Will I lose money breeding ball pythons?

Hi friends,
I had a question for you guys and gals who have taken this leap before me. Will I lose money breeding ball pythons? I'm not planning on it being a main business, just a hobby to break even and maybe a little extra. Right now I have a male pastel, albino and piebald ready to breed. My het pied female may be ready next year and my pewter the year after that. I'm planning on adding a female ivory and maybe some hypo stuff. My concern is, in 15-20 yrs will people even be buying the morphs I have? Even pieds are getting cheaper already. Will I be able to make money selling babies from a few clutches a year? After putting food into the parents and babies? I'm not worried about my cost for the initial snakes because they are my pets as well. Just thinking, any thoughts welcome. I don't plan on getting rich. I just want to break even and enjoy the ride. Watch them develop and grow. And I won't sell a snake if I am not certain as much as I can be that they will have a proper home. I hope I don't keep them all...lol.

chances are it will take you a few years before you will break even or go positive. I have not produced eggs yet, but i do plan on it taking 3+ years before i can say i broke even, but either way i dont care since it is my hobby. to answer your question, about if people will be buying the morphs years from now, look at how long albinos have been around and they still sell:gj:, as for some other morphs it depends on the quality on how quickly it could sell. Don't get ugly pastels and expect to be selling ugly babies quickly, this is a hobby where quality means a lot:gj:

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Originally Posted by 1nstinct

chances are it will take you a few years before you will break even or go positive. I have not produced eggs yet, but i do plan on it taking 3+ years before i can say i broke even, but either way i dont care since it is my hobby. to answer your question, about if people will be buying the morphs years from now, look at how long albinos have been around and they still sell:gj:, as for some other morphs it depends on the quality on how quickly it could sell. Don't get ugly pastels and expect to be selling ugly babies quickly, this is a hobby where quality means a lot:gj:

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Take this and make your decision.

took about 4 years to get ahead but i do it for a hobby and i really enjoy keeping my snakes:banana:

Oh I'm going to do it cause I will love it. Just curious about opinions.

lol it takes more than a couple clutches to break even. if making money is your goal don't quit your job to breed bp's ;).

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lol it takes more than a couple clutches to break even. if making money is your goal don't quit your job to breed bp's ;).

If you buy into quality, you can produce quality and get a faster ROI, but if you buy into "pet" quality, you will get a lot slower ROI. The Market is good in some areas, but harsh in others. If you want to break even, you're not asking too much and should be able to break even each year with your clutches from 3-5 females, after considering the amount of food it takes to get them to size, heating them, and providing caging / substrate, etc.

Don't breed into the market though, always breed into your passion. Get animals you're excited about, and then use that passion to create amazing morph mixes that you enjoy. It's MUCH easier to sell a snake you think is the most amazing thing in the world, than trying to offer a "low quality pastel" for a bargin of a price . . .

But yes, the first 1-3 years is all about investing, after the 3rd year, you should be able to start breaking even and if you're lucky with the odds of genetics, start seeing a positive return on investment.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

If you buy into quality, you can produce quality and get a faster ROI, but if you buy into "pet" quality, you will get a lot slower ROI. The Market is good in some areas, but harsh in others. If you want to break even, you're not asking too much and should be able to break even each year with your clutches from 3-5 females, after considering the amount of food it takes to get them to size, heating them, and providing caging / substrate, etc.

Don't breed into the market though, always breed into your passion. Get animals you're excited about, and then use that passion to create amazing morph mixes that you enjoy. It's MUCH easier to sell a snake you think is the most amazing thing in the world, than trying to offer a "low quality pastel" for a bargin of a price . . .

But yes, the first 1-3 years is all about investing, after the 3rd year, you should be able to start breaking even and if you're lucky with the odds of genetics, start seeing a positive return on investment.

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Also this. There is good insight here, buying quality to start will really decrease the time it takes to make your money back. An extreme example to illustrate this would be if you bought a male banana and 2 female normals breeding size. 26k intitial investment. 25k 1.0 banana, 0.2 $300 normals, 700 on husbandry(not a a bad allowance for a 3 snake setup especially if you're a DIYer). Let's say you do a little worse than average and hit 2 banana's per clutch, you have come up roughly 60-80k in snake value depending on market and snake value.

Of course this is just off the top of my head, my number may not be spot on but you should get the picture.

The other extreme would be buying normals or low end morphs such as pastels, yellowbellies, etc. and producing those as a 1.2 trio to start with. or even morphs that may be worth a bit more lets say <500. Realistically by the time you've produced babies that you can sell and not hold back for future projects all of these morphs have depreciated to at least the 300 dollar mark or lower.

That was my mentality going into it and I started with lower end morphs because it was what I could realistically afford being in college and living on my own. I bought the ones I liked the most AND that would also be project worthy and I have no regrets.

