Breeding loan contract

I am looking for opinions on a breeding contract I am writing up.

This is going to be a contract between me and a local breeder who is a friend of a friend. He wants to borrow my pastel yellow belly male for the season because his won't breed. He has two normals that he suspects could possibly be spectors. I am not really concerned about the outcome of the breeding, I just want to ensure I get my male back healthy.

We have agreed that I will get pick of the combined clutches, so who gets what has already been taken care of.

Do you think the following is fair? Have I missed something important? It is all still in note form, but that's easier to ready anyways:

Contract Length
- My male will be returned to me no later than December 1st 2013
- The contract is consider complete once my male is returned and the clutch has been split as detailed below

Quarantine
- No less than 30 days
- I am responsible for the cost of treating anything the pops up during this period

Care
- He agrees to provided sufficient care (housing and feeding) as required of the species

Vet Expenses
- I will be responsible for vet expense during quarantine unless the illness/injury is clearly the borrowers fault
- The borrower is responsible for expense outside of the quarantine period

Death of the animal
- I will be responsible for the cost of a necropsy to be preformed by my vet
- If the cause of death is found to be the borrowers fault, he agrees to replace the animal or provide compensation for the loss

Clutch division
- I will get first pick of the combined babies
- The borrower will keep the remaining babies

No clutches produced
- I will be responsible for compensating the borrower for feeding cost accrued during the contract length

Using different males
- The borrower agrees not to pair any other males with these females while the contract is still in effect.

What do you mean by first pick of the clutches? Like you get one snake (first pick) from each clutch and he gets the rest?

Thats the only thing that pops out at me. Otherwise i think this looks really good and seems fair!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

What do you mean by first pick of the clutches? Like you get one snake (first pick) from each clutch and he gets the rest?

Thats the only thing that pops out at me. Otherwise i think this looks really good and seems fair!

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I only want one snake total from this, so I am trying to word it as, you put all the babies from both clutches together and I get to pick one and he gets the rest. He is going to be doing all the work so that seems fair to me.

Also if his females prove out to be spectors but between the two only produce one super stripe, I have no intention of taking the super stripe. I'm not sure if I should specify that.

I've never done a breeding contract so take my opinion lightly but I don't think you should have to compensate him if there is no clutch produced. It could have been that his female/s didn't take. I may be reaading that wrong since I'm really tired tonight....

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Originally Posted by ktaylor89

I've never done a breeding contract so take my opinion lightly but I don't think you should have to compensate him if there is no clutch produced. It could have been that his female/s didn't take. I may be reaading that wrong since I'm really tired tonight....

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X2 and the clutches should be split 50/50 even if you want just 1 you could sell the rest. or however you want to work it but to me 1 snake for you and all the rest for him seems completely unfair to me.

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Originally Posted by ktaylor89

I've never done a breeding contract so take my opinion lightly but I don't think you should have to compensate him if there is no clutch produced. It could have been that his female/s didn't take. I may be reaading that wrong since I'm really tired tonight....

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No, that was what I had meant. I personally will feel bad that he has been caring for my snake with no return if neither female produces. This way at least he won't lose any money paying to feed for my snake if his females don't produce. It may make the contract skewed in his favor, but it will allow me to sleep better at night.

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Originally Posted by ktaylor89

I don't think you should have to compensate him if there is no clutch produced. It could have been that his female/s didn't take.

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I agree. Other than that everything else sounds good.

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Originally Posted by dillan2020

X2 and the clutches should be split 50/50 even if you want just 1 you could sell the rest. or however you want to work it but to me 1 snake for you and all the rest for him seems completely unfair to me.

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Honestly the only snake I would take from the clutches would be a hold back for me. I don't breed to make a profit, I breed to produce hold backs and morphs that I want. To me this is someone who is going to be assuming responsibility for a male I had no plans for this season and on top of that I will most likely get a free snake from the deal. I know from last year that breeding is a lot of work and in this case I don't have to do any of it, it's a win all around for me. The way the clutches will be split was my idea and I am happy with that part of the arrangement. :)

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Originally Posted by Kinra

I only want one snake total from this, so I am trying to word it as, you put all the babies from both clutches together and I get to pick one and he gets the rest. He is going to be doing all the work so that seems fair to me.

