BEL Problem

Hi guys, I just got my Blue Eyed Lucy the other day from the breeder, and I'm quite worried about the conditions she's in. She's an Aug hatched, but she only weighs 79g as of today. :( I tried offering a fresh-killed small hopper overnight but she didn't seem to show any interest.

Should I start to worry and try assist-feeding now? The breeder said she ate last Thursday, but I'm quite worried when I weighed her.

Any advise? Thanks. Here are some of her photos.

http://i45.tinypic.com/1916r4.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2woyogp.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/5bvj11.jpg

I would let her settle in for at least a week. I don't think you need to worry about assist feeding yet. Once she is settled in, she will probably take a meal. Assist feeding is very stressful on them. You could wind up doing more harm than good.

Also, what was the breeder feeding her? It may take a few live feedings to get her going.

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1st - She's beautiful.
2nd - Breathe. It really hasn't been that long since she's eaten.

Questions:

1. Can you describe your setup? Maybe a picture? Temps on hot/low side?
2. Are you handling her? That could easily stress her out and cause her to go off feed - especially when they're so small.
3. Have you tried offering her live? A live hopper is sort of hatchling bp crack..

I wouldn't be too worried yet, she doesn't look too small for an August hatch so you're probably still good. Also, is that a hopper rat or mouse? You'd probably want to cross reference what she was eating before because some snakes will only take one or the other and they don't swap over easy.

What specifically was the breeder feeding her? Whatever it is, be it live p/k or f/t, do that. That will hopefully get you away from right now till she can stand to actually miss a meal cause your transitioning to what you feed the rest of your collection.

If you do have to feed live, I hear gerbils are pretty much cracked as well as hoppers.
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Originally Posted by Kodieh

If you do have to feed live, I hear gerbils are pretty much cracked as well as hoppers.

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Gerbils and ASFs will pretty much get any BP eating the only thing is they're both pricey and hard to ween off in most cases. Personally, I'd only reserve it for a seemingly desperate situation.

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Originally Posted by swansonbb

1st - She's beautiful.
2nd - Breathe. It really hasn't been that long since she's eaten.

Questions:

1. Can you describe your setup? Maybe a picture? Temps on hot/low side?
2. Are you handling her? That could easily stress her out and cause her to go off feed - especially when they're so small.
3. Have you tried offering her live? A live hopper is sort of hatchling bp crack..

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x2

We need to know you're set up. If your husbandry is fine, she probably just needs time to settle in.

Thank you very much guys for lessening my worries. :) I guess I better give her a week or two to settle in her new environment. My worry started when I weighed her because I got 3 September hatchlings which are all weighing at least 220g each, which are almost triple her size. :tears:

I tried offering her a live small hopper this morning, but then again she just doesn't showed any interest. She's just getting stressed out. So I just returned her to the enclosure.

Here's her current set-up:
http://i49.tinypic.com/263zvoh.jpg

She usually burrows like my mojave. My mojave usually prefers eating freshly-killed and in complete darkness. Other than that, she also won't eat. But she's a healthy 206g, unlike my BEL.

Temperature doesn't seem to be a problem here in the Philippines as the average temperature in my reptile room is this:
http://i45.tinypic.com/2gvu4j5.jpg

The breeder told me she ate a hopper mouse last Thursday, and just shifted from pinkies.

Did you say you returned her to her enclosure after offering her food? Does she have a heat gradient?

The only two thing I will suggest, for now (besides letting her rest for a week), is to add a hide of some kind and feed her in her enclosure (if you are not already).

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Originally Posted by jinx667

Did you say you returned her to her enclosure after offering her food? Does she have a heat gradient?

The only two thing I will suggest, for now (besides letting her rest for a week), is to add a hide of some kind and feed her in her enclosure (if you are not already).

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Oh I practice feeding all my bps in a separate smaller enclosure. I thought this practice would make them learn not to strike from their enclosure. Is this no good at all?

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Originally Posted by BIO

Oh I practice feeding all my bps in a separate smaller enclosure. I thought this practice would make them learn not to strike from their enclosure. Is this no good at all?

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I do the same thing, I think the change in scenery can help the sort out feeding time from handling time but I have been told a few times in the past that it doesn't matter.
If you can get her to eat in her tub, go for it and work on transitioning her to eating in the separate area later on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIO

Oh I practice feeding all my bps in a separate smaller enclosure. I thought this practice would make them learn not to strike from their enclosure. Is this no good at all?

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It is just not necessary, and could be a source of stress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIO

Oh I practice feeding all my bps in a separate smaller enclosure. I thought this practice would make them learn not to strike from their enclosure. Is this no good at all?

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Really unnecessary. Cage aggression in bps is a myth. You'll often see a better feeding response if you feed them in their tubs. Just make sure you wash the rodent smell off of your hands before you handle them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIO

Oh I practice feeding all my bps in a separate smaller enclosure. I thought this practice would make them learn not to strike from their enclosure. Is this no good at all?

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Moving them to feed them can stress them out enough and make them not eat. Feeding in the enclosure and making an aggressive snake is a myth. I feed all mine in their tubs and it makes feeding all that much easier on you and the snake. I can reach into any of my tubs and pick up every single one just fine. They may only strike as a conditioned response that they are being fed if that is the only time you open their enclosure (they are not trying to bite YOU they are only trying to EAT). Also, not sure what your using for substrate but you may want to switch to aspen bedding and put a hide in there. Get ahold of whoever you got her from and mimic their setup and feeding. I also would not be concerned about her wieght, she appears healthy.

Noted with thanks guys, especially on the separate feeding enclosure. Will try to feed her on her tub next week. She might not need a hide as she frequently burrows in the substrate. Like now as I type. Similar with my mojave.