There are new morphs coming up all the time like most people said invest in quality and get what you like.
To me the love of the snake and seeing what I can come up with is a good start but I also make sure I know what to do with the snakes I am breeding.
Having a good plan is a must to me anyway I enjoy the hobby and the challenge.
And I do breed my own rats still cheaper than bying them at least for me.:)

I figure about $1500 per year just to feed 10 adult snakes. Assuming they all eat a medium rat per week, 50 weeks out of the year. This is averaging rat size of course. Then water conditioner, packing paper for substrate, heat... Really I just need to justify the feeding bill per year.

$1500 for 10? That seems a little bit steep unless you are paying a solid 3 bucks a head for rats. In which case, buy in bulk frozen and save yourself a lot of money. I'd say you're closer to the mark of 900 a year just in feeding cost IF you have to order multiple shipments through out the year instead of ordering the bulk of your food. $1500 with say 7 females should not be hard to recoup IMO. Heck drop 1k on a male Champagne and you'll be recovering cost in a lot less time since they are new enough that they will probably stay above $500 per ball for the next 2-3 years. Again, IF you are into those morphs :-) If you plan to only do live, invest a little more upfront and get a breeding colony together, and you should be able to keep your cost a lot lower in the end, but it will lengthen the initial time for a ROI.

Well I estimated high, and the place I get f/t right now is $28.50 for 10 med rats. No shipping though. These are top numbers to tell the husband :) Then when I do it cheaper he will think I'm awesome. Lol.

I started breeding my own rats when I hit a $50 a week feed bill. Now, it costs me less than $50 a month.

I expect to profit in about 3 years. I'm going straight for a high dollar morph. The Mystic Potion! This Christmas I'm getting my Mojave from BHB and hopefully around tax return time I'll pick up a nice Mystic from someone here or more likely from kingsnake.com/classifieds. Ideally I want a breeding pair of Super Mojave and Super Mystic, that'll get me 100% Mystic Potion babies. If the price of them cuts in half in 5 years I'll still be doing pretty damn good I think. Especially when I have several females to throw other morphs into. Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGuy

I expect to profit in about 3 years. I'm going straight for a high dollar morph. The Mystic Potion! This Christmas I'm getting my Mojave from BHB and hopefully around tax return time I'll pick up a nice Mystic from someone here or more likely from kingsnake.com/classifieds. Ideally I want a breeding pair of Super Mojave and Super Mystic, that'll get me 100% Mystic Potion babies. If the price of them cuts in half in 5 years I'll still be doing pretty damn good I think. Especially when I have several females to throw other morphs into. Any ideas?

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Sorry to tell you but mystic potions are not high dollar combo. I have seen them sell for less than 1400 bucks and if you are starting with the base combos by the time they get up to size and you actually hit on the potion they will probably be a low end combo. In a year they went from $3K to $1500. The ball python market is not that great right now and I hope it turns around. My buddy was offered a male banana for 6k in Daytona this year. I have been breeding for a few years now and I am still in the negative but I enjoy this hobby so I am ok with it.

I've got some good reading material for you if you are interesting in the economics of Ball Pythons breeding:

On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

A Continued Analysis of Ball Python Investment

Poop on the Shelves

Imagination, Luck and Opportunity

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Originally Posted by elbee

Hi friends,
I had a question for you guys and gals who have taken this leap before me. Will I lose money breeding ball pythons? I'm not planning on it being a main business, just a hobby to break even and maybe a little extra. Right now I have a male pastel, albino and piebald ready to breed. My het pied female may be ready next year and my pewter the year after that. I'm planning on adding a female ivory and maybe some hypo stuff. My concern is, in 15-20 yrs will people even be buying the morphs I have? Even pieds are getting cheaper already. Will I be able to make money selling babies from a few clutches a year? After putting food into the parents and babies? I'm not worried about my cost for the initial snakes because they are my pets as well. Just thinking, any thoughts welcome. I don't plan on getting rich. I just want to break even and enjoy the ride. Watch them develop and grow. And I won't sell a snake if I am not certain as much as I can be that they will have a proper home. I hope I don't keep them all...lol.

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I know how to make a small fortune in ball python breeding...










...start of with a large fortune:D. Sorry, I couldn't help it.

You can absolutely make money breeding ball pythons. I've done it and November 30th will be five years since I received a paycheck from someone else. I think some people have false expectations and add up what they expect to make. Just know that not every female will produce, you may get slugs, you can't deposit your babies at Chase bank, etc. Be realistic.

I would suggest you keep working, invest in morphs you like, don't go into debt, and enjoy. Slow and steady wins the race. Hold back animals your produce, invest in new morphs, and grow your collection. Over time with good decisions and some luck you can be successful. How many people in this economy would benefit from a part time income on top of their regular job?

Thank you everyone for the replies! I'm excited to get started.

