Okay, I sort of Jumped the Ball on this one..

So a few days ago I was certain that I was going to get a glass tank (until I realized how much more work goes into glass vs. tubs). So I ended up getting a 28qt. container from my local Home Depot and have a U.T.H on one side with an electronic ther.+hydro. attached to a rheostat. Oh and I did cut holes into it and have two houses- one on each side and have aspen substrate. I pretty much followed the Tub Set Up Provided Here.

So the real story here is, well...I got too excited and ended up getting the snake today as well (I'm not too proud of myself). I ended up getting one from PetsMart (...I know.) and I put him in the enclosure and he went into one of the houses almost right away and seems to be doing good.

Though I am waiting for my temps. to adjust (its currently at 91 F on the basking side and 41% Hum.).

I was given the care sheet (which documents when he ate/when he didn't) and apparently he hasn't ate for 8 weeks. Should I be concerned?
How long should I wait before I try and feed? Should I help feed? Or am I being paranoid? Help? (Any is greatly appreciated) I will include a picture because...well I'm a proud parent now!

http://i50.tinypic.com/2wf6cf4.jpg
(this is his/her very first official picture)

8 weeks! Thats poor baby only looks about that old. Hope you get some food in him fast! Give him a week with no handeling and then try to offer food :)

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ah okay, will do (it will be soo hard not to hold him for a whole week) lol.

Also, the humidity seems to keep lowering. I had it at 41% and now its down to 40% am I doing something wrong? I have some sphagnum moss in there that I sprayed down to help..

Just spray down the tub 2-3x daily. You may just have too many holes in the tub. I would be mostly concerned with getting the temps right. Once your temps are right, give your new baby a week and then feed him. Once's he's eaten three time (even if that takes 2 months), then you can hold him. I know it's hard, but try to resist! Give him peace and try not to pester him. He may not have eaten those 8 weeks because he was kept in improper conditions. Hopefully he'll bounce right back for you! Once he starts eating, you can feed him every 5-7 days to get him back to a healthy weight. Also, be prepared, but he may not want to take frozen right away. You can try it, but also be on the lookout for who might offer live feeders in the case that you need to feed him live for a few feedings until you can switch him. Good luck! I rescued a very skinny ball python back in July (she was smaller than your guy) so if you have any questions, just let me know! My girl started out at 44g and is now 251g as of today!

OP what are your cool side temps and ambient air temps air temps are the hard one with tubs they are just thin plastic and they rarely hold more than a few degrees over room temps. Ideally they should be in the 77-85 range. I first started with a tub and switched to a tank as it is easier to keep ambient temps in a 'normal' or cooler room I'd rather a poor shed here and there than too cool.

@kitedemon: The basking side is at 93-95 degrees and the cooler side I have at 73 degrees. The humidity is at 43- 90% (43% humid under the rock house on the basking side and 90% humid on the cool side). I might have gone a little overboard with the spraying...
Also I thought I'd mention that the room I have him in gets really hot, so I don't think keeping the temp. up should be a problem. I might just switch to glass tank if I do find that I get too much trouble with the tub set up.

@snakehobbyist: Oh man, I thought a week was bad! But I've prepared myself not to hold him/her until after three feedings though, thanks for the info! For the most part the temperature seems to be okay now (goes between 90-96 degrees) and after sticking a second therm+hydro combo on the opposite side of the UTH (on the cool side of the tub), apparently I've been over spraying T-T so humidity is a bit high atm (its currently at 90%). You mentioned in your last post that humidity isn't too big of an issue as long as the temperatures are right- is this overall or just for now since I just brought him/her home? I also have a place Im planning on picking up some live food for him/her to eat once the week has passed (I've watched enough yt videos to prepare me lol)

First off, Congrats! Secondly, that poor little guy looks to be a hatchling. I wonder if he had ever eaten. Definately make sure your temps are spot on, and that hides are snug and dark. Then give him a week to settle in, then offer food. I always make sure they have eaten 3-4 times for me before I start to begin handling. It's hard, but better for the snake to let them settle in and adjust! Welcome to the wonderful world of ball pythons!