My substrate is made up of wood shavings with dry sphagnum moss, which I mist with water every few days. I'll try to check for some aspen bedding when I visit the local petshop here, but I saw one before and it's quite expensive. I only get the wood shavings from the wooden door makers in my town for free.

She may need a hide, a make shift one she can fit in should work.

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I agree on the hide. Even if she burrows she may still feel insecure in the tub not having one.

I also feed all my snakes in there enclosures and have never had a problem with aggression.

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Absolutely feed her in her own enclosure. Don't move her, this causes stress. Also, she is probably burrowing because she doesn't have an adequate hide.

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For me, burrowing indicates a request for a hide, haha.

I have always fed in-tub, with no aggressive behaviors arising. I would almost worry that if I tried not too that they wouldn't eat for me lol.

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I would use paper towels for now, offer a hide, let it sit for no more than a week, and get ready to assist feed because that snake is going to need to eat soon.
Definitely do not move the snake, let it settle in and get comfortable with it's surroundings, then offer a live mouse hopper.

Gerbils are not something a ball python should be fed, especially a tiny baby ball :O
Gerbils have big gnarly teeth ...

Noted all the suggestions. I already put in a makeshift hide and placed her inside. I will let her settle-in for a week and then I'll offer her a live hopper in her tub. Will let you guys know next week.

Thanks again for all the responses. I appreciate them.

Just wanted to update everybody about my BEL. Here's what I did:

1. A few days after I received these suggestions, I decided to change her substrate into plain newspaper and add in a make-shift hide from an ice cream tub. This is so I can easily observe how she was doing. It's too difficult when she burrows in the other substrate.
2. She stayed in the hide and rarely even moved, which got me really worried.
3. Every 3 days I tried to offer live mouse, but to no avail. :(
4. I made sure that her tub is heated every morning for a couple of hours.
5. Then the other day, I suddenly found out that she shed. Then followed by poop in the afternoon.
6. Things were getting better when I observed her exploring her tub late night. I tried to offer live mouse again while she explores, but she shied away and went back to the hide.
7. I picked up the mouse and left her alone for another night.
8. Tonight I found her exploring again, and so I tried again to offer the live prey, but again she hid into the makeshift hide.
9. I pre-killed the mouse and left it outside the hide. After about an hour, I checked her out and she was out of the hide and the dead mouse is already missing! YAY!! :banana: I dropped another one, a much bigger than the last one and left her again in complete darkness. Checked her out again after an hour, and voila! She just had her 2nd head. :banana:


So happy now! Again, thank you guys for all the tips and suggestions.. I really appreciate them.

I would get her a dark hide. She will feel more secure if it is dark and secure. In fact, put two in there one on the warm side and one on the cool side.

When you say the tub is heated for a couple of hours, do you mean you check on it for a couple of hours, or it is heated for a couple of hours? There needs to be a heat gradient all the time, not just for a couple of hours. Ball Pythons need a warm spot to sit and digest their food.

Glad she ate for you. You might also want to offer smaller prey items. If you are feeding a full size mouse to a small snake, it can stress them out. Try a mouse hopper. Good luck.

Shes going to be just fine :) i have had a couple new arrivals that have not eaten for a couple weeks and once they start they normally dont stop. She does look quite under weight for her size though.

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@Don: Yes, I am feeding all my baby BPs with hopper mice. :) I live in the Philippines and the room that they're in are quite warm all day. I just expose her tub to a heating lamp for a few hours every morning to make her space warmer than the rest as she settles in, as well as for the water to evaporate faster inside. I was suspecting she's on pre-shed.

@Osk: Yup, she was underweight when I got her from the breeder. Only 79g at 3 months. :( I will try to make sure to have her feeding steady to gain her correct weight as soon as possible.

BIO, raising and lowering the temperatures could make the baby more susceptible to respiratory infections. It is really best to use an under the tank heater with a thermostat and get the temperature constant and steady, providing a heat gradient. This could be the issue with her not eating. Many non-eating snakes are that way because of improper husbandry. Good luck. I spent a lot of time in the Philippines when I was in the service and have some fond memories of the country.

Also 79 grams for a three month old ball python isn't drastic. There are allot of things that can attribute to this, mabey she was a fussy starter and had to be assist fed the first few meals. Maybe she hatched late Aug, and then took 4-6 weeks to start eating you're not talking allot of time there.. glad you got her going again.. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Also 79 grams for a three month old ball python isn't drastic. There are allot of things that can attribute to this, mabey she was a fussy starter and had to be assist fed the first few meals. Maybe she hatched late Aug, and then took 4-6 weeks to start eating you're not talking allot of time there.. glad you got her going again.. Congrats.

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Yes, you're right. The breeder was a friend of mine, before I got her, I told him to take care of her until she starts taking rat pups or hoppers, as I don't have easy access to pinkies in my area. He told me, she only started eating at 4 weeks and she was fed with pinkies. I think pinkies are not as nutritious as rat pups or small hoppers. When I got her about 2 weeks ago, she just started taking small hopper mice. Thus, maybe the weight. She hatched on Aug.8 btw.

@Don: I guess I just got paranoid, technically she just skipped for 2 weeks because of pre-shed, as well as the new environment to settle-in. I just got her from the breeder. I heated her tub because another breeder friend advised me to raise her tub's temperature a little more, especially in the morning since it's a bit cold in my place in the morning this time of the year.

Glad to hear you enjoyed your stay here in my country. :)

Some of my snakes are like yours, they only eat if you just leave a f/t or killed in the rack and leave them alone. I also have one that will only eat if she can strike while in her hide. Some have their own little quirks, you just have to figure out what works, which it sounds like you did.