Also if his females prove out to be spectors but between the two only produce one super stripe, I have no intention of taking the super stripe. I'm not sure if I should specify that.

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I feel like the contract is too heavily skewed towards his favor but as long as both parties are happy i guess it doesnt matter. If i was giving one of my males out in a contract like that i would definetly want a little bit more out of the deal but thats just me.

Personally I wouldn't loan a snake to a friend of a friend for a breeding loan.
I do breeding loans but only with friends.

You need to put a dollar figure on the replacement of the male. Take cash, not him replacing the animal.

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I agree it seems in his favor, but if you feel since he will be doing all the work and you are happy with only getting one snake then it's good for both people involved. Hope it all works out.

As long as you're ok with that contract, I think it's fine. As for the Super Stripe, you don't have to mention you don't want it, just don't pick it lol.

It just looks like a setup for a hairy mess.

My snakes stay at my shop and breed only with my snakes.

I've had friends offer a 1.0 Pastel just as a "back-up" plan, but I won't even consider taking a $50 snake from them. Rat bites it.... get's an infection.... uggghhh!! Not worth the hassle.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Personally I wouldn't loan a snake to a friend of a friend for a breeding loan.
I do breeding loans but only with friends.

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I normally wouldn't and if he wasn't local to me I wouldn't consider it at all. In this case I believe I will be making a friend and he is pretty involved in the Wisconsin reptile community so I feel comfortable taking the risk.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

You need to put a dollar figure on the replacement of the male. Take cash, not him replacing the animal.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

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Should I include the dollar amount that I paid for him or his current estimated value? I bought him last year as a proven breeder for $650. I don't know what proven breeder pastel yellow bellies are currently go for.

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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

I agree it seems in his favor, but if you feel since he will be doing all the work and you are happy with only getting one snake then it's good for both people involved. Hope it all works out.

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Thank you. :)

I'm not to worried about what I will be getting from this so much as making sure it's clear who is responsible for what when it comes to his care.

I am going to be taking out the part about the females not producing though.

Instead of compensating him if there are no clutches, since he is local, could you maybe drop off food once a week or whatever for the snake? That way he can't inflate the price that he paid and you wont owe him anything in the end? That way you could also check on him each week to make sure he is being properly cared for and fed??

Once you figure out a good contract, or a template, perhaps you could post it and get it stickied :D.

I'm sure I'll do some for-fun breeding loans with some folks in the future, and I'd sure like to see a nice contract for the future!

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Personally I wouldn't loan a snake to a friend of a friend for a breeding loan.
I do breeding loans but only with friends.

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I am with Jerry I would not do it. But if you do I agree that he should not be compensated if the females do not take. He should compensate you for taking your male out of your rotation and you not getting a hold back out of the deal. Even if you had no plans for him, things may change and you need him.

I'm about the only one playing the Devil's Advocate, but I don't mind. I'm just laying this out here for you to consider.

I know these loans happen, but I just can't see any of my collection getting loaned out to anyone. I've invested a lot of time and money in each bp I own- from the 0.1, 150g Mojave to the 1.0, 2000g Pied.

I cannot put a dollar value on a male that has locked with multiple females already this year- multiple times each.

Here is the most important point of the situation IMHO..... Your male is a proven breeder. Will the replacement be if something goes wrong? A good male is potentially worth as much or more than any female, because without the male you have no clutches ;) What if you end up with a male like his that won't breed? How much has it cost you to feed and maintain your initial $650 investment? It's about $100/yr, per snake for me just to feed a snake that size.

My $750 1.0 Pied is worth far more than my females he has locked with, because without him my plans would have gone south and I'd have 3 females sitting here looking for a mate of another morph than I planned. This boy takes a lot of rack space, but he's not going anywhere till I breed a proven replacement for him myself.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I'm about the only one playing the Devil's Advocate, but I don't mind. I'm just laying this out here for you to consider.

I know these loans happen, but I just can't see any of my collection getting loaned out to anyone. I've invested a lot of time and money in each bp I own- from the 0.1, 150g Mojave to the 1.0, 2000g Pied.

I cannot put a dollar value on a male that has locked with multiple females already this year- multiple times each.

Here is the most important point of the situation IMHO..... Your male is a proven breeder. Will the replacement be if something goes wrong? A good male is potentially worth as much or more than any female, because without the male you have no clutches ;) What if you end up with a male like his that won't breed? How much has it cost you to feed and maintain your initial $650 investment? It's about $100/yr, per snake for me just to feed a snake that size.