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Someone got excited and jumped the gun because the Ball Pythons were on sale for 39.99$. Hope you learn fast. Offer food after one week. If after two offerings the snake still doesn't eat. I would take it back to PetsMart and ask for another one that has eaten. Read the feeding chart that they are required to give you. Keep your receipt and make sure it's within the 14 day guarantee. By then they should have received another shipment. Good Luck

@DrDooLittle: I don't think he's eaten since he's hatched either. I've been reading that some hatchlings do this- that its fairly common? (or, at least not uncommon).

@TheSnakeGuy: Ahh you're good lol. I'm trying to soak up anything/everything I could (this forum is suchh a help btw). Would you suggest for me to try offering live food in a week? They did have another guy there that looked more plump, but if I could- I want to keep the one I have :]
Do you think if he doesn't eat after a week from now that I should necessarily exchange him?

Humidity should be around 50% all the time, but I see the most important issue now is your new snake eating, not necessarily how humid it is. Once he's eating we'll, then focus on the humidity. If he's in shed, that's a whole other issue. In that case, you want the humidity to be 70% or a little higher or else your BP won't shed right.

73º on the cool side is too cool with ambients this low it is possible the snake simply will not eat as it is questionable if it can get core temps warm enough to digest its food. Humidity isn't a huge problem until it hits 30% so at 40% I'd not be concerned. Your cool /ambient temps NEED to be addressed typically most suggest 77º as the low end and some 75º but 73º is definitely very cool.

Many thermometers have a potential error the average is +/-2ºF I would always assume that if it is possible it is actually out this could mean that 73º is actually 71º (also why I don't like seeing 75º because 75º could be 73º too cool)

You need to address the cool end temps! Most like to use 80º as a correct cool end. Little snakes often do better with cooler temps but not too cool!!

Welcome and Congrats on the new snake.

1) First order of business should be getting the correct temps. You NEED a thermostat to properly regulate your heat pad. Dimmers/rheostata are not reliable enough. If your room temp changes, your temps will be wrong. For example, if the room temp gets higher, the heat pad will get hotter too unless you constantly adjust the dimmer/rheostat at all times. A thermostat allows the heat pad to stay within a set temp range even if the room warmed up or cools a little.

Babies do well when the hotside is 88-90. Cool side should be 80. For this, you may have to heat up the room itself as the cool end is ambient temps.

2) feed live mouse hoppers to jump start a feeding response. If the snake has 3 successful consecutive feeding sessions, try a rat pup if you want to get your snake feeding on rats.3

3) Try using a different substrate for humidity. Coco husk or cypress mulch retain humidity really well. A larger water bowl over the hot side works too. Larger surface area will have more evaporation.

4) most babies do well in smaller enclosures(6-15qt). So make sure yours is really cluttered. Large spaces can stress a baby easily.

I have to be honest. I wouldn't have bought that snake if I knew it wasn't an established feeder.

Good luck and keep us updated.

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I hate to say it but yes, if you offer food twice and he still hasn't eaten by day 13 from purchase. Take him back to PetsMart. Say he hasn't eaten and you don't want to risk losing him, and you want an exchange. Ask for an explanation of the available feeding chart. I hope he does eat for you though. Good luck

@kitedemon: Since the UTH doesn't really reach the other side of the tub enough to keep it at the 77º it should be at, I think I'm just going to put a smaller UTH up to solve the problem. That should be fine right?


@satomi325: I do plan on upgrading to a thermostat when I can. The rheostat is just temporary- in fact I've been eying this one, it seems to be pretty good. Thanks for the tips, I will def. be using your suggestions. Also, I did try and have the tub as cluttered as possible. I have the two houses, dish in the middle and a branch that takes up space) I also have moss covering up any extra space.

Another question I have:
Should the whole tub feel warm when I open the top up? (Er I should say, when I stick my hand in the tub, should it feel warm?) At night, my room tends to get colder (plus winter is coming) and I'm worried the tub might get cold as the room gets colder but I'm afraid to turn up the uth to any more that 97º as I've read that snakes will/can burn themselves. Any suggestions?

