Two questions, Sugar and Enchi related.

Though not exactly directly related, I figured this was better than writing up two posts.

Sugar Question:

I believe I've read on multiple occasions that Sugar's are basically high white calico's, or are the same morph but from a different breeder / line. Is that correct? If so, will a high white sugar produce high white sugars? Or is it similar to pieds / calico's (I believe) where high whites can produce low whites etc? If that is the case, is there any difference between a high white calico and a sugar?

Enchi Question:

What is your favorite two gene Enchi combo? Pics? :D
What is your least favorite two gene Enchi combo?

Thanks guys and gals :)

i think the sugars and calicos are allelic, just different lines. although sugars tend to appeal to me a little more because of the high white, i've also read somewhere that the amount of white on them varies like with the pieds... so i don't know how the sugars always seem to be higher white. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

as far as the 2 gene enchis, i'm really diggin the lesser/butter enchis. lol

I think sugars and calico's are of the same gene just different lines.

My favorite morph is champagne enchis :)


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I talked with a breeder at the Daytona Expo this year and he had a bunch of sugars. I asked why he preferred them over calicos and he said because they tend to throw higher white animals. I forgot who the breeder was but he definitely had some sweet animals. I am not sure if this is true or not but I thought it was interesting.

As far as enchis go I am not sure I have a favorite but I did hold back all 4 females I produced this year. ;)

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Originally Posted by joebad976

I talked with a breeder at the Daytona Expo this year and he had a bunch of sugars. I asked why he preferred them over calicos and he said because they tend to throw higher white animals. I forgot who the breeder was but he definitely had some sweet animals. I am not sure if this is true or not but I thought it was interesting.

As far as enchis go I am not sure I have a favorite but I did hold back all 4 females I produced this year. ;)

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My husband and I both noted how it seemed like an inordinately large amount of Sugar's at Daytona this year. I got really excited about buying my lesser pastel and pretty much put blinders on and headed home. :(

I'm hoping that the sugar's hold true to that, as that is what interests me about them. I don't care much for the low white calico's personally.

Sugars and calicos are very similar, but there are a few traits that are different, consistently. Remember, they won't all look exactly the same. Consistency is what separates them.

Sugars tend to have black backs and wide alien heads with no dots. This is a typical high quality sugar IMO. Obviously the highest white would be best.

Calicos tend to have thin alien heads with many dots and a banded pattern. The calicos seem to have a lot more highlighty orange along the pattern, typically near the tail. Again, not ALL calicos will look like this, but I've consistently seen calicos have these traits.

From what I've seen, calicos and sugars both throw random amounts of white, just like the pieds. If I find the thread that had some good pictures and info on them, I'll link you :gj:!

As far as enchi combos go, enchi spider, enchi champagne, enchi lesser/butter, super enchi, and enchi sugar/calico are my favorites. Enchi pin and enchi pastel aren't very impressive to me :gj:. Enchi pastel is a powerful combo though as both morphs have a clearly visible super form that both change color and pattern completely :gj:!

Here's my calico (low/medium white):
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...96306dcbbc.jpg

Notice the thin bands and lots of dots. Also notice that she is definitely not a black back lol.

Here's a clutchmate that sold too quickly :P..
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/...011551533a.jpg

Bright orange trim, lots of dots, however, he expresses the blackback trait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

I'm hoping that the sugar's hold true to that, as that is what interests me about them. I don't care much for the low white calico's personally.

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I agree with you 100% on the low white calico's.

I leaning towards purchasing a sugar as well. Still need to research the high white info a bit more though before I make a purchase.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joebad976

I agree with you 100% on the low white calico's.

I leaning towards purchasing a sugar as well. Still need to research the high white info a bit more though before I make a purchase.

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If you were debating between getting a sugar and a calico, I'd vote sugar, even though I have calico. Pastel sugars are hotter than calico sugars IMO. I really like the reduced pattern look and black backs. Check out post #6:
http://www.captivebredreptileforums....vs-calico.html

Thanks for the link hooblah that is a hot sugar. I think I like them more becasue of the characteristics you mentioned in your earlier post. Thanks for the info.