My $750 1.0 Pied is worth far more than my females he has locked with, because without him my plans would have gone south and I'd have 3 females sitting here looking for a mate of another morph than I planned. This boy takes a lot of rack space, but he's not going anywhere till I breed a proven replacement for him myself.

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Corey,
While we are on this subject let me borrow your Black Pastel Het Pied for a week or two I have a couple of girls waiting for him tails wagging and all. LMAO :D;);)

I may have missed it but you should also have a qt period for when you get him back and make him responsible le for vet bills for a certain period of time after you vet him back. That way if shows signs of illness 2 weeks after gettin him back you are covered.

Sorry if I missed that part if you included it... been a long couple of days and I'm mentaly exhausted...

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Originally Posted by joebad976

Corey,
While we are on this subject let me borrow your Black Pastel Het Pied for a week or two I have a couple of girls waiting for him tails wagging and all. LMAO :D;);)

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They're both virgins, so they're trying to figure out what should be going on in there. She's not a tail wagger that I've seen, but Holmes stole her virginity anyways.

If the BP Het Pied wakes up in time and I get a decent clutch, I'll give you a deal on one ;)

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Here is what I came up with as a draft for the contract agreement. What do you think?

This contract is between _______________ (hereinafter referred to as the "Owner") and ______________ (hereinafter referred to as the "Borrower"), enter into on _______________. The owner agrees to loan the borrower _______________ (hereinafter referred to as the "Breeder") which has an estimated value of _______________ which the borrower will breed with ___________________. Both the owner and the borrower agree to the following terms of the loan.
I. Contract Length
1.) The borrower agrees to return the breeder to the owner no later than ________________ at which point the contract will be fulfilled.
2.) Should eggs be produced before the date agreed upon above the borrower will return the breeder to the owner and the contract will be fulfilled once the clutch is divided as detailed in section VI.
II. Quarantine
1.) The borrower agrees to quarantine the breeder for no less than 30 days and no more than 90 days.
2.) The owner agrees to be responsible for any vet expense to treat illness that presents itself during the quarantine period, unless it is immediately clear that the illness was caused by the borrower (such as illnesses resulting from poor care and neglect).
3.) Upon return of the breeder the owner agrees to quarantine the breeder for no less than 30 days and no more than 90 days.
4.) The borrower agrees to be responsible for any vet expense to treat illness that presents itself during the quarantine period, unless it is immediately clear that the illness was caused by the owner (such as illnesses resulting from poor care and neglect).
III. Care
1.) The borrower agrees to meet the care requirements of the breeder's species.
2.) The borrower agrees to cover care expense accrued during the loan period.
I.) Care expense include housing and feeding costs.
IV. Vet Expenses
1.) The borrower agrees to cover any needed vet expenses outside of the required quarantine period.
V. Death
1.) In the event of the death of the breeder, the owner agrees to cover the cost of a necropsy done by a vet of their choosing.
2.) Should the necropsy reveal that the death of the breeder was the result of the borrower's care, the borrower agrees to compensate the owner for the value of the breeder as detailed above.
VI. Division of clutch
1.) The borrower and owner agree that the clutch (or clutches) will be divided as follows:
I.) The owner will receive first pick out of all the babies produced.
II.) The borrower will keep all of the remaining babies produced.
VII. Failure to produce clutch
1.) If the female(s) fails to produce a clutch before the end date specified in section I. the contract will be considered fulfilled and the breeder will be returned to the owner.
2.) The contract can be consider for renewal or extension at the agreement of both parties.
VIII. Multiple Breeders
1.) The borrower agrees not to pair any male not specified in the contract to the female(s) specified until the contract has been fulfilled.
2.) The borrower agrees not to pair the breeder with any female not specified in the contract.

Owner: _____________________________________ Date:_____________________
Borrower: ______________________________________ Date:_____________________

Looking it over once more the only thing I think someone who is looking to get something out of the breeding loan would really want to add is some method of updates, such as pictures documenting the process.

Looks good but i think that if the male dies and the necropsy shows the borrowers fault, he should also compensate you for the vet bill from the necropsy.

Here is some suggested reading that is relevant to the subject: Breeding loans and other terrible partnering ideas