None of the temps matter if you can't keep the ambient temp warm. Even if you put up an UTH on the cold side, you need the ambient temp to be above 75*. If your room is cool at night, your enclosure will be cool at night. Try using a ceramic heat emitter to bump up that ambient temp. if you do decide to use the other UTH, make sure to get another thermostat for that one as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luvepriscilla

this one,

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For not too much more you can get one if these, and they are a thousand times better.
http://spyderrobotics.com/

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Everyone has offered very good advice thus far. I know it was mentioned that you should try feeding a live hopper mouse in a week...and that is exactly what I wanted to say. Petsmart almost certainly only tried to feed him or her frozen, and that could be why he or she refused. Try a live hopper mouse in a week and see what happens. :)

Congrats on your new baby!

Remember a uth needs to be controlled so a second is two t-stats or a dual. But you still need to control the ambient temps. This is very difficult with tubs they don't have much for options. The easiest is just heat the room to 77º then the small gain from your existing UTH will likely bump it to the 78-80º range. there are other options just not as easy.

I wanted to come back on here and do an update for you guys.
I ended up returning the snake before 14 day guarantee was up because he didn't eat :/
I decided not to do an exchange because I got a little overwhelmed with this one. Decided I should wait a while before getting a new one..which I am totally happy I did because I was able to give myself more time to fix the whole heating issue I was having.
I ended up getting a CHE and the ambient temps have been good (80-85 = cool side and 90-95 = basking) and as far as the humidity goes, I've been keeping it around 40-50%. Wanted to say big "THANK YOU" to all of you for helping with my situation :]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luvepriscilla

I wanted to come back on here and do an update for you guys.
I ended up returning the snake before 14 day guarantee was up because he didn't eat :/
I decided not to do an exchange because I got a little overwhelmed with this one. Decided I should wait a while before getting a new one..which I am totally happy I did because I was able to give myself more time to fix the whole heating issue I was having.
I ended up getting a CHE and the ambient temps have been good (80-85 = cool side and 90-95 = basking) and as far as the humidity goes, I've been keeping it around 40-50%. Wanted to say big "THANK YOU" to all of you for helping with my situation :]

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A heads up on your basking spot....95 is way too hot....88-90 is really where you want that basking spot to be....at least for BPs

Thanks, will def. turn that down :]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

A heads up on your basking spot....95 is way too hot....

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:confusd::confusd::confusd:
No its not, you just want to make sure it doesnt get over 95 for an extended period of time. If you are still on the dimmer you will want to run hotter temps because it will not bump up if the room cools during the winter months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

:confusd::confusd::confusd:
No its not, you just want to make sure it doesnt get over 95 for an extended period of time. If you are still on the dimmer you will want to run hotter temps because it will not bump up if the room cools during the winter months.

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Okay...wait- so its not? From what I'm reading in me BP Book (The Ball Python Manual and the care sheet they provide on this site for BPs) it seems that the basking temp. should be 90-95 (care sheet states around 90).
So should I still lower it or should I keep it around 90-95 like I've had it at?
BTW I am still on the dimmer.

Wait a minute.. Are you using a 28 qt plastic container?? You can't use a CHE with that.. That's just plain dangerous. For a plastic tub you need an under tank heater on a proper thermostat like a herpstat. In your first post you mentioned a 28 qt container.. You could melt the plastic.

I do have a UTH on one side of the tub (yes, its the 28 qt plastic container) but I was having issues keeping the ambient temp. up, so I got a CHE for it and it worked great. Have had it up for over a week without issues. I was keeping an eye out to make sure it wouldn't be a problem and I haven't seen one so far. Its currently about 1/2" away from the actual tub.

If it was melting his tub that problem would've been fixed in that day. And we would've heard about it, lol. I'm glad you decided to return the snake. For your next purchase go through a breeder. Even small hobby breeders are better and the prices are better since breeders don't try to make real profit from normals.
It's typically better all around because they can usually tell you the sex of the animal, how many times it's fed/shed, and you'll be more sure of it's general health.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by luvepriscilla

So should I still lower it or should I keep it around 90-95 like I've had it at?

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Yes.
Also, a CHE that close to a tub may turn into a problem.

