like for iguana owners to know about Melissa's over use of scientific lingo which tends to make all would be ig owners tremble at the thought of having to concoct very special diets and very special living arrangments, which are not harmful but can be unnecessary and confusing.

Take a look at her website or read all of the things she writes on various iguana message boards on the internet. It's easy to be fooled into accepting everything she says, there's a scary over use of science lingo or medical jargon, and she really tries hard to write things with an obvious overkill of detail and information in some scary effort to sound like a scientist or doctor. I have not seen any creative discoveries in her material. What I do see is an extremely efficent file clerk

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In all honestly if I used some real good scientific lingo and some great anatomy terms to sounds like I know my stuff while also throwing you through a loop, I could tell you that feeding razor blades to your bp would be healthy. Amazing point there.

Great informational link:

http://www.todaysplanet.com/pg/beta/...ver/page14.htm

She also misleads keepers into thinking that their boas will be monsters:

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I looked at her Red-Tail boa page (as I see others complain as well) and here is one quote : "That cute little 2 ounce, 14-22" hatchling laying cupped in the palm of your hand will increase its size by up to 300% in its first year, reaching 5-6 feet during that time. The following year will add another 3-4 feet to its length, as well as several pounds."

Really? Hatchlings, like from eggs Melissa? I did not know that. 9 feet in 2 years? Have I done something wrong, my boas are not even close to that rate of growth?

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She has helped inform a lot of newcomers tho. I used her bp caresheet when I was a n00b. I also think in weblinks we link to many of herp caresheets, but we're phasing all caresheet linking out. Her site is old school, and is being outdated rapidly. I was really troubles by her banning of herps position. She's a PETA activist, so it's pretty obvious what her position would be.

To the herp world she puts up a front of an expert, but behind the scenes she wants our pets to be banned. Never mind the fact that she makes hordes of cash of her iguanas for dummies book sold around pet shops all over. Considering iguanas are an even bigger hassle for rescues that great people like Rusty run then burms, what a hipocrit. It's troubling to say the least. If you're going to idolize anyone, idolize people like Rusty. Who devotes time, tons of cash, and emotional effort into caring for and finding homes for ditched herps.

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If you're going to idolize anyone, idolize people like Rusty. Who devotes time, tons of cash, and emotional effort into caring for and finding homes for ditched herps.

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Amen to that and for proof of this please see this link-
http://www.ball-pythons.net/PNphpBB2...ic-t-2291.html
:) :) yeah I mean you can kind of see where she's coming from - but buying too hard into anything is dangerous (BAN all exotics?) also captivity is most likely going to be the only thing preventing extinction in some of these animals - how bout we go after those burning/tearing down the rainforst and destroying natural living and breeding habitat rather than go after those working to preserve a species or admire, respect, and learn about them.

I don't think anyone was even close to idolizing Melissa Kaplan. We were just amuzed by some of the stuff we saw there.

Oh yeah totally - I think he was saying how easy it is for newbies to find an "expert" and stick with that advice. I saw her caresheet before I came here as well. Thankfully we are all bright enough to check multiple sources.

I fail to see how I idolized her. Both links were referenced to works by others.

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Originally Posted by JamminJonah

Oh yeah totally - I think he was saying how easy it is for newbies to find an "expert" and stick with that advice. I saw her caresheet before I came here as well. Thankfully we are all bright enough to check multiple sources.

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If that's the case, Jonah, then I agree. In college they taught me to always check multiple sources and never assume one is authentic at first glance, no matter how good it seems.

Yeah I certainly didn't get the impression that anyone here idolizes her - or that anyone idolizes anyone for that matter. I personally idolize myself - and for good reason - I mean have you even looked in the new members pics section ;) :lol: :lol: ;)

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I mean have you even looked in the new members pics section

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That was ausome!

Wow what a thread.
I will say that I can agree with the fact Kaplans site can be "oldschool". one of the problems I have with it, is in the fact that it can be hard to understand for folks who have good intentions. It can scare good herp keepers away from the hobby.

