Het Percentages

Hi. I am wondering if someone can explain the Het percentages to me.
I get if a visual was breed to a normal you would get 100% right?

I have heard of 33%, 50%, 66% and 100%. I am just trying to make sure I understand correctly.
Thanks
Nichole

visual X normal = 100% hets
visual X het = visuals and 100% hets
Het X het = visuals and 66% hets
het X non het = 50% hets
anything else in my opinion is a normal until a parent is proven as a het or homozygous.

What about if one parent is visible but gives you a 66%? I saw that some where in an ad and it didn't seem right to me.

Thank you for breaking it down.

I have a clown male and everything he breeds will be a 100% het, normals and morphs.

If one parent is visual you will always get 100%, as for the rest, what Jerry said = ).

That's what I had thought. I am going to see if I can find the ad real quick.

Never mind. I can't find it. =(

So is there a genetic het table for future breeding? Like a genetic wizard?

What if you were to breed two 66% together?
Ideally I guess you would want 100% hets if you get a het or at least a 66%.

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Originally Posted by mebigbadbrat

What if you were to breed two 66% together?
Ideally I guess you would want 100% hets if you get a het or at least a 66%.

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If the two 66% snakes hatch a visual, then both become 100% hets.
But the chances are pretty slim. If you wanted to prove a 66% het, then it would be best to breed it to a visual. That way, all the babies are guaranteed to be at least 100% if none of them proved out.


But I wouldn't even bother buying a 66% het, unless they visually show some promising traits that the gene is there. (i.e. rail road track markings or ringers on het pieds. And many het clowns have a 'look' to them that isn't the norm)

Overall, it's just best to buy 100% hets or visuals. There's no guessing game or poor odds that way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mebigbadbrat

That's what I had thought. I am going to see if I can find the ad real quick.

Never mind. I can't find it. =(

So is there a genetic het table for future breeding? Like a genetic wizard?

What if you were to breed two 66% together?
Ideally I guess you would want 100% hets if you get a het or at least a 66%.

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That would get very messy, besides the normal factors, when dealing with pos hets parents that don't prove out, another factor to add is the number of eggs laid, it a very variable thing, that in the end, really doesn't mean much. Your not going to be selling babies as 12% pos hets...

when dealing with expensive recessive morphs, you can see 33% and 25% being sold. 33% comes from a 66% het parent bred to a normal and a 25% comes from a 50% het parent bred to a normal. I doubt you will see it ball python world, unless we get a game changing recessive.

However you can turn on pos het ouput and it will tell you what % the babies will be when dealing with recessive het pairings.
http://www.owalreptiles.com/genetics.php

example...

Male:	Het Lavender Albino, Het Piebald
Female:	Het Lavender Albino, Het Piebald
Percent	Fraction	Traits
6.25%	1/16	Dreamsicle
18.75%	3/16	Lavender Albino, 66% Possible Het Piebald
18.75%	3/16	Piebald, 66% Possible Het Lavender Albino
56.25%	9/16	66% Possible Het Piebald, 66% Possible Het Lavender Albino
View Results Page

Hmm. Here is what I am looking at: I currently have an albino (visible) male who I want to get a pied (visible) female for. I have found an excellent priced pied girl with low-med white who I love at 400-500 grams.

If I breed these two together, I will get the double het 100% albino and pied. Then this is where I am iffy. I could keep a male and female 100% het albino/pied to breed later on to try for that 1/16 chance of an albino pied but if I were to purchase a visible pied het albino or an albino het pied, then the chances are better. I mean it would take a few years to do either way.

Both the 400 gram pied and my albino could probably go next year. So maybe 3 years to 4 years to do if everything goes as planned. What do you guys think?

I think a 400 gram female won't go next year

Sorry. I mis-wrote. She is 500 grams. I was told she should but I know pieds are also known to be iffy feeders. I haven't purchased the pied but am thinking about it.

