Assist Feeding Hatchlings - When will they ever eat?

Hello,

I've got a multitude of snakes of my own, but have never bred or dealt with non-eating hatchlings before. I've converted multiple 1-2 year old BPs from live to frozen thawed without too much trouble, at most a few weeks off before they would switch over. I've also bought a few hatchlings and was able to convert them to f/t no problem at all! I've got something around 30 snakes, of multiple species.

Anyway, I'm being paid to snake-sit for a breeder. In exchange she's given me a few snakes, two of which are a female normal and male yellow belly hatchlings, hatched in the first week of September. They were problem eaters and did not eat before I received them, as the breeder was leaving on the 10th of October. They were icing on the cake for my payment, since I had received cash and two other snakes, so I wasn't worried about getting them to eat. When I received them they still had not eaten (10th). I waited a week and got live hopper mice. I stunned them a bit and put them in large separate containers with the hatchlings. The female ate, and it was my first time feeding live. The male did not.

After reading the assist feeding thread and speaking to some friends who also breed, I assist fed the male a defrosted large mouse pinkie. I got the head in and he did the rest. The next week I tried live hoppers again for the both. The female ate once more, and the male did not. I tried to assist feed him a f/t hopper, then f/t fuzzy, but he kept spitting them out. A pinkie worked once more. The next week his sister took f/t for the first time, and he didn't eat at all. A few days ago the female took another f/t and is doing quite well and has already grown. The male would again only take a f/t pinkie.

At this point, I'm very worried about him getting enough food for one, since he wont eat anything larger than mouse pinkies. He's smaller than the female already. He won't take more than one pinkie in a feeding as well. Would trying anoles or house geckos work as well as with cornsnakes? And then there's the possibility that, as with some corns, they'd only ever eat with lizard scenting first. I've tried scenting live and f/t mice with their poop, I've tried no water and dipping them in water, etc. All the methods I've used have worked, and I've had corns and a bp that have gone months without feeding before and those methods worked. The issue is that he's a hatchling, and I am worried that he's just not going to make it.

What course of action would you all try? I'd rather not get into force feeding because I do want him to be able to take food on his own, but if that's a must... I'm a bit scared that continuous assist feeding will mean he'll never take food on his own. At least f/t are pretty easy to assist feed, but he still won't take anything large enough. He can't possibly survive on a single mouse pinkie a week his whole life.

Any help would be great, thanks! I've reached the point where I'm at a complete loss, and I think I need some bp expert specific help for the situation, not just researching the threads on here and consulting friends who haven't dealt with a problem like this to this extent.

I can't give you too much advice from an experience point of view. We had to assist feed my enchi lesser two or three times before she would take live. I'm not sure if it helped or not but the last time I assist fed a F/T mouse pinkie I cut the skin on the head to get it bleeding a bit before we assist feeded. This may have given her a better taste for the mouse I really do not know. I have heard that switching to rats or ASFs can help occassionally. You can also try leaving the F/T in the cage with them but be sure to not leave it in all night, we did once and will never do it again, stunk really bad.

Assisting doesn't mean they won't start on their own, most all I've ever heard of that were assisted, including ones we've assisted eventually eat on their own.
We assist fed a BEL female 8 times 2 seasons ago before she took off on her own and she's doing fine now.

I've got a bumblebee het Axanthic that I had to assist feed a dozen times before he ate on his own. He is now one of the best feeders in my collection. Continue to assist if he doesn't eat on his own, sooner or later, he will get the idea.

I forgot to mention to breeder had been trying only on rats, since she bred them. That's why I decided to try mice.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep assisting for now. Is anybody concerned on size of prey and nutrition though? I think that's my biggest problem. Continuing to assist is fine, but I can't see mice pinkies as being enough for long.

I had to assist feed two males this year, a het pied and a pied. The het pied was from an older clutch and worried me more. But he took the first hopper I tried to assist feed. The following week he continued to refuse live, but took two (!) f/t hoppers on his own. Since some buyers do prefer to feed live, and the het is for sale, I'm now in the unusual position of having to convince a snake that eats f/t to also accept live.

The pied is a little prima donna. He spat out the first two things I tried to assist him in October. He finally swallowed an f/t hopper this last week. It was overheated a little exploded, and I wonder if the extra nastiness might have helped convince him to finally swallow it?

I plan to keep offering f/t and live to both of them every week. I'm only assisting every 2nd or 3rd week---I figure they're not starving or in danger anymore, and maybe a little hunger will help me out.