CHE's are dangerous when used with plastic tubs, I hope you have no cats, dogs, or children ;)

A 28 qt tub will hold good humidity without spraying, I bet your hygrometer is not reading the humidity well.
95 degree hot spot is a touch high but do-able, I try for 92ish but 95 won't hurt.

The least you want to use is a thermostat like this...http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

There is clearly lots of debate on temps the problem I see with the top end is what if your thermometer is not accurate most inexpensive digital units have specs that claim it will be at least 2º of accurate over or under 95+2=97 and everybody will agree this is too warm. My suggestion is most say 90º so not hotter than 92º if you do not have a known accurate thermometer. I personally use 90º. The CHEs get very hot you should insure it cannot get the tub too hot of fall. Tubs suck in cool rooms for this reason.

*Whoa*
Didn't expect to get so much feedback! XD

So to get back to everyone:
@TheSnakeGuy: LOL yes, you already know me. Aand thanks for the info. buut... well I actually ended up going to Petco (okay, don't hate me for that one) when they had them on sale for like $40 on black friday. Though this time I made sure to pay more attention to which I got and he/she seems very healthy :]

@PitOnTheProwl: Yeah, I figured that much but I've had it on there for a over a week and I haven't had any issues yet. I do check on it daily of course. If I run into any issues, I am def. going to see what I can do.

@snakesRkewl: I have the snake in my room so its safe there (no children, dogs and no cats in the house/room either). I have since lowered the high temp. to 90-93°'s. Since the rheostat works, Ill probably be using it longer. Thanks for the link though! Will be looking into those.

@kitedemon: Makes sense about it [possibly] being off. Decided to take the advice given, and lowered the temp down. The highest its gotten since then is 93°'s :] As mentioned, I have been keeping on eye on it and check the tub daily to make sure it doesn't cause problems. Since aquariums are harder to keep hot in general, it would really not be an option for me seeing as to how my room gets so cold at night. Since I've set up the CHE, the temps. seem to be almost perfect.


Had another question for you:
I was looking at me snake through the tub and it was (or seemed like) it was trying to get out. Feel like it might be hungry. Should I try to feed it 2x/week? Or just keep it to its 1/week schedule?

I would actually disagree with tanks not holding heat as well when was the last time you saw a coke bottle as a coffee mug? 1/4 inch glass is a better insulator than 1/16 plastic (PP at that) they also have far more flexible heating options basically ever method used in reptile keeping can be employed to heat a tank over only some for tubs. I would have concerns about the CHE at the very least make sure it is caged this may prevent a fire if it gets knocked over.

My input:

CHE + Plastic tub is dangerous but can be executed safely I guess. You need it mounted securely to a stand that can't tip over by any force that exists in your room (pets, children, wind, temp change). These things ALWAYS find a way to fall down and if it falls on plastic, you're going to have a dead pet at a minimum and a burnt down house at a maximum. I've had reptile pets for my whole life and can think of at least 5 occasions where I thought a light or heater was mounted securely and it wasn't. Luckily none of those events ended tragically. Please be careful!

I can't speak for PetSmart, but when I bought my first BP at Petco, they told me they only feed frozen once they hit the store and do not do live feedings. I don't know if this changes on a store by store basis based on what the employees are comfortable with or if they simply don't want to stock the small sized rodents they would need to feed them. I am thinking they often haven't eaten in so long because they're tossed in a separate container with a half frozen rodent and left for 15 minutes under flourescent lights in a stock room to eat it. Dark + live mouse hopper should get most snakes eating IMO.

Good luck!

@MrLang: Thanks for the concern. I have been keeping an eye on the tub and I haven't had any issues with it melting. Lamp is on the side of the tub so there are no worries of it falling & burning it. Snake took its scheduled meal with no hesitation (whoop, I'm still overly-happy about that).

@kitedemon: From the information I've read on the subject, glass aquariums are not recommended because of the heat issue and because of humidity issues. Though your point does make sense but the tub has been working perfectly for me so far, so I'm just going to keep this set up. If it ain't broke, why fix it right? lol Appreciate the insight.