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Originally Posted by elbee

I figure about $1500 per year just to feed 10 adult snakes. Assuming they all eat a medium rat per week, 50 weeks out of the year. This is averaging rat size of course. Then water conditioner, packing paper for substrate, heat... Really I just need to justify the feeding bill per year.

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That projection is a bit much IMO for feeding ten snakes. Here is my rough yearly upkeep(I buy live rats weekly for 8 snakes.)

$1-$2 avg price for rats - Mine personally range from feeding pups through mediums. My rat breeder charges me $1 per rat on average so $8 week. 52weeks x $8 = $416/year for rats. If you are not buying from a supplier other than chain stores or local reptile shops I recommend finding one in your area or looking into breeding your own, you will cut costs immensely here. I realized i would be paying >$800 a year for my 8 snakes if I bought from the local herp shop, now I'm closer to $400 a year.

Substrate - unprinted newpaper. I have personally seen the prices on this range from free to $2. In my experience I use roughly 1 roll per 3 months for my collection. 4 rolls/yr = $5-$8 substrate/yr

water dishes - I use plastic deli cups from fabrikal, I believe i paid ~$17 for 100 cups. you'll have to get creative to keep them from spilling. These are easily cleaned as well as replaceable and should last you a while.

I personally do not use any type of water conditioner for my snakes. I do let the water sit out for at least a day to let the chlorine evaporate off but I do that due to my avid indoor gardening.

I believe that puts my yearly upkeep - electricity at <$500/yr. These snakes can be kept economically, just gotta be creative and use your brain a bit.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

You can absolutely make money breeding ball pythons. I've done it and November 30th will be five years since I received a paycheck from someone else. I think some people have false expectations and add up what they expect to make. Just know that not every female will produce, you may get slugs, you can't deposit your babies at Chase bank, etc. Be realistic.

I would suggest you keep working, invest in morphs you like, don't go into debt, and enjoy. Slow and steady wins the race. Hold back animals your produce, invest in new morphs, and grow your collection. Over time with good decisions and some luck you can be successful. How many people in this economy would benefit from a part time income on top of their regular job?

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How long did it take to get to where you didn't need another job?

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

How long did it take to get to where you didn't need another job?

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It took three years but I invested pretty heavy early on so I had a good start.

Breeding your own rats is definately the best way to save money. where i'm at small rats are $4 and mediums are $5 and thats at the cheapest local spot i know of. so i breed my own and feed 24 snakes a week and it costs less then $10 to keep them fed and in fresh bedding. so i would say for 10 snakes you could most likely breed your own for $300 or so per year. more the first year of course because of building rat racks and such but still way cheaper.

That's awesome. Congrats.
If I may ask, where do most of your sales come from?

You will lose quite a lot of money breeding ball pythons. My parents are blown away when I tell them I sold a pied for $550. But they don't know how much that pieds' parents cost. Or how much I spend on rodents every year.

I started working with ball pythons in 2008. I started going crazy with long-term breeding projects in 2009. This was supposed to be my break-even year. But my het lavender couple didn't hatch any visuals this year, and BOTH of my black pastel x pied pairings failed to ovulate. Right now I've got a lot of hets and possible hets for pied and lavender albino, and they're all vacuuming down mice. Getting 20 hatchlings started? Surprisingly expensive!

So don't do it unless you can afford not to break even for a while.


EDIT: It might be that I'm working with pieds and lavender albinos here, which are recessive. It might be easier to break even sooner with dominant traits that produce either visuals or plain old normals. Dunno.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

It took three years but I invested pretty heavy early on so I had a good start.

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Did you purchase a lot of breeding-size females up front, or did you grow them all up?

It should be noted that "high quality" does not necessarily mean high end morphs. It can mean a beautiful reduced spider ball, or a pastel that doesn't brown out, or a pinstripe with a solid stripe down its back.

You don't have to invest in something like a banana ball to have a high quality animal. People still buy the "low end" morphs, and they will pay more for an animal that is beautiful, regardless of the morph.

I paid $800 for my pastel butter male, while others will selling for as low as $500. But he is an exceptional example of the morph with high blushing and bright yellows. He will make beautiful offspring that will more than make up for the high price I paid early on. :)

The Mojave I plan on buying is very pretty with bright yellow and very dark(almost black) brown. The mystic I'll be getting next year will be the prettiest I can find. I want high quality mystic potions some day. Maybe I'll get lucky and hatch 2 from the first good clutch. Hopefully I can make a profit by year 3 or 4, but probably not until 5 or 6.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

That's awesome. Congrats.
If I may ask, where do most of your sales come from?

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95% internet sales as I only did one show this year. It may be 100% internet next year.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Did you purchase a lot of breeding-size females up front, or did you grow them all up?

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I purchased some yearlings females but most were babies that I raised.

you should check out worldofballpythons.com to find out what genetics you can breed.