When ball python morphs where more expensive there was some slight interest in the possible possible hets (anything under 50%). Actually it was only certain people, I find that you are either a glass half full person or a half empty (either excited about the possibility of proving a possible het or fearful of the possibility it doesn't prove). Being an extra generation removed from a known het is a significant difference because even though you know out of a large sample of say offspring from different 50% hets that 25% of them will be het but for each individual they are either 0% or 50% depending on if the 50% parent hit or not.

Now days I'm thinking I should stop mentioning possible het percentages at all. I've run into lots of people who don't seem to understand and keep thinking it's a 100% het. And it honestly seems like some people would pay more for an animal that doesn't confuse them (maybe as soon as they hear "possible" they start thinking they are getting ripped off?).

Anyway, I still like possible hets and have proven three 25% chance het pied girls and a 33% chance but with pied you can cheat because it's simi co-dominant. In several cases the male was also 50% chance so I hit on what most would consider a ridiculous 50% het X 25% het breeding. But my thinking is the only time you know for sure you will not hit is if you don't try. I did prove a 33% chance het caramel this year with no indicators I know of. Am holding back a pied girl that is 25% chance het albino and 12.5% chance het VPI axanthic and two of her brothers just for the heck of it. Not really expecting to produce a snow pied but at least it's possible.

Randy,

I like how you think. I am hoping to get my pied girl this weekend. I am very excited! If I hit the odds with a female from her and my albino, then I hit the odds, if not oh well. At least I am trying. =) This is the first year that I have really considered breeding ball pythons. I love my two and think it would be fun to see what comes out.

Thanks
Nichole

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Originally Posted by Sama

If one parent is visual you will always get 100%, as for the rest, what Jerry said = ).

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not true, this is where a lot of breeders make mistakes. I just asked this question to V.P.I. and tracy responded to me confirming what I'm going to post below.

example: say you have a normal female that was breed to a spider. she becomes gravid and has a good clutch of eggs. the next year you breed that female to a clown male. she again becomes gravid and has a clutch of eggs. she can still retain sperm from the spider even tho she had a clutch of eggs between the 2 breedings. this is why you should only get hets from someone that knows what they're doing. many mistakes made with hets. and not on purpose, just not knowing. this is why all my recessive males have females that's only breed to them. if I breed a recessive male to a female that can be in question cause of a breeding. I hold it ALL back. I could get into this even farther where even how I breed my recessive that you still need genetic paper work on a het. this is a perfect example of buyer beware.

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Originally Posted by lovepig78

I think a 400 gram female won't go next year

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Hmmm. Honestly, if she's 500 grams, it depends entirely on what she does this winter. If she eats this winter, you can probably get her up to 1200-1300 grams by this time next year. If she's that bit by November, she'll eat her way up to 1600 grams by the time she lays in the spring. If she decides to stop eating, or skates by on a mouse a month like my super mojave did, she might even lose weight. And then she won't be breeding size by next winter.

If I had to put money down I wouldn't bet on her being over 1000 grams this time next year. But I wouldn't have bet on my pastel two years ago, either? And she gave me 6 eggs this summer. If really depends so much on what they decide to do their 2nd winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by don15681

not true, this is where a lot of breeders make mistakes. I just asked this question to V.P.I. and tracy responded to me confirming what I'm going to post below.

example: say you have a normal female that was breed to a spider. she becomes gravid and has a good clutch of eggs. the next year you breed that female to a clown male. she again becomes gravid and has a clutch of eggs. she can still retain sperm from the spider even tho she had a clutch of eggs between the 2 breedings. this is why you should only get hets from someone that knows what they're doing. many mistakes made with hets. and not on purpose, just not knowing. this is why all my recessive males have females that's only breed to them. if I breed a recessive male to a female that can be in question cause of a breeding. I hold it ALL back. I could get into this even farther where even how I breed my recessive that you still need genetic paper work on a het. this is a perfect example of buyer beware.

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Oh, that's crazy. I wonder how often that happens, that a female fertilizes an egg with sperm from a pairing the year before?

...but I gotta say, the vast majority of the mistakes I see people making with hets and possibles have more to do with just not understanding the math, even for virgin pairings. Or maybe not even really understanding what possibles are...