I also tend to agree that Sugars are different than calicos.

Sugar Pastels look very different than calicos. Typically the blacks on the sugar pastel looks much deeper and the yellowing trim around it is definitely nicer.

Take a look at some of these pastel sugars and you can definitely see the difference.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...2/P1050500.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...2/P1050501.jpg

I don't think i've seen any calico-pastels that look as nice. I have a calico pastel, and its a nice animal, but the vibrancy and contrast of the blacks, yellows, and whites come no where near the color of the sugar-pastels. Also calicos tend to throw more ringers.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...2/P1030644.jpg

Very interesting! I think I'm leaning towards sugar aswell. I tend to prefer reduced patterns with less dots in most morphs, so I think sugars will fit my likes better. Plus, blackbacks are just hot! Thanks h00blah!

Also...*if* my boy turns out to be pastel enchi, I'll have to beat you up for that comment. I still believe he is Enchi, so you're safe...for now... :P hehehe

Enchi, I would put to bee/spider and butter/lesser would be yummy....

h00blah, why didn't you post your smokin hot little enchi combo for her to see???? Hmmm??????

And I'm seriously casting a vote that your enchi is pastel enchi.... Where did that yellow come from if not? ;)

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http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...924_214759.jpg

Here is my pastel calico. I think she is hot!!! I like ringers and orange! My calico sire is a black back low white.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Enchi, I would put to bee/spider and butter/lesser would be yummy....

h00blah, why didn't you post your smokin hot little enchi combo for her to see???? Hmmm??????

And I'm seriously casting a vote that your enchi is pastel enchi.... Where did that yellow come from if not? ;)

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I've seen his gawjus enchi fire if that's what you're talking about. Not that I will EVER complain about more pics ;)

A lot of people think he's pastel enchi, but I am going to stick with Matt's opinion on him until he proves differently. Call me stubborn *shrug*. His head is regular Enchi stamped, not blushed at all, but we shall see! (in a year or so :please:) Not like I'm going to complain if he throws pastels :D But...I would kind of enjoy him throwing enchis only...just because :P

Back to sugars vs calico's, I've seen some calico's I like, but I think I'd rather go with sugars because I've only seen a few that I didn't like. Better odds for me! :D

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1896206

See page 2, his enchi lesser...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Very interesting! I think I'm leaning towards sugar aswell. I tend to prefer reduced patterns with less dots in most morphs, so I think sugars will fit my likes better. Plus, blackbacks are just hot! Thanks h00blah!

Also...*if* my boy turns out to be pastel enchi, I'll have to beat you up for that comment. I still believe he is Enchi, so you're safe...for now... :P hehehe

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Sugar is such a cooler name too :D! There will probably be some cool sugar combos with cool names :D!!

Haha most pastel enchis are boring :P! Yours is definitely an exception! If only they all looked like that, I'd vote pastel enchi as a favorite :gj:.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1896206

See page 2, his enchi lesser...

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Thanks :bow::D!! I don't really like re-posting the same pictures of my snakes, but I'll do it once in a while :D! I haven't taken new pictures for several reasons. I've been on vacation, I'm currently sick with a fever, and the lighting in my room is horrible, so I can't just snap quick pics :(.. I take them outside for the natural light. I'll do another one soon. Maybe today if my head stops hurting every time I stand up :mad:.. Thanks for linking the thread though :D!

I like sugars and sugar combos better personally. Orenshi just got a nice sugar recently.

I like enchi mixed with lesser/butter, mojave, champ, fire, and yb. Maybe a few others i cant think of atm too lol.

EDIT: i dont think ive seen one but im sure an enchi vanilla would be hot too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1896206

See page 2, his enchi lesser...

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I love that thread :D Travis, your enchi lesser is sexy as hell!

Thanks all! :D