I'll keep going with it, I hope he'll take by himself soon. I'll try to get in rat pinkies maybe. I am really hoping he makes it through... I have a year old female yellow belly that I'd love to breed him to. Not that my only interest is in breeding, I keep snakes for pets, though that may be hard to believe since I have something around 80 reptiles, haha.

Best of luck to you man, you may want to attempt the ASFs if you can find them, I think BPs have a sweet tooth for them.

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Originally Posted by eskye

I forgot to mention to breeder had been trying only on rats, since she bred them. That's why I decided to try mice.

Thanks for the info, I'll keep assisting for now. Is anybody concerned on size of prey and nutrition though? I think that's my biggest problem. Continuing to assist is fine, but I can't see mice pinkies as being enough for long.

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Whenever I assist feed, it is with a rat pinky. Mouse pinkies are too small, IMHO.

Thanks, but the size was a problem! Did you read where I mentioned that he only spits out larger offerings? (mouse hoppers, fuzzies, and rats!) If he would take later that's what he would be eating!

As in, even if I can get the head partially into or down his throat he'll spit it out. He just won't take larger items, and I keep trying.

You haven't got anything to worry about if he's taking pinkies every week. Snakes can go a lot longer without food than you think.

I'm currently assist feeding one of my gaboon vipers. He is only being fed one pinkie every 3-4 weeks.

You should be able to push a bigger food item all the way down, so he cannot spit it back out.

I would try a nice fat live fuzzy mouse left in his cage overnight.

what size enclosure is he in? how much does he weighs?

I tried another hopper, then I put a rat pinkie in. I'm going to wait and see if he eats the rat. Anyone know how to raise a live rat pinkie if he doesn't eat it, haha? It's a bit too cute to kill. Twenty eight quarts like all the tubs on my small rack, and he's 35 grams. Here is a size comparison to my albino male that was hatched a week later than this yellow belly.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/09/yjy9edam.jpg

28 quart tub is way too big for hatchlings. even the ones that will eat for you in a 28 qt tub will most likely do better in some thing a lot smaller. if you can, you need to get him in a 6 qt tub. they sell them at walmart for around a dollar. sterilite. I don't know if you can remove his 28 qt tub and put the 6 qt in the rack with just part of the tub over the heat. you might have to keep the lid on, so don't forget air holes. keep a close eye on the temps, being your rack isn't made for the 6 qt tub. 35 grams is small, and assist feed him a desent size pinky mouse like you been doing. but he needs to be feed at least twice a week. watch his weight. once it goes up a little more and he still won't eat by himself. feed him 6 times every other day. wait 10 to 14 days and try feeding him a live fuzzy mouse, sneaking it into his tub and letting him be. he also needs to be left alone all the time you are doing all of this. feeding him like this will put some food into him, stressing him yes. the 10 to 14 day wait will help him calm back down and give him a chance to feel the need to eat again.
I had twins this year and the one was only 23 grams. he needed assist feeding and he's doing great now and never misses a meal. good luck, if you have any questions for me, you can pm me and I'll answer as quickly as possible. don

Thanks, but he's been in a 6 qt since I've been having issues after the first assist feed. I made a mistake in saying he was in a 28 like most of my corns. I have packs of the 6qts from the local store since they're 5 for 5. I use them for quarantine for all my herps. I'm not worried about temps, I don't have custom snake rack. I use temp probes for individual tubs.

Update. After speaking to my mentor I was able to get a pinkie rat sticky enough after a couple tries to get it in. He downed it, and it is his second feeding in the week. I think I've got it settled now that he's taking larger f/t or p/k items. I'll just keep assisting until he takes on his own. He wouldn't take a live pinkie rat overnight so I killed it and assisted him.

I think he'll be fine now.

He had multiple pinkie meals, then a rat pinkie, and finally this week I was able to assist him in eating a mouse hopper. However, it has been a week since I fed him that last meal and he has died.

I'm not sure if I was too late, or something was just never right with him. He was always missing teeth on the left side of his jaw. Either way, I found him dead this morning and it was an unpleasant surprise. I thought that he was finally making it. Very disappointing. His sibling, a female normal hatchling that was having feeding issues as well, is doing just fine and taking food on her own now. At least there was one success.

Sorry for your loss!

Sometimes even with our best intentions and help pets don't make it. Out of curiosity was he the runt of his fellow clutch mates?

Oh yes. He was smaller even than his female clutch-mate female. At a few months old and with a few pinkies in him, he was at 35 grams while the female was at 40. The other clutch-mates I saw were larger. These two were the runts I would expect to die in the wild. He probably just wasn't meant to make it, genetically speaking. I know the feeling well from breeding other animals - some just don't make it, no matter how hard we try. A sad loss, but I'm not going to beat myself up for it!