As for banning herps etc.
I will only say a few things on that. Education and conservation is key! Our main goal here is to educate the general public on the care and needs of herps. And conservation is also number one in my book. We need more good quality programs in place......
Ok I can go on and on but I don't think it would be the right thread.
Thanks
Rusty

Rusty, I think she does want to scare away potentially good herp keepers. PETA and their related groups actually have as a stated goal to end all interactions between humans and animals. No animals for food, testing, leather is pretty well known, but they also want to do away with guide animals (like seeing-eye dogs), worker animals (sheepdogs, guard dogs, police horses, etc.), and pets. Completely. I can provide links if needed, but the position is as extreme as it gets.

That is insane! ALL interactions between humans and animals??? I can understand food and testing - I can't agree with it, but I can understand it. But guide animals and pets for Pete's sake? What harm can there be with keeping animals as long as you keep them well? My dogs are like members of our family.

On a side note, they are NOT taking my Coach purse, either!

I know,. I've read them all. Pretty insane stuff. We had a petition go out to the "powers that be" concerning the Humane Society of the United States stand on their ideas of reptile keeping, or non keeping I should say.
Rusty

Smynx, LOL I'll tell them you get to keep your purse. :)

Rusty, I hate how misleading that organization's name is. It's unethical, I think, and they don't even own or operate a single shelter.

Anyone else, this http://www.animalscam.com/ is a very good starting point for info, and for more, see http://www.happyvalleyasylum.com/sea...hits=10&Rank=1 which has many links to both sides of the issue (as well as 4000 unrelated links /gratuitous plug).

Smulkin, I didn't mean in reference to you :)

But a lot of newbs read her stuff and think "wow she must be an uber herp genius, wow, she even has a book"

LOL cool - I had no idea I had stumbled upon the site of such a herpetological . . . land mine hehe.

Do any of you have any idea whether the sight (rods/cones) or hearing (vestigal conductors) references were off? I'll dig around for her source material in any event . . . but I'll never be able to undo the humor inflicted by my new favorite term (sorry sphagnum) cloacal popping.

Awwww Smulkin....you recruit all us Sphagnum fans, get us all excited and frenzied...and then just leave us for whatever other idiom-floozy catches your fancy??? I'm so...crushed, like sphagnum that's been dried and ground in the mortor. :cry:

:P :P :P :P :P

LOL - Judy you're too funny.

Well then let me donate one of my favorite old-school neologisms:

DEFLICTED

Defenestration is a classic favorite of mine.

Marla, I can't believe you said that. Smulkin fell in love with the word "fenestration" after reading a short story called "Indian Uprising" by Donald Barthelme!

Another all-time favorite is "flicktarded."

Sure, flicktarded is a fun word, if not so PC. Defenestration is, for me, a lot more fun than fenestration -- I mean, really, which one makes a better threat? "I'm going to install windows!" or "I'm going to pitch you out a window!" Fenestration would probably be more fun for me if it were used to replace the non-verb "O.S." that is used around here to refer to installing an operating system, in the case of MS installations in this case.

I'm sure you've just given Smulkin a new use for the word "fenestration," and I see your point about defenestration - much more fun. As for flicktarded, well, its just nonsensical enough to escape my PC meter.

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Originally Posted by Marla

Defenestration is a classic favorite of mine.

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LOL in my band "the Daily Special" our drummer used to be in a band called "Defenestration" they were like an early nineties grunge/garage band haha. good word none the less.

Ever hear Navarro's DECONSTRUCTION project? I have a feeling you'd really dig it - really well crafted musicanship . . . not on an Opeth level of course but . . . ;)

have not heard of it but he is an insanely good guitarist I'll check it out thanks for the rec! I always love listening to new stuff - I'm trying to find a viking metal CD as well because some people on here listen to it and I've never heard it.

What was this thread about again? ;)

I can't remember..lol

"deflicted eye"
-Frank Zappa

"Scuse me while I kiss this guy" Jimi Hendrix ;)

hehe - thats what I though when I first heard it as a kid. Time to start that misinterpreted lyrics thread?

Ah, yes. I'd say it is. I have a few up my sleeve. :)